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I think part of the loyalty numbers for iPhone users is the substantial investment they make in other Apple hardware, software, and App Store apps. Unfortunate

by byoung2 16y ago

I think part of the loyalty numbers for iPhone users is the substantial investment they make in other Apple hardware, software, and App Store apps. Unfortunately, I don't have any hard data to back this up, but I imagine a large percentage of iPhone users have at least one other piece of Apple hardware, such as a Mac, iPad, iPod Touch, etc., that works seamlessly alongside the iPhone and iTunes. That makes it tougher to break away from the iPhone. My coworker is one such example. He has an iPhone, a Macbook, and a Mac Mini. He loves the fact that iTunes ties them all together, and wouldn't get a different phone because of it. Android doesn't have that kind of integration, simply because there isn't that tight integration. For example, my girlfriend and I both have Android phones, but everything else we have is Microsoft (2 laptops on XP and Vista, a media center PC and a Viliv S5 tablet on Windows 7, and an XBox 360). If Google could get all of those other devices dependent on Google software like Apple does with iTunes, they'd have a shot at keeping people loyal. You'll also notice that Microsoft missed a big opportunity here. In addition to all of that Microsoft hardware, we used to both have Windows Mobile phones, but there was nothing to tie them all together like iTunes. I would have thought something like XBox Live Marketplace could have worked (e.g. as a central place to buy content for all my devices, share contacts and data, etc.), but Microsoft never executed. Maybe with Windows Phone 7 they will...

axod 16y ago
Google showcased a ton of this at Google I/O. Android ties in really well to their webapps, Google TV (If that succeeds), etc. I remember one example was that you can go to maps.google.com and click on a phone icon, and it just sends it straight to your phone which opens a map in the same place. That's really useful integration. I forget the rest of the examples, but they were all pretty 'wow'. I think iTunes is an example of how not to do things. The iPhone is reliant on iTunes completely. With android, it stands on its own and can integrate with other things when you want it to.
- byoung2 16y ago
  I remember one example was that you can go to maps.google.com and click on a phone icon, and it just sends it straight to your phone which opens a map in the same place That's in Android 2.2...which my phone (HTC Evo 4G) is supposed to be getting today!
  - axod 16y ago
    It's an awesome update. Got mine a few weeks ago now. Wifi access point tethering is awesome.
  - jrockway 16y ago
    You could have had it a few weeks ago, too, as Cyanogen released a stable-ish version for the Evo. (I have been using it since it was released. Getting rid of Sense was well worth the loss of the never-working 4G functionality.)
- dannyr 16y ago
  If you have Android 2.2/Froyo, you can download both the Chrome Extensions & Android app. http://code.google.com/p/chrometophone/downloads/list http://code.google.com/p/chrometophone/downloads/list
  - Griever 16y ago
    Thanks for the link! This is actually really freaking cool.
  - rodh257 16y ago
    if you don't have 2.2, download an app called 'linkpush' sits in chrome and you click it, copies the url and then you can open the app on your phone to open it.
- Samuel_Michon 16y ago
  "The iPhone is reliant on iTunes completely." Syncing of email, events, contacts, bookmarks, and files can all be done over the air, through MobileMe. Purchasing and downloading apps, music, podcasts and movies can also be done from the iPhone itself. You only need to connect to iTunes for activation and software updates.
dlsspy 16y ago
> He has an iPhone, a Macbook, and a Mac Mini. He loves the fact that iTunes ties them all together, and wouldn't get a different phone because of it. I have a macbook, mac mini, iPad and formerly used an iPhone. iTunes was the worst part of that. I simply never plug any of that stuff into my computer unless I really need to get photos or something off of it. That's a usability pain. It doesn't help that I have more music than can fit on my computer, so I also have to hook up an external drive whenever I use iTunes. Every one of my Apple devices has high speed internet service any time I'm using them. I carry a Nexus One now. My calendars, contact lists, etc... are always up to date. Things Android doesn't ship with are alway up-to-date, such as my instapaper offline reading list, twitter, RSS feeds, SMS and voicemail from google voice and other junk. And speaking of integration, the fact that my browser is notified of my SMS and I can respond from there is just awesome. And when I do respond from my browser, the message is marked as read on my phone. Apple is just way behind here.
- old-gregg 16y ago
  +1. I absolutely love my Nexus One (we have iPhones in our family) and I believe that N1 represents the "next generation" of mobile devices, if you will. iPhone is stuck in the past - it requires a computer to be fully operational: a few months ago we went overseas and I wanted to put more stuff on it to listen/watch on the plane, but the people we were staying with only had a Linux laptop - iPhone was as useful as brick. Too bad N1 isn't available anymore: the overall experience/quality you get is incredible, plus absolute carrier independence, user experience and overall value: $60/mo for everything on T-Mobile without a contract, including tethering and cheap international calling via Google Voice, and yeah - proper utilization of Internet, without the need to sync with the most retarded piece of software ever known (iTunes). It even plays music to my stereo via Bluetooth: every time I walk into my apartment and experience the song transition from my headphones to my stereo I think "F&&& yeah, the future is here".
  - WiseWeasel 16y ago
    If the iPhone is stuck in the past, then Android devices are stuck in the future. It would be nice if I could transfer all my data from an Android device directly to my computer without having to send it to any third parties. iTunes may certainly be a bloated, unwieldy piece of software, but it offers some powerful functionality missing from the Android platform. As for A2DP stereo over BlueTooth, the iOS platform now supports that as well, though there may still be some limitations that make it less practical than the Android equivalent (possibly a lack of standardized method for controlling the music playback via BlueTooth - not sure if that's been added yet).
cageface 16y ago
The integration point for Google's stuff is the cloud, not physical devices. I expect this to gradually become a key differentiating factor. Apple is riding the coattails of an old paradigm, and, like Microsoft before them, they're too invested in the money they're making in the old paradigm to make the sacrifices necessary to properly address the new one.
- el_chapitan 16y ago
  While I generally agree with your statement, I think that you may be jumping the gun a tad in terms of the market. The "coattails of the old paradigm" are going to be very important so long as a good network connection isn't guaranteed at all times. Amazing strides have been made to improve connectivity, but we're not there yet. So long as we're not there, you will continue to see the old paradigm.
  - cageface 16y ago
    Certainly timing is crucial in these things. Sun might have actually been a little too far ahead of its time in the 90's, for example. Ultimately though we should be thinking of local storage as cache and not anything more privileged.
- byoung2 16y ago
  The integration point for Google's stuff is the cloud, not physical devices That may be part of the problem with loyalty to Android. If everything is in the cloud, there is nothing tying me to a Google device. When I got my Android phone, I put in my Google account and got all of my contacts from Gmail and Google Voice, etc., but that is nothing new, as I had the same thing on Windows Mobile, and I could get the same thing on iPhone. When you get an iPhone, on the other hand, you have to create an iTunes account, and all the apps you buy, and all the backups for your phone happen there. It makes it easy to get another iPhone, or iPad, or iPod Touch, but it is harder to switch to Android or another platform.
  - billybob 16y ago
    "That may be part of the problem with loyalty to Android. If everything is in the cloud, there is nothing tying me to a Google device." ...Which is exactly why I'd like to get a Google device. And to the loyalty point: you don't HAVE to keep all of your users if you're getting more by the boatload. If the lack of lock-in draws more users than your competitor's lock-in keeps from leaving, hooray! The whole concept of lock-in is misguided. If people are loyal because, even though they DON'T LIKE your product, it's too hard to switch, that means that a lot of your users are out there griping about you. Plus it can't feel good to know that you have to tie your customers down to keep them. At some point, the dislike reaches a critical mass and people start leaving in droves. That's what's happening to BlackBerry now. And it's going to be hard to undo the harm to their reputation that years of frustrated users have done. Whereas if people could have left more easily, they would have seen the problem sooner.
nlanier 16y ago
I have an iMac, two macbooks, and an iPod touch. My phone of choice, however, is a Nexus One. After eating the cost of an unsubsidized unit, I pay sixty dollars a month for 900 minutes and unlimited everything else. SIXTY DOLLARS! If the iPhone experience is anything like the iPod touch experience - and I imagine it is - then I am more than happy with the N1. It does everything the iPhone does and it does most things better as far as I can tell.

by byoung2 16y ago

axod 16y ago

Google showcased a ton of this at Google I/O. Android ties in really well to their webapps, Google TV (If that succeeds), etc. I remember one example was that you can go to maps.google.com and click on a phone icon, and it just sends it straight to your phone which opens a map in the same place. That's really useful integration. I forget the rest of the examples, but they were all pretty 'wow'. I think iTunes is an example of how not to do things. The iPhone is reliant on iTunes completely. With android, it stands on its own and can integrate with other things when you want it to.

byoung2 16y ago
I remember one example was that you can go to maps.google.com and click on a phone icon, and it just sends it straight to your phone which opens a map in the same place That's in Android 2.2...which my phone (HTC Evo 4G) is supposed to be getting today!
- axod 16y ago
  It's an awesome update. Got mine a few weeks ago now. Wifi access point tethering is awesome.
- jrockway 16y ago
  You could have had it a few weeks ago, too, as Cyanogen released a stable-ish version for the Evo. (I have been using it since it was released. Getting rid of Sense was well worth the loss of the never-working 4G functionality.)
dannyr 16y ago
If you have Android 2.2/Froyo, you can download both the Chrome Extensions & Android app. http://code.google.com/p/chrometophone/downloads/list http://code.google.com/p/chrometophone/downloads/list
- Griever 16y ago
  Thanks for the link! This is actually really freaking cool.
- rodh257 16y ago
  if you don't have 2.2, download an app called 'linkpush' sits in chrome and you click it, copies the url and then you can open the app on your phone to open it.
Samuel_Michon 16y ago
"The iPhone is reliant on iTunes completely." Syncing of email, events, contacts, bookmarks, and files can all be done over the air, through MobileMe. Purchasing and downloading apps, music, podcasts and movies can also be done from the iPhone itself. You only need to connect to iTunes for activation and software updates.

dlsspy 16y ago

> He has an iPhone, a Macbook, and a Mac Mini. He loves the fact that iTunes ties them all together, and wouldn't get a different phone because of it. I have a macbook, mac mini, iPad and formerly used an iPhone. iTunes was the worst part of that. I simply never plug any of that stuff into my computer unless I really need to get photos or something off of it. That's a usability pain. It doesn't help that I have more music than can fit on my computer, so I also have to hook up an external drive whenever I use iTunes. Every one of my Apple devices has high speed internet service any time I'm using them. I carry a Nexus One now. My calendars, contact lists, etc... are always up to date. Things Android doesn't ship with are alway up-to-date, such as my instapaper offline reading list, twitter, RSS feeds, SMS and voicemail from google voice and other junk. And speaking of integration, the fact that my browser is notified of my SMS and I can respond from there is just awesome. And when I do respond from my browser, the message is marked as read on my phone. Apple is just way behind here.

old-gregg 16y ago
+1. I absolutely love my Nexus One (we have iPhones in our family) and I believe that N1 represents the "next generation" of mobile devices, if you will. iPhone is stuck in the past - it requires a computer to be fully operational: a few months ago we went overseas and I wanted to put more stuff on it to listen/watch on the plane, but the people we were staying with only had a Linux laptop - iPhone was as useful as brick. Too bad N1 isn't available anymore: the overall experience/quality you get is incredible, plus absolute carrier independence, user experience and overall value: $60/mo for everything on T-Mobile without a contract, including tethering and cheap international calling via Google Voice, and yeah - proper utilization of Internet, without the need to sync with the most retarded piece of software ever known (iTunes). It even plays music to my stereo via Bluetooth: every time I walk into my apartment and experience the song transition from my headphones to my stereo I think "F&&& yeah, the future is here".
- WiseWeasel 16y ago
  If the iPhone is stuck in the past, then Android devices are stuck in the future. It would be nice if I could transfer all my data from an Android device directly to my computer without having to send it to any third parties. iTunes may certainly be a bloated, unwieldy piece of software, but it offers some powerful functionality missing from the Android platform. As for A2DP stereo over BlueTooth, the iOS platform now supports that as well, though there may still be some limitations that make it less practical than the Android equivalent (possibly a lack of standardized method for controlling the music playback via BlueTooth - not sure if that's been added yet).

cageface 16y ago

The integration point for Google's stuff is the cloud, not physical devices. I expect this to gradually become a key differentiating factor. Apple is riding the coattails of an old paradigm, and, like Microsoft before them, they're too invested in the money they're making in the old paradigm to make the sacrifices necessary to properly address the new one.

el_chapitan 16y ago
While I generally agree with your statement, I think that you may be jumping the gun a tad in terms of the market. The "coattails of the old paradigm" are going to be very important so long as a good network connection isn't guaranteed at all times. Amazing strides have been made to improve connectivity, but we're not there yet. So long as we're not there, you will continue to see the old paradigm.
- cageface 16y ago
  Certainly timing is crucial in these things. Sun might have actually been a little too far ahead of its time in the 90's, for example. Ultimately though we should be thinking of local storage as cache and not anything more privileged.
byoung2 16y ago
The integration point for Google's stuff is the cloud, not physical devices That may be part of the problem with loyalty to Android. If everything is in the cloud, there is nothing tying me to a Google device. When I got my Android phone, I put in my Google account and got all of my contacts from Gmail and Google Voice, etc., but that is nothing new, as I had the same thing on Windows Mobile, and I could get the same thing on iPhone. When you get an iPhone, on the other hand, you have to create an iTunes account, and all the apps you buy, and all the backups for your phone happen there. It makes it easy to get another iPhone, or iPad, or iPod Touch, but it is harder to switch to Android or another platform.
- billybob 16y ago
  "That may be part of the problem with loyalty to Android. If everything is in the cloud, there is nothing tying me to a Google device." ...Which is exactly why I'd like to get a Google device. And to the loyalty point: you don't HAVE to keep all of your users if you're getting more by the boatload. If the lack of lock-in draws more users than your competitor's lock-in keeps from leaving, hooray! The whole concept of lock-in is misguided. If people are loyal because, even though they DON'T LIKE your product, it's too hard to switch, that means that a lot of your users are out there griping about you. Plus it can't feel good to know that you have to tie your customers down to keep them. At some point, the dislike reaches a critical mass and people start leaving in droves. That's what's happening to BlackBerry now. And it's going to be hard to undo the harm to their reputation that years of frustrated users have done. Whereas if people could have left more easily, they would have seen the problem sooner.

nlanier 16y ago

I have an iMac, two macbooks, and an iPod touch. My phone of choice, however, is a Nexus One. After eating the cost of an unsubsidized unit, I pay sixty dollars a month for 900 minutes and unlimited everything else. SIXTY DOLLARS! If the iPhone experience is anything like the iPod touch experience - and I imagine it is - then I am more than happy with the N1. It does everything the iPhone does and it does most things better as far as I can tell.