7 ms·

Apple starts patenting mobile app ideas

123 points by techvibe 16y ago

jsz0 16y ago
Why do people expect Apple to play by different rules? If they are developing these applications to be released in 8 months they're potentially in a bad spot if someone else patents them 2 months from now. What they choose to do after they are granted the patent is a separate issue. Patent reform in general is yet another issue. It's like complaining that the away team hits a technical free throw in a basketball. That's just how the game is played these days.
fuzzythinker 16y ago
They recently patented this 3D Modeling using an iphone too: http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/10/07/29/apple_investigates_3d_recording_of_real_world_places_objects.html http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/10/07/29/apple_investig...
smiler 16y ago
The article only looks at it from the 'Apple is evil' perspective. I wonder if Apple are patenting these purely so that others can't and thereby allowing freedom for developers to develop these apps without worrying about patent infringement
- chc 16y ago
  Given Apple's suits against HTC for using Android, I see no good reason to give them the benefit of the doubt like that.
- smokinn 16y ago
  Right. Because Apple never capriciously brings down the hammer on the small guy.
  - smiler 16y ago
    I'm not saying that either way - I was just pointing out the alternative. Until Apple state their intentions we won't know either way will we?
    - nihilocrat 16y ago
      We can extrapolate their intentions based on their history of actions, just like you can with real people or any other corporation / group of people. We can't predict with 100% veracity but we can have an educated expectation. Still, I'm more saddened by the fact that if Apple didn't do this, patent trolls probably would, so taking a stance here is a matter of picking a lesser evil.
    - Tamerlin 16y ago
      You should probably start by looking at Apple's history, which suggests that the alternative isn't likely.
- char 16y ago
  I'm looking at this from the "ANYONE who tries to patent generic ideas is evil" perspective.
  - timr 16y ago
    No offense, but that's not a very nuanced or useful way to think about the situation. It's the same line of thinking that makes 16-year-old kids declare that they'll never work for The Man. Idealistic and perhaps admirable, but not very practical. Opposing any individual player in a game for acting in their own rational best interest is dumb. If a big company with good products didn't act defensively in these situations, they'd be eaten alive by patent trolls who have no such qualms. Until the laws are changed, these kinds of patents are a necessary evil.
    - gbhn 16y ago
      A complication with patent trolls is that they're immune to defensive patents: they don't practice, so they can't be countersued or bargained with. I think you probably mean "other companies that develop mobile apps." In this case, especially in the context of the direct copy of the TapTapTap app as shown above, it looks like this means "our own developers."
  - lol 16y ago
    There's a difference between a defensive and an offensive patent portfolio. The fact that you choose not only to ignore it, but to declare holders of them 'evil' shows that you're a child. The fact that you got upvoted is a reminder that HN has turned into an utterly worthless shithole. No intelligent person would write or upvote your comment. Soon the unaccomplished wantrepreneurial morons like you will drive the real users from this site.
  - mgrouchy 16y ago
    I think we are getting pretty cavalier with the word evil these days, its not like apple is killing babies here. I'm not saying its right, but evil?
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
- notahacker 16y ago
  Alternatively they could allow freedom for developers on their own platform whilst aggressively pushing for licencing fees from rival platform providers. Bearing in mind their lawsuits against HTC for the alleged violation of broad and trivial patents I can't see why anyone would expect them to use it purely defensively
- krschultz 16y ago
  What if Apple skips sueing the guys on their own platform but does sue the guys making apps like this for Android? Thats more worrisome to me than the prospect of Apple using them against iPhone developers, which is probably something they would never do.
  - biafra 16y ago
    They probably won't sue ios developers over this, since they can easily block their apps.
- dedward 16y ago
  That, and in the current business climate, and the way the US patent system works, they pretty much have to do this - it's just good business strategy. If they don't patent it, someone else will, and will go after apple for buckets of cash. In general, it's just a patent cold-war style arms race between large companies - they all keep huge patent portfolios so they all don't bother suing each other for patent infringement, because they're pretty much guaranteed to be infringing on a bunch of each other's patents - it creates a legal situation that neither party wants to get involved with in the first place.
asnyder 16y ago
For years I've said that Apple is by far one of the scariest software companies out there. The enthusiasm for their products and CEO seems to have a blinding effect on the very same people that would normally be up in arms. I think it would be an interesting social experiment to outline many of their business practices without mention of the products, company or brand, even possibly an alias, or dummy co. and survey their hardcore base for opinion of the company.
- spoiledtechie 16y ago
  You have to think about it. If Apple were a type of government, what type would they be? Wait, Ill let you guess. Socialist Dictatorship. Think about how closed they are as a system... Would you really want a Socialist Dictatorship running your country?
  - jsz0 16y ago
    What type of company wouldn't be classified as a socialist dictatorship in your analogy? Government and business are two entirely different things. (another good reason to be skeptical of politicians who run on their experience as a CEO)
  - aaronblohowiak 16y ago
    Depends on who is in charge. Not sure if it fits your description, but Singapore is analogous for Apple, and I'd live there.
    - mortenjorck 16y ago
      Not to belabor the analogy, but... Flash == chewing gum?
  - stanleydrew 16y ago
    This is a pretty flame-y comment. There's not much use in this comparison. It only serves to ignite the Apple fans and detracts from what could be an otherwise great conversation about this particular event.
timr 16y ago
As bad as this seems, the best thing you can do as an aspiring developer is ignore it completely, and do whatever you're going to do anyway. The only way these patents are going to matter to you is if you hit it big enough to be worth taking to court -- it's a millionaire problem. Even then, there are lots of steps between "patent granted" and "patent successfully defended in court". You're so far from that point that it's not even worth thinking about this kind of crap. Also, before you bust out your pitchforks and torches, put your logic hat on for a second: this doesn't make any sense as an offensive move. The patent system is broken and everybody knows it. And as a result, any responsible tech company with sufficient resources must play the same game of mutual self-destruction. Meanwhile, Apple has a vested interest in cultivating a developer community. Patent trolls could easily kill that community. If Apple didn't patent ideas like this, some patent troll in Texas would, and the situation would be much worse for small developers. Obviously, I don't know if Apple is being defensive or offensive here, but it's pretty difficult to imagine them going from retail hardware company to professional patent troll. Again, it doesn't make sense as an offensive move.
- Niten 16y ago
  pg puts forth a similar view in his essay on software patents: http://www.paulgraham.com/softwarepatents.html http://www.paulgraham.com/softwarepatents.html But I don't think that logic applies here. Sure, if you're a small operation going head to head with some huge corporation, that attitude toward patents makes perfect sense. But that's not the order of things in scenario; Apple doesn't see small app developers as their competitors, rather they see Google's Android and possibly Microsoft's Windows Phone 7 (and the manufacturers who build the corresponding devices) as their competitors. So Apple's most likely use for these patents is to threaten developers building apps for Android and other non-iOS platforms. And that, in light of Apple's recent history of patent abuse, gives startups every reason to worry.
- coliveira 16y ago
  > The only way these patents are going to matter to you is if you hit it big enough to be worth taking to court -- it's a millionaire problem. Not really. Big companies can use patents to send a cease-and-desist letter to any small company. You don't need to be big company to be afraid of software patents.
Timothee 16y ago
One thing that surprises me in the images was that one of them is exactly "Where to?" by tap tap tap: http://taptaptap.com/#whereto http://taptaptap.com/#whereto
- metachris 16y ago
  Wow, it's just blatently ripped off! Wonder what else they got "inspired" by... Direct links to the images: taptaptap: http://taptaptap.com/img/screenshot/whereto/1.jpg http://taptaptap.com/img/screenshot/whereto/1.jpg the patent: http://www.unwiredview.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/Apple-patent-travel-app.jpg http://www.unwiredview.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/Apple-... (upper right "mockup")
  - unfletch 16y ago
    That's a cropped image. The actual patent image is here: http://aiw1.uspto.gov:80/.DImg?Docid=20100190510&PageNum=7&IDKey=3ABEB6C62D60&ImgFormat=tif http://aiw1.uspto.gov:80/.DImg?Docid=20100190510&PageNum... (Open it in something that supports TIFF if your browser doesn't display it. Photoshop worked for me.) In the un-cropped version you can see that the image is labeled #602. Here's the only part of the patent body where 602 is referenced: For example, an interface such as interface 602 can be provided on a user's electronic device. Through interface 602, a user can search for and view information on the various airport services available in the airport. It might not have been proper for Apple to copy another company's work for illustration in their patent, but the copied UI is for illustration of one possible UI for the described app. IANAL, but it doesn't read to me like they're trying to claim invention of the UI.
  - jlgosse 16y ago
    This can only mean one of two things: Either Apple is being extremely hostile and alienating one of their top developers, or they are preparing themselves for an acquisition of taptaptap in the immediate future.
    - sachinag 16y ago
      They'd have to pry it from Disney.
tvon 16y ago
Don't hate the player, hate the game.
- fredpeters 16y ago
  If this is an analogy to sport and say the sport is baby killing. Then I can hate the game and the player. You have a choice to get involved in the game. If this as an analogy to drug dealing. I agree that you should not hate the players, as they have no choice. However, I am allowed to hate the drug lord(s).
  - tvon 16y ago
    > If this is an analogy to sport and say the sport is baby killing. Then I can hate the game and the player. You have a choice to get involved in the game. My point is that Apple is merely playing by the same rules as everyone else. Getting upset because Apple patents something broad or obvious is just misguided, they're quite honestly doing exactly what they are supposed to be doing as a publicly held company. Some companies may avoid patents for ethical reasons, but ignoring the problem isn't going to solve anything. IMO, anyway.
  - brianpan 16y ago
    If the patent system was working correctly, it would be protecting inventors. That's not exactly killing babies. And I don't think refusing to obtain patents while other companies can and will use them is a viable option. Not trying to single you out fredpeters, but this whole thread is out of control. :/
alok-g 16y ago
The philosophy with patents these days is that whatever you do (as a part of a big company) that hasn't been done exactly that way before, you submit an invention disclosure on it. In this sense, patents these days are used more like copyrights!
vlucas 16y ago
This seems like a direct conflict of interest for Apple. Patenting app ideas will only serve to further alienate developers from the platform. I don't see any good coming from this, and I really hope "generic idea" patents like this start getting shot down by the patent office with regular frequency.
SkyMarshal 16y ago
I don't see these patents up on PeerToPatent.org yet, but if anyone has any data that can invalidate them, keep an eye out for when they do go up and stop the applications in their tracks.
evilmushroom 16y ago
Too many free passes for Apple in these comments.
pfarrell 16y ago
Gary Kildall refused to develop anything like a word processor application for CP/M because, basically, that way leads to evil and corruption. MS, of course, beat him out in the IBM deal and dominated with exactly that recipe. Everything old is new again.
vlad 16y ago
Even more worrying is the clear indication that Apple is switching to E-Ink display technology for next-gen devices.
vaporstun 16y ago
While I'm certainly not a fan of this like most commenters here, am I the only one that is of the opinion that instead of hating Apple, we should hate the broken US Patent system? While it disgusts me that they are able to patent these things, they are operating within the current rules of the patent system, and one could argue that if they didn't do so, someone else may come along and patent the same things. The phrase "don't hate the player, hate the game" comes to mind. In fact, they could be running afoul of their duty to their shareholders if they did not make their best effort within the law to protect their intellectual property. They could be altruistic and morally correct as many people here seem to wish they would, but someone else could come along, file the same silly patent, and succeed then bring a suit against Apple for infringement. We should all be sending letters to the USPTO or Congress, not Apple for this atrocity. Further, it is important to keep in mind that these are patent applications that have been FILED, but are not patents that have been ISSUED. There is a big difference there. I could file an application for a patent on a pencil, but it will not become an issued patent because that's bogus. Likewise for these, they may well get rejected for being unpatentable subject matter.
mkramlich 16y ago
seeing this has pushed me over the edge. i now want to join or start an effort to destroy or at least fix the idiocy that is the current US software patent system. we cannot let this bullshit continue!
korch 16y ago
What ever happened to Apple taking the lead, standing up, and doing the right thing, damn the consequences? One of the reasons why Apple fans have been so fanatical about Apple products is because they know Apple will do the right thing. Unlike say, Microsoft. So now Apple is just like any other evil, scheming mega-corp. It's pretty sad actually. Like the day the music died, Apple software has died.
- prodigal_erik 16y ago
  When has Apple ever indulged in idealism? They support a hellhole of a manufacturing plant, they willingly implemented DRM before complaining about it, everything they've made for decades has been disposable and hostile to tinkerers, and now they are starting a dystopian software market that's authoritarian in ways Microsoft never even dared.
  - korch 16y ago
    Hmm, after you put it that way, you are right of course. I think you just broke my Reality Distortion Field!

123 points by techvibe 16y ago

jsz0 16y ago

Why do people expect Apple to play by different rules? If they are developing these applications to be released in 8 months they're potentially in a bad spot if someone else patents them 2 months from now. What they choose to do after they are granted the patent is a separate issue. Patent reform in general is yet another issue. It's like complaining that the away team hits a technical free throw in a basketball. That's just how the game is played these days.

fuzzythinker 16y ago

They recently patented this 3D Modeling using an iphone too: http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/10/07/29/apple_investigates_3d_recording_of_real_world_places_objects.html http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/10/07/29/apple_investig...

smiler 16y ago

The article only looks at it from the 'Apple is evil' perspective. I wonder if Apple are patenting these purely so that others can't and thereby allowing freedom for developers to develop these apps without worrying about patent infringement

chc 16y ago
Given Apple's suits against HTC for using Android, I see no good reason to give them the benefit of the doubt like that.
smokinn 16y ago
Right. Because Apple never capriciously brings down the hammer on the small guy.
- smiler 16y ago
  I'm not saying that either way - I was just pointing out the alternative. Until Apple state their intentions we won't know either way will we?
  - nihilocrat 16y ago
    We can extrapolate their intentions based on their history of actions, just like you can with real people or any other corporation / group of people. We can't predict with 100% veracity but we can have an educated expectation. Still, I'm more saddened by the fact that if Apple didn't do this, patent trolls probably would, so taking a stance here is a matter of picking a lesser evil.
  - Tamerlin 16y ago
    You should probably start by looking at Apple's history, which suggests that the alternative isn't likely.
char 16y ago
I'm looking at this from the "ANYONE who tries to patent generic ideas is evil" perspective.
- timr 16y ago
  No offense, but that's not a very nuanced or useful way to think about the situation. It's the same line of thinking that makes 16-year-old kids declare that they'll never work for The Man. Idealistic and perhaps admirable, but not very practical. Opposing any individual player in a game for acting in their own rational best interest is dumb. If a big company with good products didn't act defensively in these situations, they'd be eaten alive by patent trolls who have no such qualms. Until the laws are changed, these kinds of patents are a necessary evil.
  - gbhn 16y ago
    A complication with patent trolls is that they're immune to defensive patents: they don't practice, so they can't be countersued or bargained with. I think you probably mean "other companies that develop mobile apps." In this case, especially in the context of the direct copy of the TapTapTap app as shown above, it looks like this means "our own developers."
- lol 16y ago
  There's a difference between a defensive and an offensive patent portfolio. The fact that you choose not only to ignore it, but to declare holders of them 'evil' shows that you're a child. The fact that you got upvoted is a reminder that HN has turned into an utterly worthless shithole. No intelligent person would write or upvote your comment. Soon the unaccomplished wantrepreneurial morons like you will drive the real users from this site.
- mgrouchy 16y ago
  I think we are getting pretty cavalier with the word evil these days, its not like apple is killing babies here. I'm not saying its right, but evil?
deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
notahacker 16y ago
Alternatively they could allow freedom for developers on their own platform whilst aggressively pushing for licencing fees from rival platform providers. Bearing in mind their lawsuits against HTC for the alleged violation of broad and trivial patents I can't see why anyone would expect them to use it purely defensively
krschultz 16y ago
What if Apple skips sueing the guys on their own platform but does sue the guys making apps like this for Android? Thats more worrisome to me than the prospect of Apple using them against iPhone developers, which is probably something they would never do.
- biafra 16y ago
  They probably won't sue ios developers over this, since they can easily block their apps.
dedward 16y ago
That, and in the current business climate, and the way the US patent system works, they pretty much have to do this - it's just good business strategy. If they don't patent it, someone else will, and will go after apple for buckets of cash. In general, it's just a patent cold-war style arms race between large companies - they all keep huge patent portfolios so they all don't bother suing each other for patent infringement, because they're pretty much guaranteed to be infringing on a bunch of each other's patents - it creates a legal situation that neither party wants to get involved with in the first place.

asnyder 16y ago

For years I've said that Apple is by far one of the scariest software companies out there. The enthusiasm for their products and CEO seems to have a blinding effect on the very same people that would normally be up in arms. I think it would be an interesting social experiment to outline many of their business practices without mention of the products, company or brand, even possibly an alias, or dummy co. and survey their hardcore base for opinion of the company.

spoiledtechie 16y ago
You have to think about it. If Apple were a type of government, what type would they be? Wait, Ill let you guess. Socialist Dictatorship. Think about how closed they are as a system... Would you really want a Socialist Dictatorship running your country?
- jsz0 16y ago
  What type of company wouldn't be classified as a socialist dictatorship in your analogy? Government and business are two entirely different things. (another good reason to be skeptical of politicians who run on their experience as a CEO)
- aaronblohowiak 16y ago
  Depends on who is in charge. Not sure if it fits your description, but Singapore is analogous for Apple, and I'd live there.
  - mortenjorck 16y ago
    Not to belabor the analogy, but... Flash == chewing gum?
- stanleydrew 16y ago
  This is a pretty flame-y comment. There's not much use in this comparison. It only serves to ignite the Apple fans and detracts from what could be an otherwise great conversation about this particular event.

timr 16y ago

As bad as this seems, the best thing you can do as an aspiring developer is ignore it completely, and do whatever you're going to do anyway. The only way these patents are going to matter to you is if you hit it big enough to be worth taking to court -- it's a millionaire problem. Even then, there are lots of steps between "patent granted" and "patent successfully defended in court". You're so far from that point that it's not even worth thinking about this kind of crap. Also, before you bust out your pitchforks and torches, put your logic hat on for a second: this doesn't make any sense as an offensive move. The patent system is broken and everybody knows it. And as a result, any responsible tech company with sufficient resources must play the same game of mutual self-destruction. Meanwhile, Apple has a vested interest in cultivating a developer community. Patent trolls could easily kill that community. If Apple didn't patent ideas like this, some patent troll in Texas would, and the situation would be much worse for small developers. Obviously, I don't know if Apple is being defensive or offensive here, but it's pretty difficult to imagine them going from retail hardware company to professional patent troll. Again, it doesn't make sense as an offensive move.

Niten 16y ago
pg puts forth a similar view in his essay on software patents: http://www.paulgraham.com/softwarepatents.html http://www.paulgraham.com/softwarepatents.html But I don't think that logic applies here. Sure, if you're a small operation going head to head with some huge corporation, that attitude toward patents makes perfect sense. But that's not the order of things in scenario; Apple doesn't see small app developers as their competitors, rather they see Google's Android and possibly Microsoft's Windows Phone 7 (and the manufacturers who build the corresponding devices) as their competitors. So Apple's most likely use for these patents is to threaten developers building apps for Android and other non-iOS platforms. And that, in light of Apple's recent history of patent abuse, gives startups every reason to worry.
coliveira 16y ago
> The only way these patents are going to matter to you is if you hit it big enough to be worth taking to court -- it's a millionaire problem. Not really. Big companies can use patents to send a cease-and-desist letter to any small company. You don't need to be big company to be afraid of software patents.

Timothee 16y ago

One thing that surprises me in the images was that one of them is exactly "Where to?" by tap tap tap: http://taptaptap.com/#whereto http://taptaptap.com/#whereto

metachris 16y ago
Wow, it's just blatently ripped off! Wonder what else they got "inspired" by... Direct links to the images: taptaptap: http://taptaptap.com/img/screenshot/whereto/1.jpg http://taptaptap.com/img/screenshot/whereto/1.jpg the patent: http://www.unwiredview.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/Apple-patent-travel-app.jpg http://www.unwiredview.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/Apple-... (upper right "mockup")
- unfletch 16y ago
  That's a cropped image. The actual patent image is here: http://aiw1.uspto.gov:80/.DImg?Docid=20100190510&PageNum=7&IDKey=3ABEB6C62D60&ImgFormat=tif http://aiw1.uspto.gov:80/.DImg?Docid=20100190510&PageNum... (Open it in something that supports TIFF if your browser doesn't display it. Photoshop worked for me.) In the un-cropped version you can see that the image is labeled #602. Here's the only part of the patent body where 602 is referenced: For example, an interface such as interface 602 can be provided on a user's electronic device. Through interface 602, a user can search for and view information on the various airport services available in the airport. It might not have been proper for Apple to copy another company's work for illustration in their patent, but the copied UI is for illustration of one possible UI for the described app. IANAL, but it doesn't read to me like they're trying to claim invention of the UI.
- jlgosse 16y ago
  This can only mean one of two things: Either Apple is being extremely hostile and alienating one of their top developers, or they are preparing themselves for an acquisition of taptaptap in the immediate future.
  - sachinag 16y ago
    They'd have to pry it from Disney.

tvon 16y ago

Don't hate the player, hate the game.

fredpeters 16y ago
If this is an analogy to sport and say the sport is baby killing. Then I can hate the game and the player. You have a choice to get involved in the game. If this as an analogy to drug dealing. I agree that you should not hate the players, as they have no choice. However, I am allowed to hate the drug lord(s).
- tvon 16y ago
  > If this is an analogy to sport and say the sport is baby killing. Then I can hate the game and the player. You have a choice to get involved in the game. My point is that Apple is merely playing by the same rules as everyone else. Getting upset because Apple patents something broad or obvious is just misguided, they're quite honestly doing exactly what they are supposed to be doing as a publicly held company. Some companies may avoid patents for ethical reasons, but ignoring the problem isn't going to solve anything. IMO, anyway.
- brianpan 16y ago
  If the patent system was working correctly, it would be protecting inventors. That's not exactly killing babies. And I don't think refusing to obtain patents while other companies can and will use them is a viable option. Not trying to single you out fredpeters, but this whole thread is out of control. :/

alok-g 16y ago

The philosophy with patents these days is that whatever you do (as a part of a big company) that hasn't been done exactly that way before, you submit an invention disclosure on it. In this sense, patents these days are used more like copyrights!

vlucas 16y ago

This seems like a direct conflict of interest for Apple. Patenting app ideas will only serve to further alienate developers from the platform. I don't see any good coming from this, and I really hope "generic idea" patents like this start getting shot down by the patent office with regular frequency.

SkyMarshal 16y ago

I don't see these patents up on PeerToPatent.org yet, but if anyone has any data that can invalidate them, keep an eye out for when they do go up and stop the applications in their tracks.

evilmushroom 16y ago

Too many free passes for Apple in these comments.

pfarrell 16y ago

Gary Kildall refused to develop anything like a word processor application for CP/M because, basically, that way leads to evil and corruption. MS, of course, beat him out in the IBM deal and dominated with exactly that recipe. Everything old is new again.

vlad 16y ago

Even more worrying is the clear indication that Apple is switching to E-Ink display technology for next-gen devices.

vaporstun 16y ago

While I'm certainly not a fan of this like most commenters here, am I the only one that is of the opinion that instead of hating Apple, we should hate the broken US Patent system? While it disgusts me that they are able to patent these things, they are operating within the current rules of the patent system, and one could argue that if they didn't do so, someone else may come along and patent the same things. The phrase "don't hate the player, hate the game" comes to mind. In fact, they could be running afoul of their duty to their shareholders if they did not make their best effort within the law to protect their intellectual property. They could be altruistic and morally correct as many people here seem to wish they would, but someone else could come along, file the same silly patent, and succeed then bring a suit against Apple for infringement. We should all be sending letters to the USPTO or Congress, not Apple for this atrocity. Further, it is important to keep in mind that these are patent applications that have been FILED, but are not patents that have been ISSUED. There is a big difference there. I could file an application for a patent on a pencil, but it will not become an issued patent because that's bogus. Likewise for these, they may well get rejected for being unpatentable subject matter.

mkramlich 16y ago

seeing this has pushed me over the edge. i now want to join or start an effort to destroy or at least fix the idiocy that is the current US software patent system. we cannot let this bullshit continue!

korch 16y ago

What ever happened to Apple taking the lead, standing up, and doing the right thing, damn the consequences? One of the reasons why Apple fans have been so fanatical about Apple products is because they know Apple will do the right thing. Unlike say, Microsoft. So now Apple is just like any other evil, scheming mega-corp. It's pretty sad actually. Like the day the music died, Apple software has died.

prodigal_erik 16y ago
When has Apple ever indulged in idealism? They support a hellhole of a manufacturing plant, they willingly implemented DRM before complaining about it, everything they've made for decades has been disposable and hostile to tinkerers, and now they are starting a dystopian software market that's authoritarian in ways Microsoft never even dared.
- korch 16y ago
  Hmm, after you put it that way, you are right of course. I think you just broke my Reality Distortion Field!