4 ms·

If you know English, the loanwords become immediately accesible. Also Japanese dictionaries could be easier to check, since you just need to know the pronunciat

If you know English, the loanwords become immediately accesible. Also Japanese dictionaries could be easier to check, since you just need to know the pronunciation. Your conception on the writing systems is quite weird, consistency (if any) is the same, I would say. I do not get what you mean by characters being "traditional" or not. Chinese loanwords are more garbled, with different methods of assigning them random chinese characters. And the Japanese use Latin characters to mark pronunciations also, minus the tone markings. (Let me introduce you to -- bopomofo)

azernik 9y ago
I'm talking about the Chinese loanwords; I agree, the English and generally European loanwords are written phonetically and are pronounced consistently.
jpatokal 9y ago
English loanwords are only a tiny part of either language. The parent was pointing out that in Chinese 生 is always sheng, while in Japanese it can be any of sei, shou, san, nama, ikiru, ikeru, ikasu, umu and 50-odd more readings depending on context. https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E7%94%9F https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E7%94%9F
rangibaby 9y ago
> If you know English, the loanwords become immediately accesible. That's a common misconception (on the level of "katakana is for loan words"): I switched my televi off and rode my autobike from my mansion to the cleaning to pick up my Y shirt because my car's front glass broke. On the way home I stopped at the conveni. Televi: TV Autobike: motorcycle Mansion: apartment Cleaning: dry cleaning Front glass: windshield Conveni: Conveni-ence store > Chinese loanwords are more garbled, with different methods of assigning them random chinese characters. This was standard in Japanese too (ateji). It is more common now to just make a loanword, but if someone doesn't learn them they may be confused about why Japanese abbreviate America as "rice". 米 US from 亜米利加 A ME RI KA (亜 is for Asia) eg 米軍 (US military) or 米ドル (US dollar)
- Manishearth 9y ago
  IIRC 米国 (mi guo / "rice country") is used in Taiwan as well. The other Chinese word for America (美国 / mei guo / "beautiful country") is also a phonetic thing. (I used to think 美国 was descriptive since it didn't sound phonetic, until I came across 米国 and was confused as to why anyone would describe the US as "rice country", and then I learned that both were phonetic, but for the "me" in "america")
- Dylan16807 9y ago
  You call it a misconception and then post an example that's extremely easy to understand? I'm confused.
stordoff 9y ago
> If you know English, the loanwords become immediately accesible. Bit of a stretch IMO - the pronunciation and usage can still often be different enough to trip you up, especially when you consider there are non-English loanwords on occasion (e.g. playing Persona 5, it took me far too long to realise that ルブラン, which I naively transliterated as ruburan, was actually the French "Le Blanc").

azernik 9y ago

I'm talking about the Chinese loanwords; I agree, the English and generally European loanwords are written phonetically and are pronounced consistently.

jpatokal 9y ago

English loanwords are only a tiny part of either language. The parent was pointing out that in Chinese 生 is always sheng, while in Japanese it can be any of sei, shou, san, nama, ikiru, ikeru, ikasu, umu and 50-odd more readings depending on context. https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E7%94%9F https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E7%94%9F

rangibaby 9y ago

> If you know English, the loanwords become immediately accesible. That's a common misconception (on the level of "katakana is for loan words"): I switched my televi off and rode my autobike from my mansion to the cleaning to pick up my Y shirt because my car's front glass broke. On the way home I stopped at the conveni. Televi: TV Autobike: motorcycle Mansion: apartment Cleaning: dry cleaning Front glass: windshield Conveni: Conveni-ence store > Chinese loanwords are more garbled, with different methods of assigning them random chinese characters. This was standard in Japanese too (ateji). It is more common now to just make a loanword, but if someone doesn't learn them they may be confused about why Japanese abbreviate America as "rice". 米 US from 亜米利加 A ME RI KA (亜 is for Asia) eg 米軍 (US military) or 米ドル (US dollar)

Manishearth 9y ago
IIRC 米国 (mi guo / "rice country") is used in Taiwan as well. The other Chinese word for America (美国 / mei guo / "beautiful country") is also a phonetic thing. (I used to think 美国 was descriptive since it didn't sound phonetic, until I came across 米国 and was confused as to why anyone would describe the US as "rice country", and then I learned that both were phonetic, but for the "me" in "america")
Dylan16807 9y ago
You call it a misconception and then post an example that's extremely easy to understand? I'm confused.

stordoff 9y ago

> If you know English, the loanwords become immediately accesible. Bit of a stretch IMO - the pronunciation and usage can still often be different enough to trip you up, especially when you consider there are non-English loanwords on occasion (e.g. playing Persona 5, it took me far too long to realise that ルブラン, which I naively transliterated as ruburan, was actually the French "Le Blanc").