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> Dopplr’s product was ambitious, gorgeous, and by all accounts, it worked well, but it didn’t provide the magical experience the Airpods did. Almost no startup

> Dopplr’s product was ambitious, gorgeous, and by all accounts, it worked well, but it didn’t provide the magical experience the Airpods did. Almost no startup could! That “magic” is the cumulative product of decades of R&D and manufacturing expertise. Nope. The "magic" of Airpods (I own a pair) is quick synced pairing. Startups like Dopplr can't provide that "magic" for iOS/Mac users because Apple doesn't enable the requisite access on their software. Dopplr, Bragi etc are better than Airpods but Apple controls many of the devices they need to interface with so they are fucked. The lesson is don't design your hardware to match Apple and primarily at Apple users. They will cut the legs under you

drzaiusapelord 9y ago
Is it so hard to sync up bluetooth headphones? I've done it once per headset I bought on my phone and it was a simple process. Children do it everyday. I suspect Doppler Labs failed to thrive for other reasons. I just stopped by their site and saw their farewell message. I could 50+ people in the photo. That's 50 salaries this startup had to absorb every month. If we assume 100k real cost per head (recruiting, pay, benefits, etc) then we're at $5m per month on salary alone. If it took 2 year from idea to product, then you're in the hole $120m. If you sell these headphones with a markup and post-everything margin of $30 per set, which seems reasonable, then you need 4m in sales to break even. That's a serious amount of sales to push through.
- naweeni 9y ago
  $5m per year, not month.
  - drzaiusapelord 9y ago
    Thanks, pre-caffiene thinking at work here. The numbers look more reasonable now, but ultimately its a hard sell especially when Apple doesn't actually need to make a profit for its accessories, but you do. Even then, what's the market look like for this without an Apple. I suspect not very large and its Apple's own marketing efforts that have gotten people interested in these tiny wireless earbuds anyway.
    - worldburger 9y ago
      >Apple doesn't actually need to make a profit for its accessories, but you do. Do you have data to support that claim? Amazon might sell hardware at cost or a loss, but Apple most certainly only sells hardware when two conditions are met: a) they can make a better device and b) they can make money
- ctdonath 9y ago
  There's a substantive difference between "simple" and "just happens". It's why my BT headphones sit in a drawer, while I gladly anticipate paying 16x as much for AirPods (and no, the money isn't freely available). The error mode for "simple" is "hard", while the error mode for "just happens" is "simple".
  - lowry 9y ago
    Recent NFC-enabled BT headphones do quite well the pairing with an NFC-enabled phone.
    - canuckintime 9y ago
      Apple doesn't allow NFC pairing on their devices. That's why Airpods feel so "magical" if you use an iPhone
- scrooched_moose 9y ago
  From my experience with bluetooth, yeah it is. Syncing is usually relatively painless but reliably and "instantly" reconnecting is a long ways off. I have maybe a 50% success rate without going to Settings>Bluetooth and clicking on the device. That inexplicably fails about a quarter of the time and I have to powercycle the speaker and toggle bluetooth off/on a few times until it decides to work again. That rate drops to basically 0 if the speaker is paired to multiple phones, or there are multiple speakers in range of my phone. If I had to deal with that multiple times per day like with headphones I'd just give up and return it. I have one absolutely reliable connection (turntable>bluetooth transmitter>stereo) but even that one takes about 15 seconds to establish after turning everything on.
  - rbanffy 9y ago
    My Logitech H-800 takes about a second from cold start to connected. That's certainly good enough.
  - Domenic_S 9y ago
    I have airpods and although the _initial_ sync is magical, it's just like every other set of bluetooth headphones when you've got more than 1 device to choose from. If I have my macbook and phone side by side and put in my airpods, they always connect to the phone. I have to go to the mac's bluetooth menu to choose airpods if I want to listen from my mac (icloud sync doesn't seem to work).
    - 1123581321 9y ago
      You can choose the AirPods from the volume icon on the menu bar, or are you saying the AirPods don’t show up there? I switch between iPhone and Mac audio a few times a day.
      - canuckintime 9y ago
        he's saying you shouldn't have to manually choose when switching
replicatorblog 9y ago
It's a little of both. For sure being designed into the OS layer is a help, but aside from Doppler, plenty of startups have failed because they're trying to ape Apple's fit and finish, rather than finding a way to build a sustainable business.
post_break 9y ago
Android user with Airpods. Magical syncing doesn't do anything on Android. It's the battery life, ear comfort, and the fact that the case is designed so well. There isn't a single set of wireless headphones that does the same thing as the Airpods.
- martianE 9y ago
  Try the new bose earbuds. Shits on apple airpods
- briandear 9y ago
  Definitely the case quality and the fact that it serves as a supplemental charger, even when not connected to a power supply. Wireless charging along with lightning charging as well as super audio quality that is indistinguishable from wired headphones of a similar form factor and price.. that's why AirPods win. The pairing part is just a one-time thing and yes, the experience is nice, but pairing ease isn't the primary selling point. My portable Bose speaker paired almost as quickly as AirPods. Criticism of AirPods is almost universally from people who've never used the product.
- canuckintime 9y ago
  Have you tried, or even heard about, any of the other options like Bragi and Doppr?
  - photojosh 9y ago
    Two of my colleagues were in on the Bragi Kickstarter. They were buggy and went through many firmware updates, but those couldn't fix the poor BT connection between the two.
alexasmyths 9y ago
The 'Magic' of 'Airpods' is the design, marketing, branding, distribution, eco-system advantages. The exact same product under another brand ... well, we may not have ever heard of them. Apple is still a 'highly functional incumbent' - and since it's always a bad idea to go up against incumbents even when they are dumb and lazy (usually they are, this is what incumbency does) it's a doubly bad idea to step in front of the Apple Mack Truck. Apple is still doing the 'evolve iPhone' thing and they can only do that for so long. The 'let's build a big fancy building' step is often sign of peak-ego, we'll see how long they go from here. Oracle, SAP etc. - look how long they can remain relevant just by doing small iterations in their software - they can hold business clients to the bone. I wonder if a consumer company can do the same. Their brand has a lot of built up value, and I don't see either Google or Samsung stepping up to the plate ... but cycles are fast in consumer land and consumers are fickle ... and unlike Nike where the 'tech' really is just for show ... It will be interesting to see how this plays out.
- yellowapple 9y ago
  "Their brand has a lot of built up value, and I don't see either Google or Samsung stepping up to the plate" They do seem to be trying, though, at least if their ad campaigns are any indicator. Google in particular seems to be positioning itself as a viable Apple competitor both in terms of the device itself (in this case, the Pixel line and its myriad of capabilities) and the branding around it (by tying in to the rest of Google's product line, particularly around search). Samsung, meanwhile, seems to have the first part of that down (and has done so for as long as the Galaxy line has existed, much to Apple's chagrin), but the second part is kind of missing there.
  - alexasmyths 9y ago
    Yes, the marketing piece is hard to operationalize and a 'creative lead' who leaves can ruin it - unlike regular ops where a 'finely tuned machine' can run for a long time with just responsible leaders. The new CMO is from Burberry, and I think she will keep things humming well. Johnny Ive is still participating, so they have a design front established. Engineers can think of cool new things. So they have a lot of momentum. But still ... There was a time before Apple, there will be a time after Apple :) ...

drzaiusapelord 9y ago

Is it so hard to sync up bluetooth headphones? I've done it once per headset I bought on my phone and it was a simple process. Children do it everyday. I suspect Doppler Labs failed to thrive for other reasons. I just stopped by their site and saw their farewell message. I could 50+ people in the photo. That's 50 salaries this startup had to absorb every month. If we assume 100k real cost per head (recruiting, pay, benefits, etc) then we're at $5m per month on salary alone. If it took 2 year from idea to product, then you're in the hole $120m. If you sell these headphones with a markup and post-everything margin of $30 per set, which seems reasonable, then you need 4m in sales to break even. That's a serious amount of sales to push through.

naweeni 9y ago
$5m per year, not month.
- drzaiusapelord 9y ago
  Thanks, pre-caffiene thinking at work here. The numbers look more reasonable now, but ultimately its a hard sell especially when Apple doesn't actually need to make a profit for its accessories, but you do. Even then, what's the market look like for this without an Apple. I suspect not very large and its Apple's own marketing efforts that have gotten people interested in these tiny wireless earbuds anyway.
  - worldburger 9y ago
    >Apple doesn't actually need to make a profit for its accessories, but you do. Do you have data to support that claim? Amazon might sell hardware at cost or a loss, but Apple most certainly only sells hardware when two conditions are met: a) they can make a better device and b) they can make money
ctdonath 9y ago
There's a substantive difference between "simple" and "just happens". It's why my BT headphones sit in a drawer, while I gladly anticipate paying 16x as much for AirPods (and no, the money isn't freely available). The error mode for "simple" is "hard", while the error mode for "just happens" is "simple".
- lowry 9y ago
  Recent NFC-enabled BT headphones do quite well the pairing with an NFC-enabled phone.
  - canuckintime 9y ago
    Apple doesn't allow NFC pairing on their devices. That's why Airpods feel so "magical" if you use an iPhone
scrooched_moose 9y ago
From my experience with bluetooth, yeah it is. Syncing is usually relatively painless but reliably and "instantly" reconnecting is a long ways off. I have maybe a 50% success rate without going to Settings>Bluetooth and clicking on the device. That inexplicably fails about a quarter of the time and I have to powercycle the speaker and toggle bluetooth off/on a few times until it decides to work again. That rate drops to basically 0 if the speaker is paired to multiple phones, or there are multiple speakers in range of my phone. If I had to deal with that multiple times per day like with headphones I'd just give up and return it. I have one absolutely reliable connection (turntable>bluetooth transmitter>stereo) but even that one takes about 15 seconds to establish after turning everything on.
- rbanffy 9y ago
  My Logitech H-800 takes about a second from cold start to connected. That's certainly good enough.
- Domenic_S 9y ago
  I have airpods and although the _initial_ sync is magical, it's just like every other set of bluetooth headphones when you've got more than 1 device to choose from. If I have my macbook and phone side by side and put in my airpods, they always connect to the phone. I have to go to the mac's bluetooth menu to choose airpods if I want to listen from my mac (icloud sync doesn't seem to work).
  - 1123581321 9y ago
    You can choose the AirPods from the volume icon on the menu bar, or are you saying the AirPods don’t show up there? I switch between iPhone and Mac audio a few times a day.
    - canuckintime 9y ago
      he's saying you shouldn't have to manually choose when switching

replicatorblog 9y ago

It's a little of both. For sure being designed into the OS layer is a help, but aside from Doppler, plenty of startups have failed because they're trying to ape Apple's fit and finish, rather than finding a way to build a sustainable business.

post_break 9y ago

Android user with Airpods. Magical syncing doesn't do anything on Android. It's the battery life, ear comfort, and the fact that the case is designed so well. There isn't a single set of wireless headphones that does the same thing as the Airpods.

martianE 9y ago
Try the new bose earbuds. Shits on apple airpods
briandear 9y ago
Definitely the case quality and the fact that it serves as a supplemental charger, even when not connected to a power supply. Wireless charging along with lightning charging as well as super audio quality that is indistinguishable from wired headphones of a similar form factor and price.. that's why AirPods win. The pairing part is just a one-time thing and yes, the experience is nice, but pairing ease isn't the primary selling point. My portable Bose speaker paired almost as quickly as AirPods. Criticism of AirPods is almost universally from people who've never used the product.
canuckintime 9y ago
Have you tried, or even heard about, any of the other options like Bragi and Doppr?
- photojosh 9y ago
  Two of my colleagues were in on the Bragi Kickstarter. They were buggy and went through many firmware updates, but those couldn't fix the poor BT connection between the two.

alexasmyths 9y ago

The 'Magic' of 'Airpods' is the design, marketing, branding, distribution, eco-system advantages. The exact same product under another brand ... well, we may not have ever heard of them. Apple is still a 'highly functional incumbent' - and since it's always a bad idea to go up against incumbents even when they are dumb and lazy (usually they are, this is what incumbency does) it's a doubly bad idea to step in front of the Apple Mack Truck. Apple is still doing the 'evolve iPhone' thing and they can only do that for so long. The 'let's build a big fancy building' step is often sign of peak-ego, we'll see how long they go from here. Oracle, SAP etc. - look how long they can remain relevant just by doing small iterations in their software - they can hold business clients to the bone. I wonder if a consumer company can do the same. Their brand has a lot of built up value, and I don't see either Google or Samsung stepping up to the plate ... but cycles are fast in consumer land and consumers are fickle ... and unlike Nike where the 'tech' really is just for show ... It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

yellowapple 9y ago
"Their brand has a lot of built up value, and I don't see either Google or Samsung stepping up to the plate" They do seem to be trying, though, at least if their ad campaigns are any indicator. Google in particular seems to be positioning itself as a viable Apple competitor both in terms of the device itself (in this case, the Pixel line and its myriad of capabilities) and the branding around it (by tying in to the rest of Google's product line, particularly around search). Samsung, meanwhile, seems to have the first part of that down (and has done so for as long as the Galaxy line has existed, much to Apple's chagrin), but the second part is kind of missing there.
- alexasmyths 9y ago
  Yes, the marketing piece is hard to operationalize and a 'creative lead' who leaves can ruin it - unlike regular ops where a 'finely tuned machine' can run for a long time with just responsible leaders. The new CMO is from Burberry, and I think she will keep things humming well. Johnny Ive is still participating, so they have a design front established. Engineers can think of cool new things. So they have a lot of momentum. But still ... There was a time before Apple, there will be a time after Apple :) ...