10 ms·

All of those "freelancer" websites are scams. Freelancing is about not working for other men. It's about being your own boss. Those websites are not really fre

All of those "freelancer" websites are scams. Freelancing is about not working for other men. It's about being your own boss. Those websites are not really freelancing, they're temp agencies hiring out short term contract work. That is not freelancing. Those websites all share specific qualities: The salaries are too low, the service quality is poor, and you'll be outbid by unskilled indian labor 90% of the time. Put your portfolio online and find your customers through other methods. If you have to pay someone else even $1 to find customers you are being ripped off.

yeukhon 9y ago
Not necessarily everyone. I did a few and I am not part of any temp agencies.
sunilkumarc 9y ago
"unskilled indian labour" huh? There are tens of Indian entrepreneurs who have set up Billion dollar companies in US. Don't forget that Microsoft and Google CEOs are Indian too!!
- enraged_camel 9y ago
  My guess is those aren't the ones outbidding you on freelancer websites...
- B4TMAN 9y ago
  They are US companies whose CEOs happen to Indians at the moment
- swalsh 9y ago
  Were those successful entrepreneurs and CEO's taking $3/hr jobs on freelancer sites? I don't think the statement was coming from a place of racism. But rather an unfortunate fact that the people willing to try to do this work for these low wages are often overseas. I've personally worked with many very talented people from India. None of them were taking work on freelancer sites.
- robjan 9y ago
  Skilled Indian labour is also outbid by the unskilled Indian labour.
  - crankylinuxuser 9y ago
    s/Indian//g The only reason why its Indian right now is because British occupation taught them English. It also doesn't hurt that they have the second most populous country in the world. And I know its anecdote, but I've met a number of fakers here in the US. Nothing special or "Indian-like" that makes lying about your abilities. Then again around 08 I considered padding and lying about my resume. Nothing I couldnt do, but it does look more acceptable to put down a bankrupt business as a source. Hard to.. Check.
    - Dylan16807 9y ago
      Who said anything about lying? It's Indian because they speak English, they're rapidly getting more online, and they have low cost of living. Skilled Indian tech workers can outbid skilled and unskilled Western workers, but unskilled Indian workers are abundant enough to outbid everyone else.
- this_route_ 9y ago
  Well, I am doing a remote job since last two year in a UK based company, almost a year ago I was suddenly sacked due to a company policy change, asking why the response was in short, they wont allow any people from India.. Then as a proof I sent them my country Wikipedia link, letting them understand my small country is not a region of India, and India is our neighbouring country. Then the company apologises by issuing an annual increment... This thing still surprises me and also i had to face few worst days of my life -_- due to this fact ...
swalsh 9y ago
I was with you up until your $1 comment. There's a lot effective ways to "market" yourself that aren't free. Conferences, for example, are crazy expensive. Paid advertising, sponsored content etc.
- Torkgin 9y ago
  If you market yourself by speaking at conferences you usually make money.
philtar 9y ago
Freelancing is about being able to work for whoever you want to. A temp can only work for one person at a time. Those websites allow you to work for more than one person at a time. So those people are, in fact, freelancers, not temps. I hire people on upwork. My favorite person charges $40 an hour. His work is great and gets repeat business from me many times a year. I'm not sure what you're referring to as a scam. These places are free markets and free markets have fees.
- asah 9y ago
  I also hire all sorts of people on upwork, both US and overseas, high-end and basic skills. Quality has been great, but as usual you need to pre-qualify.
  - featherverse 9y ago
    please see my comment above regarding upwork.
- makebelieve 9y ago
  free means no fees. free roads have no tolls. free concerts do not charge ticket prices. closed markets, toll roads, private venues all charge fees.
  - chengiz 9y ago
    You're confusing libre and gratis.
- featherverse 9y ago
  You're wrong in that temp contracts have different sorts of terms. Full term temps can usually only work with one hiring customer but that is not the only model. By taking a cut of the salary as a fee, websites like freelancer and upwork are temp agencies. Also, upwork is a shithole. You should really not use them. I spent 2 months trying to set up an account there as a freelancer and they were complete dicks for 2 months straight. They refuse to adhere to the constitutional laws of the united states where they are based, and their support department is mockingly hostile to their freelancers. I made a broad generalization in my first comment about all of those websites being the same. Obviously I haven't used every single one, there are hundreds of them. But the ones I have used have all been the same. It's obvious you want to use them, I strongly encourage you to stop using Upwork and look for one that treats it's contractors better.
arnvald 9y ago
Your comment is unfair. These websites are not scams. A couple of years ago I was looking for 10-15h/week gigs and using one of competitors of freelancer.com proved to work for me. Was it annoying to bid for gigs? Yes. Was the quality of their service low? Yeah, I'd say so. Were salaries low? For someone coming from Eastern Europe - not at all. On top of that, I always got money on time, which is not always the case if you have a direct client. Yes, you will be outbid by competitors from cheaper countries, but hey, welcome to reality where half of the stuff you buy is produced in China, because you compete with people and companies from all around the world. And no, if you pay someone $10 to get a gig that'll bring you $100, you're not ripped off, this is how business works, people earn money by helping other people to make money.
- wolco 9y ago
  I think freelancer.com is probably one of the worst places because it affords no protection
  - hackerpacker 9y ago
    they are money changers, and the last thing you want in a contract is someone in the middle making arbitrary decisions about when you get paid.
- freeflight 9y ago
  > For someone coming from Eastern Europe - not at all. > Yes, you will be outbid by competitors from cheaper countries, but hey, welcome to reality where half of the stuff you buy is produced in China, because you compete with people and companies from all around the world. That's what a race to the bottom looks like, if this trend keeps on going it won't be long before everybody has the income of somebody working in India, without even living there. This is not meant as an attack on the OP (or India), most people would act the same way if they'd be in that situation, just a somewhat scared observation where the future seems to be heading. And it's not like we got any good solutions for any of this, bringing the living standards up for everybody won't work, due to resource and economic constraints, so down it is.
CodeWriter23 9y ago
> It's about being your own boss. Actually, being a freelancer is about multiplying the number of bosses you have. And reducing the number of rights you have to just one: the right to walk away. Source: 26 years as a freelancer. One who would never get work through a rent-seeking, blood-sucking platform like Freelancer or Upwork.
rhizome 9y ago
It's lead generation, which freelancers can benefit from as much as agency employment (what you seem to be implying the Freelancer.com seller is current under).

yeukhon 9y ago

Not necessarily everyone. I did a few and I am not part of any temp agencies.

sunilkumarc 9y ago

"unskilled indian labour" huh? There are tens of Indian entrepreneurs who have set up Billion dollar companies in US. Don't forget that Microsoft and Google CEOs are Indian too!!

enraged_camel 9y ago
My guess is those aren't the ones outbidding you on freelancer websites...
B4TMAN 9y ago
They are US companies whose CEOs happen to Indians at the moment
swalsh 9y ago
Were those successful entrepreneurs and CEO's taking $3/hr jobs on freelancer sites? I don't think the statement was coming from a place of racism. But rather an unfortunate fact that the people willing to try to do this work for these low wages are often overseas. I've personally worked with many very talented people from India. None of them were taking work on freelancer sites.
robjan 9y ago
Skilled Indian labour is also outbid by the unskilled Indian labour.
- crankylinuxuser 9y ago
  s/Indian//g The only reason why its Indian right now is because British occupation taught them English. It also doesn't hurt that they have the second most populous country in the world. And I know its anecdote, but I've met a number of fakers here in the US. Nothing special or "Indian-like" that makes lying about your abilities. Then again around 08 I considered padding and lying about my resume. Nothing I couldnt do, but it does look more acceptable to put down a bankrupt business as a source. Hard to.. Check.
  - Dylan16807 9y ago
    Who said anything about lying? It's Indian because they speak English, they're rapidly getting more online, and they have low cost of living. Skilled Indian tech workers can outbid skilled and unskilled Western workers, but unskilled Indian workers are abundant enough to outbid everyone else.
this_route_ 9y ago
Well, I am doing a remote job since last two year in a UK based company, almost a year ago I was suddenly sacked due to a company policy change, asking why the response was in short, they wont allow any people from India.. Then as a proof I sent them my country Wikipedia link, letting them understand my small country is not a region of India, and India is our neighbouring country. Then the company apologises by issuing an annual increment... This thing still surprises me and also i had to face few worst days of my life -_- due to this fact ...

swalsh 9y ago

I was with you up until your $1 comment. There's a lot effective ways to "market" yourself that aren't free. Conferences, for example, are crazy expensive. Paid advertising, sponsored content etc.

Torkgin 9y ago
If you market yourself by speaking at conferences you usually make money.

philtar 9y ago

Freelancing is about being able to work for whoever you want to. A temp can only work for one person at a time. Those websites allow you to work for more than one person at a time. So those people are, in fact, freelancers, not temps. I hire people on upwork. My favorite person charges $40 an hour. His work is great and gets repeat business from me many times a year. I'm not sure what you're referring to as a scam. These places are free markets and free markets have fees.

asah 9y ago
I also hire all sorts of people on upwork, both US and overseas, high-end and basic skills. Quality has been great, but as usual you need to pre-qualify.
- featherverse 9y ago
  please see my comment above regarding upwork.
makebelieve 9y ago
free means no fees. free roads have no tolls. free concerts do not charge ticket prices. closed markets, toll roads, private venues all charge fees.
- chengiz 9y ago
  You're confusing libre and gratis.
featherverse 9y ago
You're wrong in that temp contracts have different sorts of terms. Full term temps can usually only work with one hiring customer but that is not the only model. By taking a cut of the salary as a fee, websites like freelancer and upwork are temp agencies. Also, upwork is a shithole. You should really not use them. I spent 2 months trying to set up an account there as a freelancer and they were complete dicks for 2 months straight. They refuse to adhere to the constitutional laws of the united states where they are based, and their support department is mockingly hostile to their freelancers. I made a broad generalization in my first comment about all of those websites being the same. Obviously I haven't used every single one, there are hundreds of them. But the ones I have used have all been the same. It's obvious you want to use them, I strongly encourage you to stop using Upwork and look for one that treats it's contractors better.

arnvald 9y ago

Your comment is unfair. These websites are not scams. A couple of years ago I was looking for 10-15h/week gigs and using one of competitors of freelancer.com proved to work for me. Was it annoying to bid for gigs? Yes. Was the quality of their service low? Yeah, I'd say so. Were salaries low? For someone coming from Eastern Europe - not at all. On top of that, I always got money on time, which is not always the case if you have a direct client. Yes, you will be outbid by competitors from cheaper countries, but hey, welcome to reality where half of the stuff you buy is produced in China, because you compete with people and companies from all around the world. And no, if you pay someone $10 to get a gig that'll bring you $100, you're not ripped off, this is how business works, people earn money by helping other people to make money.

wolco 9y ago
I think freelancer.com is probably one of the worst places because it affords no protection
- hackerpacker 9y ago
  they are money changers, and the last thing you want in a contract is someone in the middle making arbitrary decisions about when you get paid.
freeflight 9y ago
> For someone coming from Eastern Europe - not at all. > Yes, you will be outbid by competitors from cheaper countries, but hey, welcome to reality where half of the stuff you buy is produced in China, because you compete with people and companies from all around the world. That's what a race to the bottom looks like, if this trend keeps on going it won't be long before everybody has the income of somebody working in India, without even living there. This is not meant as an attack on the OP (or India), most people would act the same way if they'd be in that situation, just a somewhat scared observation where the future seems to be heading. And it's not like we got any good solutions for any of this, bringing the living standards up for everybody won't work, due to resource and economic constraints, so down it is.

CodeWriter23 9y ago

> It's about being your own boss. Actually, being a freelancer is about multiplying the number of bosses you have. And reducing the number of rights you have to just one: the right to walk away. Source: 26 years as a freelancer. One who would never get work through a rent-seeking, blood-sucking platform like Freelancer or Upwork.

rhizome 9y ago

It's lead generation, which freelancers can benefit from as much as agency employment (what you seem to be implying the Freelancer.com seller is current under).