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Crypto currencies definitely are a great alternative to local currencies in third world countries. I’m from one of those, lived through hyperinflation that wipe

Crypto currencies definitely are a great alternative to local currencies in third world countries. I’m from one of those, lived through hyperinflation that wiped out my parents savings and left them with nothing at the end, watched the entire industries and countries get decimated bc they wouldn’t agree on which local currency to trade in, people work and get paid in money that is worthless next month. Whatever helps people in those places is great!

joe_the_user 9y ago
I suppose I'd have two questions about this. One is what proportion of ordinary people could actually get access to bitcoins in third world nations. Another is whether bitcoin mining will wind-up being a way to launder money and access to energy in the third world - we often hear about oil, diamonds and minerals being taken during conflicts in third world nations. If someone could turn oil into wealth with nothing more than an Internet connection and a portable server-farm, a whole range of abuses might be possible. It's been claim bitcoin mining in China can be a way to subvert currency controls already.
- Mediterraneo10 9y ago
  > One is what proportion of ordinary people could actually get access to bitcoins in third world nations. I don’t know about truly impoverished countries of Africa, but I have seen more Bitcoin storefronts and Bitcoin kiosks in South America and Eastern Europe than in wealthier countries of North America or Western Europe. It’s also worth keeping in mind that Sub-Saharan Africa was very quick to adopt mobile payments. The countries may be poor, but millions of people may have phones even if they don’t have electricity or running water in their homes, and they are able to do a lot with those phones.
- narrator 9y ago
  All you need to get access to bitcoin anywhere in the world is a <$40 smartphone and an account on localbitcoins.com.
  - MichaelGG 9y ago
    Sort of. Some places have very limited coverage on LBC. I've gone through my old ads ($50 BTC!) and in Guatemala it is still sparse. There's a bit of money pitching it on Facebook groups and grabbing a 5-10%+ markup nickle and diming it.
- ejanus 9y ago
  What do you gain by controlling currency beyond corruption?
  - quickben 9y ago
    Actually it's the opposite. If you don't control the currency, you end up with a ton of corruption.
    - ejanus 9y ago
      It is pretty obvious that you really experienced such policy .
      - quickben 9y ago
        Yeah, lived in a country through an embargo, several wars in the neighborhood, more horrible stuff than that in the economy too. Bottom line: people are creative creatures. Either we have some rules we can all agree on and enforce them, or people will start inventing all sort of, erm, market optimizations techniques to survive and prosper.
- eru 9y ago
  Not only mining, but also bitcoin gambling.
elmar 9y ago
Personally I feel that the big unfulfilled promise of Bitcoin is the financial inclusion of the Billions of unbanked worldwide.
- dgut 9y ago
  Many working on that, obviously not with dinosaur Bitcoin as a currency. See Mojaloop, Stellar/IBM, Humaniq, WeTrust and a bunch more that I can't immediately remember.
- lokerfoi 9y ago
  Yeah. The moment I heard of it I thought this would be the ultimate goal. But it turned out to be a value store for the first world. No longer is it electronic cash, more like electronic gold.
bitxbitxbitcoin 9y ago
The true promise of cryptocurrency :).
JumpCrisscross 9y ago
> Whatever helps people in those places is great! What fraction of people in those places have access to reliable computing, connectivity and electricity?
- coryl 9y ago
  http://allafrica.com/stories/201704251054.html http://allafrica.com/stories/201704251054.html THERE are currently 960 million mobile subscriptions across Africa - an 80 percent penetration rate among the continent's population. Internet penetration is at 18 percent with 216 million internet users, according to the latest Jumia mobile trend report for Africa. I don't know if mobile subscription includes data but you have Wifi at cafes and such.
  - ejanus 9y ago
    Jumia is into etailing and exploitation.... Don't reference their data .....
  - eru 9y ago
    Though for Africa m-pesa is probably way more important that bitcoin.
- ageofwant 9y ago
  The vast majority, 80% at least.
gcb0 9y ago
wishful thinking, sadly not backed up by the reality. BTC is not helping much in Venezuela. basic goods are hyperinflated in both local currency, USD and BTC. it's just that by looking at people who happens to own USD or BTC in the feel-good articles we have from there on this topic, they can afford much more than others because of better economic situation before the crisis.
- wjnc 9y ago
  If there is inflation in non-local currency, wouldn't that point to massive supply chain problems on the ground. Can't fault currencies for that. BTC is not helping Venezuela since there is a state induced apocalypse going on. No currency can help with that. With less extreme inflationary events, like bad monetary policy, that do not destroy all supply chains, currencies like BTC should be able to help retain wealth.
  - rbanffy 9y ago
    > wouldn't that point to massive supply chain problems on the ground I'd like to point out such problems can be easily manufactured if some points in the supply chain are heavily concentrated.
- dmichulke 9y ago
  > BTC is not helping much in Venezuela. basic goods are hyperinflated in both local currency, USD and BTC. As long as imports are allowed (or at least there is a black market), importers should be willing to sell for at USD and BTC, so in theory USD and BTC are still better than local currency.
ejanus 9y ago
But Crypto currencies are not immune to hyperinflation. And you may lose your key which is worse than having a currency of depreciating weight.
- jjallen 9y ago
  Keys are still easier to store and harder to confiscate than chunks of gold or fiat are. Can memorize them (worst case), store paper or tiny sd card in sock or shoe if afraid of it being confiscated or perhaps email it to you. Or tell part of it to different family members.
  - Fnoord 9y ago
    I think the correct setup is have three BTC accounts: 0) One for plausible deniability. You give this one away whilst under extreme pressure (torture). 1) For small expenses. This key you know yourself, in your head. Don't mix it up with #0. You could merge #0 and #1 if you feel relatively safe. 2) Savings. This key you give to multiple escrows.

joe_the_user 9y ago

I suppose I'd have two questions about this. One is what proportion of ordinary people could actually get access to bitcoins in third world nations. Another is whether bitcoin mining will wind-up being a way to launder money and access to energy in the third world - we often hear about oil, diamonds and minerals being taken during conflicts in third world nations. If someone could turn oil into wealth with nothing more than an Internet connection and a portable server-farm, a whole range of abuses might be possible. It's been claim bitcoin mining in China can be a way to subvert currency controls already.

Mediterraneo10 9y ago
> One is what proportion of ordinary people could actually get access to bitcoins in third world nations. I don’t know about truly impoverished countries of Africa, but I have seen more Bitcoin storefronts and Bitcoin kiosks in South America and Eastern Europe than in wealthier countries of North America or Western Europe. It’s also worth keeping in mind that Sub-Saharan Africa was very quick to adopt mobile payments. The countries may be poor, but millions of people may have phones even if they don’t have electricity or running water in their homes, and they are able to do a lot with those phones.
narrator 9y ago
All you need to get access to bitcoin anywhere in the world is a <$40 smartphone and an account on localbitcoins.com.
- MichaelGG 9y ago
  Sort of. Some places have very limited coverage on LBC. I've gone through my old ads ($50 BTC!) and in Guatemala it is still sparse. There's a bit of money pitching it on Facebook groups and grabbing a 5-10%+ markup nickle and diming it.
ejanus 9y ago
What do you gain by controlling currency beyond corruption?
- quickben 9y ago
  Actually it's the opposite. If you don't control the currency, you end up with a ton of corruption.
  - ejanus 9y ago
    It is pretty obvious that you really experienced such policy .
    - quickben 9y ago
      Yeah, lived in a country through an embargo, several wars in the neighborhood, more horrible stuff than that in the economy too. Bottom line: people are creative creatures. Either we have some rules we can all agree on and enforce them, or people will start inventing all sort of, erm, market optimizations techniques to survive and prosper.
eru 9y ago
Not only mining, but also bitcoin gambling.

elmar 9y ago

Personally I feel that the big unfulfilled promise of Bitcoin is the financial inclusion of the Billions of unbanked worldwide.

dgut 9y ago
Many working on that, obviously not with dinosaur Bitcoin as a currency. See Mojaloop, Stellar/IBM, Humaniq, WeTrust and a bunch more that I can't immediately remember.
lokerfoi 9y ago
Yeah. The moment I heard of it I thought this would be the ultimate goal. But it turned out to be a value store for the first world. No longer is it electronic cash, more like electronic gold.

bitxbitxbitcoin 9y ago

The true promise of cryptocurrency :).

JumpCrisscross 9y ago

> Whatever helps people in those places is great! What fraction of people in those places have access to reliable computing, connectivity and electricity?

coryl 9y ago
http://allafrica.com/stories/201704251054.html http://allafrica.com/stories/201704251054.html THERE are currently 960 million mobile subscriptions across Africa - an 80 percent penetration rate among the continent's population. Internet penetration is at 18 percent with 216 million internet users, according to the latest Jumia mobile trend report for Africa. I don't know if mobile subscription includes data but you have Wifi at cafes and such.
- ejanus 9y ago
  Jumia is into etailing and exploitation.... Don't reference their data .....
- eru 9y ago
  Though for Africa m-pesa is probably way more important that bitcoin.
ageofwant 9y ago
The vast majority, 80% at least.

gcb0 9y ago

wishful thinking, sadly not backed up by the reality. BTC is not helping much in Venezuela. basic goods are hyperinflated in both local currency, USD and BTC. it's just that by looking at people who happens to own USD or BTC in the feel-good articles we have from there on this topic, they can afford much more than others because of better economic situation before the crisis.

wjnc 9y ago
If there is inflation in non-local currency, wouldn't that point to massive supply chain problems on the ground. Can't fault currencies for that. BTC is not helping Venezuela since there is a state induced apocalypse going on. No currency can help with that. With less extreme inflationary events, like bad monetary policy, that do not destroy all supply chains, currencies like BTC should be able to help retain wealth.
- rbanffy 9y ago
  > wouldn't that point to massive supply chain problems on the ground I'd like to point out such problems can be easily manufactured if some points in the supply chain are heavily concentrated.
dmichulke 9y ago
> BTC is not helping much in Venezuela. basic goods are hyperinflated in both local currency, USD and BTC. As long as imports are allowed (or at least there is a black market), importers should be willing to sell for at USD and BTC, so in theory USD and BTC are still better than local currency.

ejanus 9y ago

But Crypto currencies are not immune to hyperinflation. And you may lose your key which is worse than having a currency of depreciating weight.

jjallen 9y ago
Keys are still easier to store and harder to confiscate than chunks of gold or fiat are. Can memorize them (worst case), store paper or tiny sd card in sock or shoe if afraid of it being confiscated or perhaps email it to you. Or tell part of it to different family members.
- Fnoord 9y ago
  I think the correct setup is have three BTC accounts: 0) One for plausible deniability. You give this one away whilst under extreme pressure (torture). 1) For small expenses. This key you know yourself, in your head. Don't mix it up with #0. You could merge #0 and #1 if you feel relatively safe. 2) Savings. This key you give to multiple escrows.