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People usually feel (don't think) that it's moral for OTHERS to pay more taxes. They also feel (don't think) that's moral for themselves to pay less. It's call

People usually feel (don't think) that it's moral for OTHERS to pay more taxes. They also feel (don't think) that's moral for themselves to pay less. It's called socialism.

orwin 9y ago
Well, i feel its moral for me to pay all my taxes, and even though i also give money to charity, i don't use this fact to reduce my taxes, because i feel a lot of people need this money way more than me. This is socialism.
- golergka 9y ago
  No, this is either personal choice over your own property, (which is charity), or irrelevant - your feelings over taxes don't matter, you don't get to choose whether to pay the taxes or not. Socialism is forcing your choice on other people's property through the only organization that has monopoly on violence in today's society - government.
  - orwin 9y ago
    But i could choose to pay less taxes, and i don't. Honestly i'm pretty happy with socialism right now, i lived in the bottom 20% for 23 years and still got to go to the hospital to get surgery at 3 y/o, my little brother did not die from his appendicite and my mother breast cancer was detected before it spread too much. I never suffered from malnutrition and access to free education allowed me to get into the top 20% with no debts while attending social gathering and studying in other countries thanks to erasmus. I agree that i don't have the choice on what my taxes will be used for, and this is a problem, but the other choice is to count on charity? to pray that everybody will act like homo economicus and take rationnal decision on how to improve everybody well-being without being greedy and acting like children? Sicilian orphanage is what you get when "charity" is in charge. I'd rather pay taxes and have the state manage that tbh. Now if someday, everybody become smart and decent enough, i would totally agree with you to ditch socialism et start a liberal anarchy.
    - golergka 9y ago
      Let me get this straight - while you "agree" to pay higher taxes, you actually get more from the government that you put in? It seems that your position first and foremost is aligned with your rational self-interest rather than abstract moral values.
      - orwin 9y ago
        Well i actually got more from the government that what i put in, but at this very moment, i certainly give more than what i get, and even with kids in the picture i'd still give more. And even when my overall contribution to my country will be highr than what my whole family got (and it will eventually happen), i'd still be happy to pay my taxes so that other kids can have the same chances i had. I believe in meritocratic society and i don't see how to achieve that without socialism and some taxes until everyone stop being petty, greedy and/or self-centered. Then we can all be libertarian. Finally i'm an utilitarist (well, a negative utilitarist following Popper's definition) so my moral values are not abstract.

People usually feel (don't think) that it's moral for OTHERS to pay more taxes. They also feel (don't think) that's moral for themselves to pay less. It's called socialism.

orwin 9y ago

Well, i feel its moral for me to pay all my taxes, and even though i also give money to charity, i don't use this fact to reduce my taxes, because i feel a lot of people need this money way more than me. This is socialism.

golergka 9y ago
No, this is either personal choice over your own property, (which is charity), or irrelevant - your feelings over taxes don't matter, you don't get to choose whether to pay the taxes or not. Socialism is forcing your choice on other people's property through the only organization that has monopoly on violence in today's society - government.
- orwin 9y ago
  But i could choose to pay less taxes, and i don't. Honestly i'm pretty happy with socialism right now, i lived in the bottom 20% for 23 years and still got to go to the hospital to get surgery at 3 y/o, my little brother did not die from his appendicite and my mother breast cancer was detected before it spread too much. I never suffered from malnutrition and access to free education allowed me to get into the top 20% with no debts while attending social gathering and studying in other countries thanks to erasmus. I agree that i don't have the choice on what my taxes will be used for, and this is a problem, but the other choice is to count on charity? to pray that everybody will act like homo economicus and take rationnal decision on how to improve everybody well-being without being greedy and acting like children? Sicilian orphanage is what you get when "charity" is in charge. I'd rather pay taxes and have the state manage that tbh. Now if someday, everybody become smart and decent enough, i would totally agree with you to ditch socialism et start a liberal anarchy.
  - golergka 9y ago
    Let me get this straight - while you "agree" to pay higher taxes, you actually get more from the government that you put in? It seems that your position first and foremost is aligned with your rational self-interest rather than abstract moral values.
    - orwin 9y ago
      Well i actually got more from the government that what i put in, but at this very moment, i certainly give more than what i get, and even with kids in the picture i'd still give more. And even when my overall contribution to my country will be highr than what my whole family got (and it will eventually happen), i'd still be happy to pay my taxes so that other kids can have the same chances i had. I believe in meritocratic society and i don't see how to achieve that without socialism and some taxes until everyone stop being petty, greedy and/or self-centered. Then we can all be libertarian. Finally i'm an utilitarist (well, a negative utilitarist following Popper's definition) so my moral values are not abstract.