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I have never been more unhappy at a job than when I had my own office. I hardly felt like a part of the team. I barely got to know anyone and communication bet

I have never been more unhappy at a job than when I had my own office. I hardly felt like a part of the team. I barely got to know anyone and communication between developers was horrible. I found it way easier to goof around and not actually do work. Sure, I get distracted more in an open office, but I always thought that was the point. When I overhear my coworker going down a particular rabbit hole that I've already been down, I can save them hours of work. I don't need to wander down a hallway hoping the person is actually there. I can just look up. I don't doubt that some people prefer their own office. I am not one of those people.

superqd 9y ago
> I found it way easier to goof around and not actually do work Why do you need someone to watch you in order to actually do your job? I work at a company where remote work is exceedingly common, almost half the company is remote, and those in the HQ city don't come in to the office everyday. We get amazing amounts of work done.
- RandallBrown 9y ago
  Because everyone is different? I don't need someone watching me to get work done. I just find it easier to focus on work when I'm around other people doing the same thing.
  - valuearb 9y ago
    In a private office you are constantly around people doing the same thing. You have stand ups and meetings with them every day, you pair program when necessary. And you still have a door so you can focus when necessary without your field of vision constantly full of motion. If you have trouble getting things done in a private office environment either you had bad management that would have been worse in an open floor plan, or you are an edge case no work environment should be catered for.
- dzhiurgis 9y ago
  IDK if you've noticed, but everyone in the office tend to sync into tomato intervals. 15 minutes of crunch follows 5 minutes of chatter, repeat
- maxxxxx 9y ago
  Some people are wired for remote work and some aren't. For me it's perfect but I know a lot of people who can't work alone.
  - hackerfromthefu 9y ago
    And different jobs have different needs. For me an open office is often ok, but for best results when I'm doing deep architectural and or complex development work, then peace quiet and many hours without interruption let me enter and maintain my zone of peak focus and concentration and achieve 200%+ results at that kind of work.
bonniemuffin 9y ago
Same. As a grad student I had a lab all to myself for a couple years, and it was lonely and depressing and hard to stay motivated. I'm better-adjusted and higher-functioning when I get to see humans in my day.
- valuearb 9y ago
  A solitary work environment is no better than an open space. Private offices aren’t solitary work environments. You have standup with your team every day and share progress/problems. You pair program together when someone needs help. You meet in conference rooms to hash out tough problems. Collaboration by design is far better than collaboration by accident, because you actually can form deep thoughts in between,
ryandrake 9y ago
I work in a place where we have shared offices: 2 or 3 people sharing a little room. The worst, most depressing times in my career here were when everyone but me either moved to another office or left the company, leaving me by myself in the office. I pretty much couldn't take it after a few days, and would always move my laptop into the break room so to avoid the solitary confinement. I could not take working at home simply due to the lack of human contact. I also would be much worse at my job working remotely due to my particular role's need to walk the floor, have face to face conversations, and participate in meetings. One size does not fit all. Companies should be flexible.
- jrochkind1 9y ago
  I think I could handle a 2-3 person office fine, but I bet that fairly small shared offices on a common hallway would work for you too. I think my fantasy ideal situation is probably like groups of 4-6 small private offices clustered in a L-shape around a shared small conference room. Next to other such groups on a corridor (or even sometimes inter-connected). Would surely be incredibly expensive office space. Oh, let's give each private office a window while we're at it then. :) Writing this reminded me of Christopher Alexander, I bet there's a pattern for this in A Pattern Language. Looking... #146 Flexible Office Space touches it a bit. I think there's probably way more to this than 'open office' vs 'individual offices', tons of diversity within each, well less in 'open office'. But open offices with 8 people vs 20 people vs 100 people are going to be very different, also the square feet per person, and the layout and furniture.
  - valuearb 9y ago
    Putting more than one person in an office defeats the purpose. Anyone who prefers open can have it, but compromising by putting multiple people in an office together saves very little rent over one person offices, but costs way more in productivity.
    - 1123581321 9y ago
      How much rent does it save? I can't find any numbers. I would guess that a 2-person office could be 3/4ths the size of two one-person offices assuming half an office is the non-desk area and that non-desk area can be shared in the middle. The amount of common area shouldn't need to change; assuming that half of the office is composed of common areas, a 2-person office format could be a savings of 10-15%. It's hard for me to say if that's worth pursuing. But again, I'm interested in firmer numbers if you've access to them.
dzhiurgis 9y ago
How do you get distracted in the open office? Someone talking loud or having their phone ringer on? That's just shitty office manners, plus you can grab ANC headphones when you really wanna focus. Which also gives a good signal to not disturb to others. The only distraction I used to get is colleagues asking for help which always felt super nice to do. I'm 3 weeks working from home and yes, it's great not having to slouch to the office every morning with the associated food/coffee/shower/dress-up/transport routine. But I do kinda miss people a bit and procrastination is thru the roof.
- SomeStupidPoint 9y ago
  We don't have even the moderate height cube walls between people -- you're just staring at them all day over screens. I get pretty much constantly distracted if I'm looking at another desk instead of the wall: I have a very hard time ignoring people moving, so looking out into a room full of people means I'm constantly looking around and alert to the environment as people shift, have people stop by, etc. It's not the noise that gets me, even with headphones off, it's the constant motion in my field of view.
- RHSeeger 9y ago
  I can't work with headphones on, and I get distracted by people talking, or by walking by me, or almost anything else. I find it far more effective to work at home. As noted previously, everyone is different. The best experience I had was when I was able to go into the office when I wanted to, but work from home other times. I wound up going in 1-2 times per week to meet with people. It was fantastic.
- valuearb 9y ago
  Someone talking loud or having their ringer on? That’s every open office I’ve ever seen. Headphones to minimize distractions? Distractions aren’t just sounds, but motion. Having people constantly walk into your frame of view is hella distracting. Our super hot graphics designer used to walk to the printer in front of my desk hourly. I did not want to look at her, I tried not to look at her, I couldn’t help looking at her and never was able to get back to my hard problems until she left. Someone needs help? I’m always glad to assist, but in an open office I have to help right then, my train of thought is already lost. I my private office I can check Slack after I’ve solved the hard problem and have some breathing space, and I’m happy to amble to their office for a little pair programming. Distractions are killer not just to productivity, but to quality. Being able to focus on all the possible code paths and solve the problem the best, most optimal way requires quiet time. Even music is a known impediment to deep thinking, which is why headphones are suboptimal, even while they are they best option in a bad open floor plan environment.
justonepost 9y ago
Open offices are great, I agree, but there has to be management flexibility in understanding that employees don't have to be at their desk 40 hours. I like being at my desk around 11-2 or so to network, but I do all my best concentrated work remotely or later at night. The nice thing about open plans is that they bring people together and create a more cooperative atmosphere, but don't force people to be there 8 hours.
- valuearb 9y ago
  You do your best work remotely or late at night when you are alone, but feel open offices are great? Open floor plans don’t create a more cooperative work space, people do. Private offices often lead to better cooperation. Your standup and team meetings are in an open area or a conference room. If someone needs help, up you pair up in an office so you aren’t distracting 20 other people. You need to focus on a tough problem? You don’t have to drive home or wait till everyone leaves. You get to solve it right there and then. 90% or more of what I overhear in an open office has nothing to do with my project, it’s the web or Weber team or Game Of Thrones or last nights game. Even the 10% that’s about my project is rarely useful. It’s QA talking to project management about their smoke tests. The myth of open offices being collaborative is so misleading. It’s like saying you can learn new programming skills by reading random blogs. Sure if you read enough web pages, and get past the cat pix and political screeds and cooking recipes you’ll run into some programming blogs eventually. It will still likely be a while before you find a useful one. Why not design our interactions to promote useful, efficient collaboration. Stand ups are exactly that, a short focused meeting to share what you are doing and problems you have. So is Slack. Having shared lunches. Having team planning sessions. All of those can be done without robbing you of your ability to focus and do your best, most difficult work. Open floor plans rob everyone of any opportunity for that, all to have a bunch of devs with headphones cranked so high they can’t hear to “collaborate” and distracted every time someone walks by their desk.
  - justonepost 9y ago
    Well, I do great work as long as it's going in the right direction for the team. I pull very well at the oars when I have a quiet place, but I tend to start rowing in the wrong direction on a daily basis if I don't get to see how everyone else is rowing. A lot of it is your seniority. Less senior folks can be more remote.
oceanghost 9y ago
For me it was the opposite. When I had an office, people could come in and shoot the shit. I literally, knew the name of every single person in the office, their children's names, and their hobbies. Those personal relationships are really important when there's a tough situation. In an open office, every conversation is public, therefore you simply cannot get to know a person.
valuearb 9y ago
If you didn’t feel part of a team and communication was terrible, an open office can’t fix it. That’s bad leadership and bad management. And how can you overhear a teammate going down a wrong path with headphones on? You don’t need to wander down a hall to see if someone is available with Slack, but wandering down halls is far more healthy than been planted at your desk all day.
- RandallBrown 9y ago
  I never said anything about headphones.
  - valuearb 9y ago
    Headphones are the universal tool for open floor plans, it’s the best way for developers to (try to) focus. The ubiquity of headphone watering in open floor plans makes a lie of the whole idea it helps with collaboration.

superqd 9y ago

> I found it way easier to goof around and not actually do work Why do you need someone to watch you in order to actually do your job? I work at a company where remote work is exceedingly common, almost half the company is remote, and those in the HQ city don't come in to the office everyday. We get amazing amounts of work done.

RandallBrown 9y ago
Because everyone is different? I don't need someone watching me to get work done. I just find it easier to focus on work when I'm around other people doing the same thing.
- valuearb 9y ago
  In a private office you are constantly around people doing the same thing. You have stand ups and meetings with them every day, you pair program when necessary. And you still have a door so you can focus when necessary without your field of vision constantly full of motion. If you have trouble getting things done in a private office environment either you had bad management that would have been worse in an open floor plan, or you are an edge case no work environment should be catered for.
dzhiurgis 9y ago
IDK if you've noticed, but everyone in the office tend to sync into tomato intervals. 15 minutes of crunch follows 5 minutes of chatter, repeat
maxxxxx 9y ago
Some people are wired for remote work and some aren't. For me it's perfect but I know a lot of people who can't work alone.
- hackerfromthefu 9y ago
  And different jobs have different needs. For me an open office is often ok, but for best results when I'm doing deep architectural and or complex development work, then peace quiet and many hours without interruption let me enter and maintain my zone of peak focus and concentration and achieve 200%+ results at that kind of work.

bonniemuffin 9y ago

Same. As a grad student I had a lab all to myself for a couple years, and it was lonely and depressing and hard to stay motivated. I'm better-adjusted and higher-functioning when I get to see humans in my day.

valuearb 9y ago
A solitary work environment is no better than an open space. Private offices aren’t solitary work environments. You have standup with your team every day and share progress/problems. You pair program together when someone needs help. You meet in conference rooms to hash out tough problems. Collaboration by design is far better than collaboration by accident, because you actually can form deep thoughts in between,

ryandrake 9y ago

I work in a place where we have shared offices: 2 or 3 people sharing a little room. The worst, most depressing times in my career here were when everyone but me either moved to another office or left the company, leaving me by myself in the office. I pretty much couldn't take it after a few days, and would always move my laptop into the break room so to avoid the solitary confinement. I could not take working at home simply due to the lack of human contact. I also would be much worse at my job working remotely due to my particular role's need to walk the floor, have face to face conversations, and participate in meetings. One size does not fit all. Companies should be flexible.

jrochkind1 9y ago
I think I could handle a 2-3 person office fine, but I bet that fairly small shared offices on a common hallway would work for you too. I think my fantasy ideal situation is probably like groups of 4-6 small private offices clustered in a L-shape around a shared small conference room. Next to other such groups on a corridor (or even sometimes inter-connected). Would surely be incredibly expensive office space. Oh, let's give each private office a window while we're at it then. :) Writing this reminded me of Christopher Alexander, I bet there's a pattern for this in A Pattern Language. Looking... #146 Flexible Office Space touches it a bit. I think there's probably way more to this than 'open office' vs 'individual offices', tons of diversity within each, well less in 'open office'. But open offices with 8 people vs 20 people vs 100 people are going to be very different, also the square feet per person, and the layout and furniture.
- valuearb 9y ago
  Putting more than one person in an office defeats the purpose. Anyone who prefers open can have it, but compromising by putting multiple people in an office together saves very little rent over one person offices, but costs way more in productivity.
  - 1123581321 9y ago
    How much rent does it save? I can't find any numbers. I would guess that a 2-person office could be 3/4ths the size of two one-person offices assuming half an office is the non-desk area and that non-desk area can be shared in the middle. The amount of common area shouldn't need to change; assuming that half of the office is composed of common areas, a 2-person office format could be a savings of 10-15%. It's hard for me to say if that's worth pursuing. But again, I'm interested in firmer numbers if you've access to them.

dzhiurgis 9y ago

How do you get distracted in the open office? Someone talking loud or having their phone ringer on? That's just shitty office manners, plus you can grab ANC headphones when you really wanna focus. Which also gives a good signal to not disturb to others. The only distraction I used to get is colleagues asking for help which always felt super nice to do. I'm 3 weeks working from home and yes, it's great not having to slouch to the office every morning with the associated food/coffee/shower/dress-up/transport routine. But I do kinda miss people a bit and procrastination is thru the roof.

SomeStupidPoint 9y ago
We don't have even the moderate height cube walls between people -- you're just staring at them all day over screens. I get pretty much constantly distracted if I'm looking at another desk instead of the wall: I have a very hard time ignoring people moving, so looking out into a room full of people means I'm constantly looking around and alert to the environment as people shift, have people stop by, etc. It's not the noise that gets me, even with headphones off, it's the constant motion in my field of view.
RHSeeger 9y ago
I can't work with headphones on, and I get distracted by people talking, or by walking by me, or almost anything else. I find it far more effective to work at home. As noted previously, everyone is different. The best experience I had was when I was able to go into the office when I wanted to, but work from home other times. I wound up going in 1-2 times per week to meet with people. It was fantastic.
valuearb 9y ago
Someone talking loud or having their ringer on? That’s every open office I’ve ever seen. Headphones to minimize distractions? Distractions aren’t just sounds, but motion. Having people constantly walk into your frame of view is hella distracting. Our super hot graphics designer used to walk to the printer in front of my desk hourly. I did not want to look at her, I tried not to look at her, I couldn’t help looking at her and never was able to get back to my hard problems until she left. Someone needs help? I’m always glad to assist, but in an open office I have to help right then, my train of thought is already lost. I my private office I can check Slack after I’ve solved the hard problem and have some breathing space, and I’m happy to amble to their office for a little pair programming. Distractions are killer not just to productivity, but to quality. Being able to focus on all the possible code paths and solve the problem the best, most optimal way requires quiet time. Even music is a known impediment to deep thinking, which is why headphones are suboptimal, even while they are they best option in a bad open floor plan environment.

justonepost 9y ago

Open offices are great, I agree, but there has to be management flexibility in understanding that employees don't have to be at their desk 40 hours. I like being at my desk around 11-2 or so to network, but I do all my best concentrated work remotely or later at night. The nice thing about open plans is that they bring people together and create a more cooperative atmosphere, but don't force people to be there 8 hours.

valuearb 9y ago
You do your best work remotely or late at night when you are alone, but feel open offices are great? Open floor plans don’t create a more cooperative work space, people do. Private offices often lead to better cooperation. Your standup and team meetings are in an open area or a conference room. If someone needs help, up you pair up in an office so you aren’t distracting 20 other people. You need to focus on a tough problem? You don’t have to drive home or wait till everyone leaves. You get to solve it right there and then. 90% or more of what I overhear in an open office has nothing to do with my project, it’s the web or Weber team or Game Of Thrones or last nights game. Even the 10% that’s about my project is rarely useful. It’s QA talking to project management about their smoke tests. The myth of open offices being collaborative is so misleading. It’s like saying you can learn new programming skills by reading random blogs. Sure if you read enough web pages, and get past the cat pix and political screeds and cooking recipes you’ll run into some programming blogs eventually. It will still likely be a while before you find a useful one. Why not design our interactions to promote useful, efficient collaboration. Stand ups are exactly that, a short focused meeting to share what you are doing and problems you have. So is Slack. Having shared lunches. Having team planning sessions. All of those can be done without robbing you of your ability to focus and do your best, most difficult work. Open floor plans rob everyone of any opportunity for that, all to have a bunch of devs with headphones cranked so high they can’t hear to “collaborate” and distracted every time someone walks by their desk.
- justonepost 9y ago
  Well, I do great work as long as it's going in the right direction for the team. I pull very well at the oars when I have a quiet place, but I tend to start rowing in the wrong direction on a daily basis if I don't get to see how everyone else is rowing. A lot of it is your seniority. Less senior folks can be more remote.

oceanghost 9y ago

For me it was the opposite. When I had an office, people could come in and shoot the shit. I literally, knew the name of every single person in the office, their children's names, and their hobbies. Those personal relationships are really important when there's a tough situation. In an open office, every conversation is public, therefore you simply cannot get to know a person.

valuearb 9y ago

If you didn’t feel part of a team and communication was terrible, an open office can’t fix it. That’s bad leadership and bad management. And how can you overhear a teammate going down a wrong path with headphones on? You don’t need to wander down a hall to see if someone is available with Slack, but wandering down halls is far more healthy than been planted at your desk all day.

RandallBrown 9y ago
I never said anything about headphones.
- valuearb 9y ago
  Headphones are the universal tool for open floor plans, it’s the best way for developers to (try to) focus. The ubiquity of headphone watering in open floor plans makes a lie of the whole idea it helps with collaboration.