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Hailo only works (in London at least, no idea if it operates elsewhere), with Tfl licensed "Black cab" drivers. You can't just decided to become one of those -

Hailo only works (in London at least, no idea if it operates elsewhere), with Tfl licensed "Black cab" drivers. You can't just decided to become one of those - you need to do years of training to pass the test (known as The Knowledge) in order to obtain your license.

jasode 9y ago
>Tfl licensed [...] do years of training to pass the test Yes, I understand that but aren't those facts orthogonal to the status of "contractor"? If we try to integrate your facts, we would end up with a nonsensical decision tree: Choice 1: study for years to pass test and get Tfl license to _not_ earn minimum wage Choice 2: no test to pass and sign up for Uber to get a minimum wage (because of new ruling) Since the above makes no sense, that's why I believe it just muddies up the discussion about what truly designates somebody a "contractor".
- vidarh 9y ago
  It is a distinction largely because you won't study to become a licensed taxi driver to only drive for Uber (or Hailo or whatever). You are right that it does not automatically make it difference, but in practice it means you're almost always dealing with drivers that are genuinely going to be taking jobs from more than one source (if nothing else by picking up clients kerb-side) because that is the main advantage of their license. Part of the argument in the judgement is that Uber in effect acts as the client, since their rules prevent the driver from interacting with the rider in a way a independent contractor would normally be ble to. That makes it all the more significant when Uber is often the only client. For someone like Hailo this would be less risky as the driver also works for many others most of the time, so even if Hailo was found to be the client rather than the individual riders, they could make the argument that to most their drivers they were just one of many clients. That Uber in "ideal" circumstances could have only signed up drivers that drive for many others too, or that Hailo in theory could have only signed up drivers that were only driving for them, isn't relevant when that's not how things have been in practice. EDIT: I'd very much like to hear arguments instead of downvotes, given that my comment is entirely factual. Downvoting doesn't change any of it.

jasode 9y ago

>Tfl licensed [...] do years of training to pass the test Yes, I understand that but aren't those facts orthogonal to the status of "contractor"? If we try to integrate your facts, we would end up with a nonsensical decision tree: Choice 1: study for years to pass test and get Tfl license to _not_ earn minimum wage Choice 2: no test to pass and sign up for Uber to get a minimum wage (because of new ruling) Since the above makes no sense, that's why I believe it just muddies up the discussion about what truly designates somebody a "contractor".

vidarh 9y ago
It is a distinction largely because you won't study to become a licensed taxi driver to only drive for Uber (or Hailo or whatever). You are right that it does not automatically make it difference, but in practice it means you're almost always dealing with drivers that are genuinely going to be taking jobs from more than one source (if nothing else by picking up clients kerb-side) because that is the main advantage of their license. Part of the argument in the judgement is that Uber in effect acts as the client, since their rules prevent the driver from interacting with the rider in a way a independent contractor would normally be ble to. That makes it all the more significant when Uber is often the only client. For someone like Hailo this would be less risky as the driver also works for many others most of the time, so even if Hailo was found to be the client rather than the individual riders, they could make the argument that to most their drivers they were just one of many clients. That Uber in "ideal" circumstances could have only signed up drivers that drive for many others too, or that Hailo in theory could have only signed up drivers that were only driving for them, isn't relevant when that's not how things have been in practice. EDIT: I'd very much like to hear arguments instead of downvotes, given that my comment is entirely factual. Downvoting doesn't change any of it.