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What Happened to Threadless?
- soniman 9y agoThe article fails to mention that there is a ton of competition and Threadless has been trounced by Redbubble, Society6, Teepublic, etc. Plus, t-shirts alone is not enough to sustain a site. Stickers, iPhone cases, mugs, etc etc. Threadless is a good example of the dangers of premature profitability.
- jasongill 9y ago"premature profitability"? I think it's easy to sit on the outside of a business and judge it smugly, but considering that the estimated net worth of the founder is north of $50mil (https://www.fundera.com/blog/successful-entrepreneurs https://www.fundera.com/blog/successful-entrepreneurs), I don't think he would say that there is anything wrong with their "premature profitability". Maybe there is mismanagement, or poor decisions, or just not staying ahead of trends in the market - but putting millions of dollars into the pockets of the business owners is the intent of all businesses. Knocking that as "premature profitability" seems silly
- soniman 9y agoSociety6 and Redbubble are still losing money but they will also crush Threadless by the time it's over. This is a winner take all marketplace business, not a t-shirt business.
- GVIrish 9y agoYou say that as if there's a guarantee that the upstarts will find a way to be profitable once they've spent several years losing money. The barriers to entry are pretty low in the t-shirt business so it's not like there's some golden goose to be captured after millions of dollars of capital are set on fire.
- soniman 9y agoIt's not a t-shirt business, it's a marketplace where designers sell their designs and the designs are placed on t-shirts, mugs, carpets, stickers, etc. So basically these sites are like eBay but for artists. Like any marketplace business, it takes a long time to build up both sides of the marketplace but once it's in place, it's very hard to compete with.
- jasongill 9y agoIt takes a long time, so might as well be profitable along the way. Think of how many businesses enter a "it takes a long time" industry and run out of runway before they can turn a profit. Good for Threadless for being able to generate profits for the better part of 20 years, even if they didn't achieve world domination. They got rich and had almost no risk
- _puk 9y agoAs with much of this, I can see amazon eating it all [0]. They have the marketplace and the tooling already, just artificially limiting scale. 0: https://merch.amazon.com/landing https://merch.amazon.com/landing
- soniman 9y agoThere has to be an element of cool and fun. These are artists, they want to be where the cool people are . . . and that's not Amazon.
- GVIrish 9y agoLet's say the core business is to put customer designs on various products and sell them in a marketplace. So like Etsy, but instead of the artists making everything, the artist makes the design and the marketplace business produces it. Becoming the number 1 player in that market could be profitable if said company could implement innovations that are difficult to replicate by others. But it's not the type of business where a network effect is going to shut out competitors. Customers will go to where they can get the best balance of price, quality, ease of use, and speed. Spending a lot of VC funding selling dollar bills for 50 cents is not the only strategy, and it risks running out of money before getting to the promised land. Running a profitable business doesn't mean you can't come to be the best in a market segment either. Profit can be reinvested in the business, and decisions can be made based on what makes sense for a sustainable business.
- nathan_long 9y ago> This is a winner take all marketplace business, not a t-shirt business. ...What? Please explain why selling t-shirts online is a business where one winner will take all the market share. Utilities are a natural monopoly. T-shirts are a commodity. There will always be thousands of sites selling them.
- munificent 9y ago> Maybe there is mismanagement, or poor decisions, or just not staying ahead of trends in the market Or perhaps we need to consider the idea that it's actually OK for a company to not live forever. Threadless had a good run, made a lot of money for the employees and made a lot of consumers happy. It's not a failure if they don't continue to do that in perpetuity.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- nicpottier 9y agoI really loved Threadless back in the day and this was an interesting read. While it did a good job of covering what changes Threadless made that ultimately changed the culture around it and led to its fall, it didn't cover the why. Was their model no longer profitable? Were they facing outside competition (and what was that competition doing better?). Did they take money and have to grow big / fast and therefore started selling to big box stores to increase revenues? I don't see any reason why Threadless couldn't still be a profitable business (god forbid a lifestyle business) even today if they had maintained their cachet but maybe I'm missing something.
- foepys 9y agoThere is https://www.qwertee.com https://www.qwertee.com for more "nerd-oriented" stuff. But I never used them, only looked at some designs.
- loopbit 9y agoI have quite a few and I'm happy enough with them. They also have some sizing issues but all it usually mean is that one tshirt will be a bit tighter/looser than other of the same size (the fact that I'm between two sizes doesn't help) but the print quality is decent.
- Cthulhu_ 9y agoThey pivoted to a system where all artists get a chance to make money - and probably moreso than the original prize - while also scaling beyond just one or a couple designs per week. I think there's a lot more potential money in that approach, however it's no longer the Threadless formula. I'd get links shared to Threadless frequently when they had a new fun or cool design, and I think those were so popular because it was always limited availability - one week only, get it now or forever lose it. What they should've done IMO is spin off a secondary company or website, approach Threadless' thousands of artists and get them to publish to that one too - while keeping the weekly competition and availability that made Threadless neat.
- kawsper 9y ago> Concerns about controlling quality make sense given that artists on Threadless’s forum complain that they’re unable to promote their work because the print quality has dropped to the point that designs flake off after a few washes. Reviewers say the sizing, feel, and weight of Threadless’s shirts is inconsistent and getting worse over time, with some customers reporting that shirts bought five to 10 years ago are still holding up better than those purchased this year. This is exactly what happened to me, I used to wear a lot of their t-shirts, and needed a couple of new ones, so I did an order, and the fit had changed completely and they started loosing their print after a few washes. I didn't bother contact them, since I did not want to get into a "ship items back, receive item again and pay import taxes again"-cycle and wrote them off. They have been turning on their marketing emails a lot with me last couple of weeks, I think they are bleeding.
- tome 9y agoWhen I bought Threadless t-shirts (around 2006 I guess) they used to be printed on the inside with "Do not wash. Buy again from Threadless.com". I guess that was supposed to be "ha ha only serious".
- Sebguer 9y agoYeah, I haven't bought a shirt from them in like 10 years (high school?) and I just started getting literally dozen+ emails from them over the course of a day or two. Unsubscribed immediately.
- matthewn 9y agoSame here. I have a couple of ancient (roughly ten years old) Threadless shirts that still look good, and I have a couple of recent ones (within the last two years) that never fit the same and have not held up. Since many (most?) designs that are on Threadless are also on Society6, and since Society6 shirts are still relatively high quality, I order from them now instead.
- acomjean 9y agoInteresting. I haven't brought a shirt from them in a while, but was wearing an old one. Someone liked it and asked me where I got it. It was a Threadless shirt, they make a comment that the quality of the shirt seemed too high to be threadless...
- vasilia 9y agoAre there any alternatives to Threadless? Tees from my last order have a completely horrible quality.
- speps 9y agoI switched to http://www.fangamer.net http://www.fangamer.net ages ago because of quality issues and didn't regret a thing. Even if you don't know the video games references, they're good looking.
- tauntz 9y agoExpanding on that - what's your go-to T-shirt shop inside the EU? Ordering from Threadless (US) to the EU is quite expensive (shipping + taxes) and I haven't found a quality EU alternative yet.
- petra 9y agoSide question: is that print t-shirt trend a mostly US thing ? and does it exist meaningfully in small(5-10M people) countries ?
- Neurocynic 9y agoPampling is something I have used but did not like their quality after a few washes.
- loopbit 9y agoI usually go to qwertee (https://www.qwertee.com/ https://www.qwertee.com/). As I've said in another comment I've had some minor sizing issues but the print quality is decent enough.
- Freak_NL 9y agoSide note: I am looking at Qwertee and want to find out about their business model and designer compensation, but whenever I approach the page footer, a new batch of T-shirts thumbnails is loaded in the page content pushing the footer away… Someone didn't think that one through. Edit: > Artists/Designers receive 1 Euro per shirt sold or USD or GBP equivalent. You also retain all rights to your artwork before, during and after it appears on Qwertee (most other t shirt design sites want ownership of your design forever).
- shortformblog 9y agoThey're also getting beaten by price. Shirt.woot routinely sells its shirts for $10 in some cases, and other vendors are even cheaper.
- perseusprime11 9y agoIs there a good company to order printed t shirts?
- mhb 9y agoI have had good results on several recent orders using CustomInk. You may also want to look locally. I came across a place that is local to me whose prices are competitive with CustomInk and it's nice to support the local business. Also no shipping. I'm sure they also do remote orders, so you can check them out too: http://eastcoastembroidery.com/ http://eastcoastembroidery.com/
- perseusprime11 9y agoThanks. I am looking for a company that can makes custom t shirts with company logos and stuff without compromising on the quality of fabrics
- victor106 9y agoUniqlo.com has great t-shirts with cool themes from amazing artists and they last for years. The only downside side is they get sold out as soon as they are released and you have to wait for the next batch to come in.. Order from them all the time.
- detaro 9y agoWhat isn't quite clear to me from the article: are they still places around doing the competition/selection thing, or is everyone now offering "stores" to everyone? EDIT: Limited production runs (maybe originally needed because of printing tech, but also a possible marketing move) where also quite popular for a while.
- poof_he_is_gone 9y agoI am curious if they are going to align the Bucketfeet custom shoe patterns into an on demand service similar to their their t-shirt business.
- Freak_NL 9y agoI wonder if they lost a lot of non-US/Canada customers (like me) when they changed their printing set-up. You used to be able to buy a couple of T-shirts and have them shipped as one batch, so shipping and handling fees were reasonable when you ordered three T-shirts at once. I've gotten a good number of shirts from them this way. A few years ago I tried ordering a few T-shirts again, but didn't get past the final order screen because custom-printed using Direct-to-Garment T-shirts had varying processing times, so I would have had to pay shipping fees for each separate T-shirt. That may be fine for domestic shipping (and Canada), but it quickly turns the deal unappealingly expensive anywhere else.
- vwcx 9y agoNo mention of SkinnyCorp LLC. I always admired them for walking away from the design race when they discovered t-shirts to be more profitable.
- dpflan 9y agoOn the theme of t-shirt companies: Does anyone know how Teespring is doing?
- brentm 9y agoSee https://www.wsj.com/articles/struggling-teespring-takes-valuation-haircut-in-drastic-recapitalization-1497922483 https://www.wsj.com/articles/struggling-teespring-takes-valu...
- dpflan 9y agoWow. Thanks, @brentm. Paywalled for now so I'll find a work around and read this later. That is a drastic valuation drop. From what I remember, they were already quite profitable before taking on funding.
- slouch 9y agoI know that the only time we used them for a fundraising campaign in 2016 the colors on all of the designs printed a bit off.
- petepete 9y ago> Threadless fans report that the shirts now appear in UK T.J. Maxx stores Over here they're known as TK Maxx.
- raverbashing 9y agoI think the TK Maxx name is not only in the UK but all over Europe (maybe there are exceptions)
- test1235 9y agoAccording to wiki: "TK Maxx (Australia, Austria, United Kingdom, Germany, Ireland, Netherlands, Poland)" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TJX_Companies#Store_formats https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TJX_Companies#Store_formats
- rsoto 9y agoThreadless was such an inspiration for me 15+ years ago. They found a niche and created a wonderful marketplace in which the artists got paid well (I remember each design was bought for $5K) and so the consumer would get more variety, so they would come back and the cycle goes on forever. Or so we tought. I never bought a tee from them, since the international shipping fees were too high. And when they did, the stigma about their poor quality was very loud. However I can't believe they're that low. Turns out quality does matter, and not just a very good design.
- EADGBE 9y agoI thought the article said it paid artists $750 for a design with a $250 credit for shirts.
- rsoto 9y agoWhat I'm saying is what I remember back then, the article says it was up to $2,500 but I remember it was more as I myself was considering submitting a design. $750 cash + $250 gift card is the price in these days.
- tzury 9y agoI was a subscriber of Threadless for 2 years in a row. Every month, a new shirt landed in my mailbox. It was a nice monthly surprise. A cool design for the most part, though, fabric quality varied from one shirt to another. Some of the shirt's fabric was so thin, it did not hold much after few washes. At some point, I canceled it. You want to surprise me, no problem, I'll join the game, just make sure you play it fair.
- yeukhon 9y agoI am into print screening. It’s fun to print your own design on a t-shirt or even on a plastic bag. My friend printed text signs on plastic bags for a presentation on environment Pollution.
- tedmiston 9y agoSomething else not mentioned in the article is that graphic tees have fallen in popularity in the past decade vs plain t-shirts. I'm just one data point but having purchased from Threadless a few times, I haven't bought one graphic tee in the past five years or more. The novelty of a graphic tee wears off quickly. I'd rather have a more expensive but high quality plain shirt I'll like for years to come.
- scrooched_moose 9y agoHave they fallen in popularity or have you aged out of the target market? Same "single data point" disclaimer, but most of my peers lost interest in them mid-college when they began dressing more mature. The high schoolers I know still wear graphic tees but for whatever reason Threadless never connected with the next generation.
- jamestimmins 9y ago"for whatever reason Threadless never connected with the next generation" This is super insightful, and shouldn't be missed here. For them to stay successful for 17 years amongst a 5-10 year age group, they would need to completely refresh their customer base 2-3 times. That type of cultural relevancy is extremely hard, as anyone watching FB/Instagram vs Twitter vs Snap can attest.
- joshmanders 9y agoThis. I can attest that graphic tees are not "out of style".
- jacobrobbins 9y agoThis is a great point. Clothing styles go in and out of fashion on a cyclical basis that is multiple years long.
- rhizome 9y agoAnd there are professionals who focus on exactly this. I'm sure Threadless employs some, but maybe the wrong ones.
- dkarl 9y agoThreadless announced Artist Shops in 2015 and rolled them out to Threadless’s general community in early 2016. Artist Shops, still in existence, allow designers to sell items printed with any design (allowed by Threadless’s terms and conditions) directly to customers and receive royalties on each sale.... The shift to a more equitable royalties and rights model removed the gamification elements of Threadless that made the site so addictive to some designers and users... many designers said that the windfall $2,500 prize for winning the weekly design competition was preferable to them and they lost the motivation to submit designs due to the change. That's a pretty dark lesson in human nature. If you give somebody nothing, they'll judge you by the big payoff you gave to someone else. If you give them a little more than nothing, they'll judge you by that. Better to give a few people a lot and give the rest nothing but dreams so everyone will always see you in a positive light.
- duxup 9y agoI can't help but think that lesson applies to politics too.
- mintplant 9y agoReminiscent of the overjustification effect. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overjustification_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overjustification_effect The overjustification effect occurs when an expected external incentive such as money or prizes decreases a person's intrinsic motivation to perform a task. The overall effect of offering a reward for a previously unrewarded activity is a shift to extrinsic motivation and the undermining of pre-existing intrinsic motivation. Once rewards are no longer offered, interest in the activity is lost; prior intrinsic motivation does not return, and extrinsic rewards must be continuously offered as motivation to sustain the activity. Tangentially, I would encourage anyone still in college to take some psychology classes while you have the opportunity. Fascinating and useful stuff.
- aYsY4dDQ2NrcNzA 9y ago> Tangentially, I would encourage anyone still in college to take some psychology classes while you have the opportunity. What will you give me?
- smelendez 9y agoCould the demand side have changed too? I think I just see fewer people in these kinds of t-shirts than I did ten years ago. Maybe they had to go after the long tail in a shrinking market.
- Overtonwindow 9y agoTeeFury is still going strong.
- vblord 9y agoI thought tshirt hell was the internet's favorite tshirt company?!?!
- aaroninsf 9y agoTheir quality is now in the toilet. I got everyone in my family hoodies recently, and the quality of the printing is atrocious. Obviously "printed" and flaking almost entirely off after regular wear. Never again. They had me as a fierce loyal proponent. Now they have an enemy who will warn people away. :(
- vram22 9y agoIn 2006 I was a consultant (dev) on a dot-com product (being done in Ruby and Rails). The founder had plans to use Zazzle as one monetization approach, and IIRC, Cafepress too. I think t-shirts were one of their products (at least for Zazzle). Anyone know how those two are doing these days? On a side but related note: It might be interesting to read any stories about how some of the original dot-com companies are doing nowadays, those that survived, that is - from the 1997-2001 period.
- pbreit 9y agoYes! I would like actually to know what's going with CafePress and Zazzle. CafePress IPO'd in 2012 ("PRSS") at around $19 and has been all downhill since to its current $1.76. CafePress started in San Mateo but is now apparently in Kentucky. Zazzle seems to be healthy and active and 12 years later still run by its founders, the 3 Beaver brothers.
- config_yml 9y agoI used to order new T’s from Threadless every other month back in 2010, but since then I have developed a different style, or maybe I just adopted the mainstream, which has more simple and plain colors and maybe nicer materials.
- reiichiroh 9y agoI've bought neat limited-run tees from https://www.riptapparel.com/ https://www.riptapparel.com/ before. Haven't been back to Threadless in some time.
- on_and_off 9y agoFunny, I bought a dozen of tshirts on threadless 3 or 4 years ago. They were pretty nice for the time. They don't last that long though, and coupled with a desire to dress a bit better, I know try to buy better quality shirts .. and it is not the same price range at all ! Most of the good quality tshirts start at 40€, way more than a threadless shirt