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>it would be cool if Bitcoin didn't require throwaway computation Sure, but that's a technology that does not exist. If you can figure out how to create a bloc

>it would be cool if Bitcoin didn't require throwaway computation Sure, but that's a technology that does not exist. If you can figure out how to create a blockchain-like concept, where the 'proof of work' actually contributes to humanity, you have invented the next big thing. Edit: Reading the comments below me, it looks like this is a space that is being actively explored. Exciting!

uwu 9y ago
https://curecoin.net https://curecoin.net
- ArchReaper 9y ago
  From their site: >Curecoin puts ASICs to work at what they are good at–securing a blockchain, while it puts GPUs and CPUs to work with work items that can only be done on them–protein folding. Do you (or anyone) have more information in how this works? Does this reward you directly for doing the folding (as opposed to validating)? How does that work? That looks like a very interesting concept, and if it's technologically sound then I'd love to see it gain popularity.
azeirah 9y ago
There are some coins that do something like this, primecoin's proof of work has to do with primes. > The innovative prime proof-of-work in Primecoin not only provides security and minting to the network, but also generates a special form of prime number chains of interest to mathematical research. Thus primecoin network is energy-multiuse, compared to bitcoin. This is of course very basic, but still, it's interesting. http://primecoin.io/ http://primecoin.io/
brosirmandude 9y ago
This is actually already a thing., check out Gridcoin. Been around for a couple years but never really took off. I still think it's a really good idea, but might need better marketing. http://www.gridcoin.us/ http://www.gridcoin.us/
pfraze 9y ago
You can have blockchains without decentralized consensus. It's how Certificate Transparency works. You have the contract host record all operations and output on a ledger, and then ship that ledger/log out to monitors. This improves the auditability of the system, and enforces the backend logic as a contract. Deviations from the code are detectable by replay, and then provable. Flag the host and readjust your trust. You can also find ways to reduce the cost of switching between traditional hosting models, such as using data-sharing networks (Dat, IPFS) to quickly "hydrate" a new host, and good ole configurable endpoints to make the switch. It's the opposite of a trustless network; it's a trust network built on accountability. You watch hosts for bad behavior (such as the violation of the backend contract) and reconfigure trust around violations. No decentralized operation, but much less wasteful than PoW.
- eternalban 9y ago
  > You can have blockchains without decentralized consensus. That's pretty much something like Git.
  - pfraze 9y ago
    Yeah, though we don't use Git to monitor active systems.
scott_karana 9y ago
Folding and SETI @home existed for more than a decade. I've never understood why nobody mentions them for Proof of work. Maybe the work's not verifiable? http://folding.stanford.edu http://folding.stanford.edu
- simias 9y ago
  Yeah I believe that's the problem, the work needs to be trivially verifiable. You also need to be able to modulate the difficulty easily so that the blockrate remains constant as more people enter the "contest". And of course the work itself must somehow reference the transaction data otherwise you could use the same proof of work for two different blocks. Seems difficult to find an actually useful mathematical problems that fits all these prerequisites.
dqpb 9y ago
where the 'proof of work' actually contributes to humanity Wouldn't a cheaper throttle be easier?
XR0CSWV3h3kZWg 9y ago
As long as your problem can be defined entirely by data from the previous block and there is a nonce you can vary you can adopt proof of work to just about anything. The problem is that for most problems you don't want to explore the space of potential problems randomly, you want to select ones that people care about. If you allow an actor to dictate what problem to work on then you can have that actor pick a problem they have already solved and will be able to roll back tx arbitrarily once they have control.
simonjgreen 9y ago
Grid coin monetises boinc contributions

uwu 9y ago

https://curecoin.net https://curecoin.net

ArchReaper 9y ago
From their site: >Curecoin puts ASICs to work at what they are good at–securing a blockchain, while it puts GPUs and CPUs to work with work items that can only be done on them–protein folding. Do you (or anyone) have more information in how this works? Does this reward you directly for doing the folding (as opposed to validating)? How does that work? That looks like a very interesting concept, and if it's technologically sound then I'd love to see it gain popularity.

azeirah 9y ago

There are some coins that do something like this, primecoin's proof of work has to do with primes. > The innovative prime proof-of-work in Primecoin not only provides security and minting to the network, but also generates a special form of prime number chains of interest to mathematical research. Thus primecoin network is energy-multiuse, compared to bitcoin. This is of course very basic, but still, it's interesting. http://primecoin.io/ http://primecoin.io/

brosirmandude 9y ago

This is actually already a thing., check out Gridcoin. Been around for a couple years but never really took off. I still think it's a really good idea, but might need better marketing. http://www.gridcoin.us/ http://www.gridcoin.us/

pfraze 9y ago

You can have blockchains without decentralized consensus. It's how Certificate Transparency works. You have the contract host record all operations and output on a ledger, and then ship that ledger/log out to monitors. This improves the auditability of the system, and enforces the backend logic as a contract. Deviations from the code are detectable by replay, and then provable. Flag the host and readjust your trust. You can also find ways to reduce the cost of switching between traditional hosting models, such as using data-sharing networks (Dat, IPFS) to quickly "hydrate" a new host, and good ole configurable endpoints to make the switch. It's the opposite of a trustless network; it's a trust network built on accountability. You watch hosts for bad behavior (such as the violation of the backend contract) and reconfigure trust around violations. No decentralized operation, but much less wasteful than PoW.

eternalban 9y ago
> You can have blockchains without decentralized consensus. That's pretty much something like Git.
- pfraze 9y ago
  Yeah, though we don't use Git to monitor active systems.

scott_karana 9y ago

Folding and SETI @home existed for more than a decade. I've never understood why nobody mentions them for Proof of work. Maybe the work's not verifiable? http://folding.stanford.edu http://folding.stanford.edu

simias 9y ago
Yeah I believe that's the problem, the work needs to be trivially verifiable. You also need to be able to modulate the difficulty easily so that the blockrate remains constant as more people enter the "contest". And of course the work itself must somehow reference the transaction data otherwise you could use the same proof of work for two different blocks. Seems difficult to find an actually useful mathematical problems that fits all these prerequisites.

dqpb 9y ago

where the 'proof of work' actually contributes to humanity Wouldn't a cheaper throttle be easier?

XR0CSWV3h3kZWg 9y ago

As long as your problem can be defined entirely by data from the previous block and there is a nonce you can vary you can adopt proof of work to just about anything. The problem is that for most problems you don't want to explore the space of potential problems randomly, you want to select ones that people care about. If you allow an actor to dictate what problem to work on then you can have that actor pick a problem they have already solved and will be able to roll back tx arbitrarily once they have control.

simonjgreen 9y ago

Grid coin monetises boinc contributions