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Entrepreneurship is like one of those carnival games where you throw darts or something. Middle class kids can afford one throw. Most miss. A few hit the targe

• EGreg 9y ago
  The really interesting cases, to me, are the Jan Koums and J K Rowlings of the world.
• osrec 9y ago
  That is a brilliant analogy. I would add that some kids may naturally have a better arm, so success is not solely correlated with number of tries you can afford.
  • BatFastard 9y ago
    And some kids are born with more darts.
    • deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
  • owens99 9y ago
    > I would add that some kids may naturally have a better arm, so success is not solely correlated with number of tries you can afford. This is the opposite of what he's saying.
    • deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
    • richardknop 9y ago
      Indeed. The original poster was saying something more akin some kids getting more shots at the target or able to buy more than 1 dart and try to hit the bullseye many times.
  • i_feel_great 9y ago
    Some rich people can patent the dart board so no one else can throw darts at it.
  • penistives 9y ago
    Exactly. Some kids might be born with physical gifts, like elite sports athletes. I'm sure no matter how hard an average person tries, they will never be at an NBA-level basketball player. Some kids might be born with phenomenal musical talent, or incredibly high IQ. Heck, some kids might be born so they grow up to be extremely attractive and become models or actors. Being born into a wealthy family isn't the only stroke of luck.
• incadenza 9y ago
  Right, and letting everybody see some lucky person win once in a while sort of perpetuates the delusion that it could be you, the guy standing on the sidelines. Ultimately, it's cheaper for whoever owns the tent to let one person win every once in a while then to just let everybody lose. I may be stretching the analogy but yeah.
  • hitekker 9y ago
    I think this analogy has legs; for example, what of the town surrounding the carnival? Does the carnival hold lotteries enthralling the adult villagers who otherwise turn their nose at throwing darts? If nothing else, bread-and-circuses-made-literal is useful for storytelling.
• manigandham 9y ago
  Life isn't fair. We're all born into different means and of course more money allows for more optionality. The "poor kids" have to work harder to save up their money to get their chance, but that's completely possible and is the majority of those who start companies. This article is the typical BS that assumes "entrepreneurs" only do SV startups or want a big exit. The actual reality is that there are millions of small businesses out there, full of hard working entrepreneurs who saved and sacrificed, and are perfectly happy growing modestly and providing for their family. That's the prize that many chase, and many do end up winning.
  • alexasmyths 9y ago
    "This article is the typical BS that assumes "entrepreneurs" only do SV startups or want a big exit." I don't think it assumes that, and I don't think we should just resign to the fact that rich kids get rich.
    • manigandham 9y ago
      So ex-bankers are starting your local bakeries and notaries and hair salons? 10s of millions of small businesses and most of them are started by rich guys? It clearly says "in silicon valley" at the end so yes it's limited to the typical example of VCs and exits. The rich do get richer (up to a point anyway) but what I'm saying is that you don't need to be rich at all to be an entrepreneur, and some of those who start with nothing do go on to become rich as well.
      • uoaei 9y ago
        All startups start small, but not all small businesses are startups. Startups are characterized by fast growth cycles and usually are intended to end in getting acquired or sold. Bakeries and such don't fall under this description, usually.
        • manigandham 9y ago
          Entrepreneurs start businesses. A small fraction of those businesses are SV startups, but the vast majority are not - so this article talking about "entrepreneurs" doesn't apply to the vast majority of them, has no sources for what it claims, and is thus rather useless.
• Kluny 9y ago
  Yup, if you want to hit the big time, you have to try, and try, and try again and again and again, and never give up. This is what I'm repeatedly told. Trying again is expensive though.
• noonespecial 9y ago
  To extend the metaphor even further, sometimes the ones with the money spend so much winning the prize that they could have simply bought it outright.
• Houshalter 9y ago
  Then why are such a high percentage of entrepreneurs immigrants from poor countries? Sure the rich kids have it easier. But it's not that difficult to live cheaply for awhile to pursue a business if you are motivated. It might just be cultural. Rich successful people encourage their children to be successful like they were. It could be genetic. Those immigrants I mentioned go through a fairly difficult and selective process to get into the country. They have higher IQs and conscientiousness than average. Factors which are both fairly heritable, and correlate very well with success in life. Meritocracy rewards the most able and driven. But no one said ability and motivation were distributed fairly.
  • sidlls 9y ago
    What percentage of those entrepreneur immigrants are already well off?
    • deleted 9y ago
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    • HumanDrivenDev 9y ago
      A really, really high percentage. Being born from a poor country doesn't mean you are poor. Even the most impoverished place has an upper class that lives really well - they form the bulk of your immigrants to the first world.
  • tetraodonpuffer 9y ago
    what percentage of people from poor countries manages to emigrate? any correlation between the traits needed to want to emigrate from your poor country and the traits needed for entrepreneurs? any correlation between being able to emigrate in the first place and general genetic advantage (you are not going to emigrate if you have a disability, are chronically ill, were not lucky enough to go to school and learn to read/write/fill the appropriate forms)?
  • llukas 9y ago
    Maybe this comic would help you understand if it is that difficult: http://thewireless.co.nz/articles/the-pencilsword-on-a-plate http://thewireless.co.nz/articles/the-pencilsword-on-a-plate
• stanfordkid 9y ago
  This comment highlights the victim mindset that seems to be more and more common these days... I've been on Hacker News for 6 or 7 years and it is only the past 2 or 3 that the notion that everything should be "fair" has taken such a deep hold. It is one of the major reasons I am starting to lose faith in this country. We have a generation of people that thinks every person can be rich, successful or famous... and if they aren't then they are a victim somehow. Perhaps they are. But the issue I have is that this type of thinking is fundamentally unproductive. The barriers that have been broken have been done so by achieving success despite the odds, and becoming a role model ... not through whining. Equality is only achieved when people obtain power and change things. Power requires being successful and valuable to whatever society exists, not complaining. EDIT: I guess I take issue with the fact that "life" is being compared to a dart game. It's just not the case. You can reduce it down to "throwing darts" ... but that is a very pessimistic way of viewing the world ... and it's quite sad. I've seen so many "rich kids" who were total nut cases and poor kids who were able to overcome the odds through their character. Reducing the human condition down to the amount of wealth is excessively simplistic. I agree that rich kids might get a few percentage points of help (maybe 5-10%) but if you come from a middle class background you can still become a billionaire and sometimes even if you're dirt poor. What other country let's you do that? yes my screenname is "Stanfordkid"... I came from a very poor family and am not some entitled brat. The fact that that was the first thing people pointed out I think speaks to the way in which people are trying to reduce everything down numbers or labels that are in fact, very complex.
  • vernie 9y ago
    All this talk of justice is driving the country straight into the ground!
    • manigandham 9y ago
      Fairness and opportunity != justice.
  • monkmartinez 9y ago
    I just want to point out your user name: Stanfordkid... Ironic? I'll let the readers decide... I agree with you that "complaining" by itself is unproductive and a waste of time. However, it would be super presumptuous to say that the complainant is not doing "something" about it in meatspace. Not that there is a lot to do, which is to say: Realistically, a few people control the overwhelming majority of monetary resources in the present world. Should we contemplate that? I don't. I am content with my status. I can, however, understand others are not. From an objective POV, it is super ridiculous that so few control so much. Does it affect me on a daily basis? Not that I am aware of, so I press on...
• KKKKkkkk1 9y ago
  How many throws did Mark Zuckerberg have? Sergey and Larry? Elon Musk? I'm not saying life is fair, but you shouldn't generalize like this.
  • paul7986 9y ago
    Zuckerberg went to Harvard and his father is a dentist. He was and is a rich kid. Larry Page's parents were renown computer scientists in the 70s and 80s. Thus no doubt they were more then middle class. Now Segrey Im not sure, but if you have one founder that is rich then well... Elon Musk's father was also a computer scientist back in the day. None of the people you mention grew up middle class ... rather the next level above .. either between middle class or flat out rich.
    • Scea91 9y ago
      Are you sure you aren't moving the goal posts of middle class? I would say that dentists and computer scientists still belong perfectly to the middle class.
• Justin_K 9y ago
  I'm just shocked at what this message board has become. All I see now are endless stories and comments on high rent, inequality and politics. Just yesterday tons of people were complaining about how much money a startup was spending on marketing as if development should be the only expense. Not rich? Work smarter - you probably have a much better perspective on what the masses need / use than a rich person does. Convince a money man to invest in your ideas. Rent is too high? Consider the chances your SV startup will make you a millionaire are near 0. You may want to live elsewhere. Don't like your elected officials? Tough shit, 50% of the country does or doesn't. Your boss or management sucks? Chances are they think you suck too. Find a new job you enjoy and are appreciated. Work culture is like dating and not everybody is compatible. Nature and the universe aren't fair. Don't expect anything to be given to you. I just wish this site was about technology and ingenuity, now it just sounds like a bunch of grovelling losers, upset they won't hit a 1M+ active daily users.
  • BadassFractal 9y ago
    The board got diluted with a lot more regular folks vs the super early gang of people centered around YC who were all doers/believers in the startup space. The more regular folks you let in, the more of the usual limiting beliefs you'll see echo chambered here. The people who are actually getting shit done, instead of whining about the world not being fair, will just move to a different discussion space.
    • justin--sane 9y ago
      "Farnsworth, Farrrnsworth! The peasants are in the gardens again, rrrelease the hounds!"
  • justin--sane 9y ago
    > Not rich? Work smarter - you probably have a much better perspective on what the masses need / use than a rich person does. Convince a money man to invest in your ideas. So how many people have the cognitive abilities or the educational background to 'work smarter"? Looking down from the ivory tower telling the factory worker or the sales assistant to "work smarter" to "get rich" is a nasty mix of ignorance and arrogance. For mosylt people the only option to keep their head above the water is to work harder. > Rent is too high? Consider the chances your SV startup will make you a millionaire are near 0. You may want to live elsewhere. Yeah, everyone can move whenever they want. Who cares about family, friends and maybe the job you like. The rent is higher now, so just move where you and people like you belong. > Don't like your elected officials? Tough shit, 50% of the country does or doesn't. Bullshit. While there are countries that run some perverted version of democracy, most developed countries are pretty good building governments with way higher approvals. > Your boss or management sucks? Chances are they think you suck too. Find a new job you enjoy and are appreciated. Work culture is like dating and not everybody is compatible. Yeah, with a job market like the current one you, the employee, have all the power. /s A LOT of people are happy to have a job and just quitting because their boss is a dick? Not gonna happen because not possible. > Nature and the universe aren't fair. Don't expect anything to be given to you. And that's why we give money to the elderly and disabled, make education accessible to everyone, have social welfare, pay doctor's bills for people who cannot afford it and try to counter ghettofication by subsidizing flats in more expensive areas. At least some countries do that, and guess what - those are the ones with the highest living standards for everyone.
• jasonkester 9y ago
  I like this metaphor, with one modification: The "poor kids" working at the carnival get unlimited free throws. Because that's what it's like in Software right now. There has never been an industry before where the market rate is so high for individual contributors, and the real cost of starting a business are so low. Software is a Perfect Storm of near-zero overhead and near-infinite execution leverage as compared to pretty much any other type of business. So sure, you're right that a poor kid working at a Shoe Store can, over the course of his lifetime, open between zero and one shoe stores. But a poor kid who takes his self-taught programming skills and gets a job writing code 40 hours a week can moonlight out several hundred Minimum Viable Products if necessary until something hits big. So yeah, it's darts. But if you throw lots of them, you'll probably hit something.
  • littlestymaar 9y ago
    > There has never been an industry before where the market rate is so high for individual contributors, and the real cost of starting a business are so low. Well you still need to pay your rent, your food, etc.
    • jasonkester 9y ago
      Sounds like you missed the word "moonlighting" in the post you're responding to. You keep your day job writing software and do your entrepreneuring on nights and weekends. Try things out until one of them is matching your day job's income, then quit and go full time. That's what I did. And come to think of it, it's yet another factor to throw into that Perfect Storm I mentioned above, because you can't really moonlight out a brick and mortar store while keeping your day job at another one.
      • littlestymaar 9y ago
        Then you agree their isn't any unlimited free throws, but you get a few free throws with a severe handicap. Glad to see it worked for you despite that handicap !
  • fjsolwmv 9y ago
• vbuwivbiu 9y ago
  this analogy completely breaks-down at the beginning and at the end, as it implies that poor people are somehow running a scam to rip-off the rich! Everyone knows that carnival games are rigged, like casinos. However, it is true that rich people can afford to take more risks (and therefore stand to gain more) for the same amount of hard-work.