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It never occurred to me that this could even be possible for such a giant waterfall until I saw this article awhile back. It's really neat to see. And a little

It never occurred to me that this could even be possible for such a giant waterfall until I saw this article awhile back. It's really neat to see. And a little scary we can have that much control over nature sometimes.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
criddell 9y ago
Do we still engage in these big projects? For example, around 1900 the flow of the Chicago River was reversed. I can't imagine a project like that happening today.
- i_cant_speel 9y ago
  It wasn't even supposed to happen back then. They basically just did it before anyone could tell them no.
- burntsushi 9y ago
  They are actually planning to shut off the falls again, soon: https://www.wired.com/2016/01/new-york-is-going-to-turn-off-niagara-falls-heres-how/ https://www.wired.com/2016/01/new-york-is-going-to-turn-off-...
- boomboomsubban 9y ago
  Yes, for example the Chunnel was likely opened in your lifetime.
  - s0rce 9y ago
    Also, the three gorges dam hydroelectric project.
jacquesm 9y ago
Without such control over nature the country where I live would not even exist.
- schoen 9y ago
  It's also the title of a book by John McPhee collecting three journalistic accounts of different attempts to protect human settlements against particular environmental threats ("with varying success", as Wikipedia puts it). Highly recommended!
- rconti 9y ago
  Nederlands?
  - OJFord 9y ago
    To varying extents, any country.
  - jacquesm 9y ago
    Yep. Switch off the pumps and I'll have beach front property (on the 1st floor).
mikeash 9y ago
It always amuses me when I come across the occasional "stupid tourist" story on the internet about Niagara Falls and visitors asking if they turn the falls off at night. It's always presented as, ha ha, idiots don't realize this is a natural phenomenon, not something you can just turn on and off. In fact, they turn it down (but not off) every night so that more electricity can be generated.
- cwal37 9y ago
  Not quite. It's to refill the Lewiston Reservoir (on the American side). The Robert Moses Niagara Power Project runs at a deficit of water during the day once the morning really picks up and through peak hours into the evening. On a slightly longer timescale it also runs at an overall deficit during the workweek, drawing down water throughout the week until electricity use drops on the weekend. At that point it relies significantly less on the reservoir (and more on the forebay) and fills back up. There are also 13 turbine generating units in RMNPP, while Lewiston pumped storage (the reservoir) has 12 much smaller (~1/10th the size) turbines as well. This allows quite a bit of flexibility in terms of output from what is a much larger power plant overall. EDIT: Oh, and the reservoir was built on Native American land, which resulted in a Supreme Court case related to the Federal Power Act (I believe since it was treaty-breaking, can't quite recall) in case anyone is interested in that sort of thing.
  - mikeash 9y ago
    Well, I didn’t say when the extra electricity generation happened! But seriously, thank you for all the additional info, that’s really interesting.
    - cwal37 9y ago
      Haha, no worries, and sorry if that came off as overly pedantic, I work in the broader industry and was still winding down from aggressively-reading-things-about-energy-mode. Glad you found it interesting! One additional tidbit is that they have to keep the water level at the pools downstream of the intakes within 1.5ft +/- the historical mean. There's a bit more leeway than that over time, but they do typically hit the mark. It's quite the operation.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

criddell 9y ago

Do we still engage in these big projects? For example, around 1900 the flow of the Chicago River was reversed. I can't imagine a project like that happening today.

i_cant_speel 9y ago
It wasn't even supposed to happen back then. They basically just did it before anyone could tell them no.
burntsushi 9y ago
They are actually planning to shut off the falls again, soon: https://www.wired.com/2016/01/new-york-is-going-to-turn-off-niagara-falls-heres-how/ https://www.wired.com/2016/01/new-york-is-going-to-turn-off-...
boomboomsubban 9y ago
Yes, for example the Chunnel was likely opened in your lifetime.
- s0rce 9y ago
  Also, the three gorges dam hydroelectric project.

jacquesm 9y ago

Without such control over nature the country where I live would not even exist.

schoen 9y ago
It's also the title of a book by John McPhee collecting three journalistic accounts of different attempts to protect human settlements against particular environmental threats ("with varying success", as Wikipedia puts it). Highly recommended!
rconti 9y ago
Nederlands?
- OJFord 9y ago
  To varying extents, any country.
- jacquesm 9y ago
  Yep. Switch off the pumps and I'll have beach front property (on the 1st floor).

mikeash 9y ago

It always amuses me when I come across the occasional "stupid tourist" story on the internet about Niagara Falls and visitors asking if they turn the falls off at night. It's always presented as, ha ha, idiots don't realize this is a natural phenomenon, not something you can just turn on and off. In fact, they turn it down (but not off) every night so that more electricity can be generated.

cwal37 9y ago
Not quite. It's to refill the Lewiston Reservoir (on the American side). The Robert Moses Niagara Power Project runs at a deficit of water during the day once the morning really picks up and through peak hours into the evening. On a slightly longer timescale it also runs at an overall deficit during the workweek, drawing down water throughout the week until electricity use drops on the weekend. At that point it relies significantly less on the reservoir (and more on the forebay) and fills back up. There are also 13 turbine generating units in RMNPP, while Lewiston pumped storage (the reservoir) has 12 much smaller (~1/10th the size) turbines as well. This allows quite a bit of flexibility in terms of output from what is a much larger power plant overall. EDIT: Oh, and the reservoir was built on Native American land, which resulted in a Supreme Court case related to the Federal Power Act (I believe since it was treaty-breaking, can't quite recall) in case anyone is interested in that sort of thing.
- mikeash 9y ago
  Well, I didn’t say when the extra electricity generation happened! But seriously, thank you for all the additional info, that’s really interesting.
  - cwal37 9y ago
    Haha, no worries, and sorry if that came off as overly pedantic, I work in the broader industry and was still winding down from aggressively-reading-things-about-energy-mode. Glad you found it interesting! One additional tidbit is that they have to keep the water level at the pools downstream of the intakes within 1.5ft +/- the historical mean. There's a bit more leeway than that over time, but they do typically hit the mark. It's quite the operation.