8 ms·

Yahoo is now part of Oath

115 points by Sami_Lehtinen 9y ago

Doches 9y ago
This is basically the inevitable smashing together of Yahoo and AOL under Verizon. Cue misplaced 90's nostalgia in 3...2...
aorth 9y ago
> as of 18 September 2017, Yahoo and Oath plan to share some user information within the Verizon family of companies which will enable us to integrate our business, allowing us to coordinate more and improve your experiences. Might want to finally ditch your yahoo email address. ;)
jtokoph 9y ago
Let's say I run company A, and Company B wants to buy all of my user's information but I've already created policies that say I won't share user information with 3rd parties. Could I: 1. Create a subsidiary (Company C) 2. Share info 'internally' with company C 3. Sell Company C to Company B
- skummetmaelk 9y ago
  4. ??? 5. Laugh all the way to the bank.
  - mkl 9y ago
    I don't think you need step 4.
- terryjsmith 9y ago
  Technically, of course you can, but practically, if someone sued, you would probably have a hard time convincing others that you are complying with your own policy. It's probably easier to just to change your ToS/privacy policy.
- DannyBee 9y ago
  In what sense are you asking if you "Can" do it. The FTC is fairly broadly empowered to stop deceptive practices, and most of the standards there are about what reasonable users would expect. So you may be able to work around a contract implicit or explicit, but in practice it's unlikely you would get away with it. Plus if you said this to a judge they'd laugh at you. They are not (and should not be) judging automatons.
- carussell 9y ago
  Sometimes programmers' minds get infected with the idea that the whole world, especially courts and regulatory agencies, are just little virtual machines that will dutifully execute based on whatever steps you lay out at the beginning. They're not. Machines can't call bullshit on you, but people will.
  - Bartweiss 9y ago
    I think that comment makes the mistake twice over, even. First, because T&C are (usually) not an immutable contract - companies can just change them without any legal shenanigans at all. Then second because, as you say, actions taken just to circumvent laws are usually themselves illegal. It is pretty baffling to see how often programmers talk about law like it's an algorithm. Even the DAO didn't work out that way, and that was explicitly intended to turn contracts and law into algorithms. If that didn't resist social pressure to redress harms, why would we expect actual humans to do so? (And frankly, thank god the law doesn't work like that. I don't want to live in a world where legal loopholes open up as often as software vulnerabilities.)
- ballenf 9y ago
  Most privacy policies have an "out" only for acquisition of substantially all of the assets of the parent org. The reality is that if you're considering selling the golden goose of all your user data then you might as well just sell the business outright and be in 100% compliance without the expense of the proposed convolutions or risk of FTC ire. With not a damn thing your users can do short of trying to delete their accounts.
- pbhjpbhj 9y ago
  Usually there's a unilateral T&C alteration clause, so you can do what you like just change the terms first. Change them right back a microsecond later if you like? Just word it "not share with unrelated third parties" and it reads like "no sharing" but of course any party you're selling too is related by contract. No-one reads the terms really, well I'd guess <<1%? Probably what's needed is a general framework from law about not sharing without explicit consent banning the company; and that personal data expires in a company transfer/sale without consent (but perhaps a lower bar there).
- richardwhiuk 9y ago
  What policies have you created? How are those enforced? Are they even enforceable? Depending on how they are worded, either the share, and/oor the sale, and/or neither will break the policy
Animats 9y ago
We will share ... your account registration information (such as your user ID, gender, name, email address, postcode & age), your content and advertising interests, content associated with your account, the types of services you use and how you engage with them, cookie and device IDs, IP addresses, geolocation information and activity information from across our websites, apps, software and other services. All of the information that we collect about you may be shared across the various Oath brands and within our Verizon family of companies. To delete your Yahoo account, click here: https://help.yahoo.com/kb/SLN2044.html https://help.yahoo.com/kb/SLN2044.html
- syntheticnature 9y ago
  Note that Yahoo's account integration is weak and weird so you may wish to manually delete things linked to your account first. For example, if you have any Yahoo Groups you own, you should either delete them or transfer ownership first, as Yahoo has basically left that area on life support only and won't even promote a member to a moderator, let alone owner after a poll anymore -- so there are groups basically accumulating spam, with public posts that need to be deleted, or just unable to get new members.
- soared 9y ago
  A fun test would be to post the data sharing policy of various services/apps and see how often someone posts a comment like this. Someone always posts a comment like this and it always feels, to me, like a knee-jerk reaction. They've had your data for years (and were previously not only irresponsible but likely shared it with countless other partners), what has changed now? Just because Yahoo is forthecoming about that they're sharing data, rather than selling it and not telling, thats grounds to close your account? I'm not saying you shouldn't, just odd to always see this comment.
  - ProAm 9y ago
    > They've had your data for years (and were previously not only irresponsible but likely shared it with countless other partners), what has changed now? To be honest, it's already in the wild when they where hacked and everything was stolen. 3 billion accounts. [1] [1] https://www.cnbc.com/2017/10/04/how-the-yahoo-hack-stacks-up-to-previous-data-breaches.html https://www.cnbc.com/2017/10/04/how-the-yahoo-hack-stacks-up...
humanrebar 9y ago
oath: noun; plural oaths ... 6. any profane expression; curse; swearword: "He slammed the door with a muttered oath." http://www.dictionary.com/browse/oath http://www.dictionary.com/browse/oath
- drdeca 9y ago
  Until I read this comment, I thought it was saying Yahoo had added Oauth support. Whoops. Thanks for the correction.
- igravious 9y ago
  Very clever, but … 2. a statement or promise strengthened by such an appeal. Oath promises to connect over a billion people to a stable of brands that they love. The is Oath's promise, feel the . “This is our promise to you. To connect your brand to over a billion crazy in love [in love with brands] people.“ https://www.oath.com/ https://www.oath.com/ [Can you kick it? Play video] It's in the barftastic marketing-speak copy in the video.
trurl 9y ago
Any suggestions for migrating away from Flickr while preserving my data? Google, etc. don't really seem like they will be any more ethical.
- berbec 9y ago
  1-user gsuite account. 1TB for $5/month
  - trurl 9y ago
    GSuite would be Google. I don't think an advertising company is really going to be that much better than Verizon. And if I just want 1TB of online storage I have better options. The question was about a "photo sharing" application not unlike Flickr.
    - ZenoArrow 9y ago
      MediaGoblin perhaps? I've never used it (or Flickr) but it seems like it could be a good fit. https://mediagoblin.org/ https://mediagoblin.org/ https://mediagoblin.org/pages/tour.html https://mediagoblin.org/pages/tour.html
    - ghaff 9y ago
      SmugMug possibly although I haven’t looked at them in ages. Premium photosharing sort of fell out of favor as a product category. Honestly it’s CC search that I value most about Flickr though. I don’t really do the social aspects and I could always find an alternnative personal hosting option.
    - sethgecko 9y ago
      check out 500px
- grantpalin 9y ago
  I've been liking Flickr less and less with Yahoo's decline and the tie-in to Yahoo accounts. The only reason I have a Yahoo account is because it was required for Flickr. For my own uses, been thinking of self-hosting something like Zenphoto on a subdomain.
chipotle_coyote 9y ago
Look, I just want to know if this will lead to a fix of Yahoo's most dire problem: that abominable logo redesign.
orthecreedence 9y ago
Congratulations, Verizon, on the expansion of your propaganda platform. Net Neutrality doesn't stand a chance now!
personjerry 9y ago
tl;dr Verizon bought Yahoo
mpg515 9y ago
Q: Why am I receiving this notice? A: We would like to inform you in advance that, as of 18 September 2017, Yahoo and Oath plan to share some user information within the Verizon family of companies which will enable us to integrate our business, allowing us to coordinate more and improve your experiences. Hate to break it to you, but everyone has already shared Yahoo's user information
olivermarks 9y ago
'Yahoo is now part of Oath ' Congratulations on finally becoming a swearword instead of an excited yell
- beat 9y ago
  This comment wins the Internet today.
- Bartweiss 9y ago
  It's about time! I wonder when someone last used their products and cheered instead of swearing?
tomc1985 9y ago
Oath -- what a stupid name. Trying to invoke honor and valor. Ha!
- Bartweiss 9y ago
  I appreciate the name. They might have aimed for honor, but also invoked obscenity and that fits perfectly.
  - ZenoArrow 9y ago
    Is it really an obscenity? Closest I've heard "oath" used as an obscenity is "bloody oath" or words to that affect, which means exactly the same as "damn right". Bloody and damn are both mild swear words, but haven't seen "oath" used as an obscenity in its own right.
  - tomc1985 9y ago
    I have never heard the unmodified word "oath" used to indicate anything less than positive. Only very rarely is it used in any negative sense, and then almost always with some sort of descriptor -- "Bloody oath", as you say Are you from AU by chance? Urban Dictionary seems to indicate 'oath' is slang over there https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=oath https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=oath
distantsounds 9y ago
AOL and Yahoo, together at last. Because nobody likes to die alone.
thewunder 9y ago
I read this as part of OAuth Don't they already have some sort of Oauth support for their APIs? Oh wait...
- jwilk 9y ago
  My first thought was: https://openauthentication.org/ https://openauthentication.org/
hondo77 9y ago
...and the world yawns...
unsatchmo 9y ago
What the hell is "Yahoo"?
ourcat 9y ago
I really need to get my photos off Flickr.
valuearb 9y ago
Verizon just informed me of this fantastic new service they want to sell me where I can create my own caller id signature for my phone calls. They specifically state they aren't editing/approving them, so I can be "Princess Di" or "Donald Trump" if I want. Now I know why all my spam calls the last few days have been from people with full caller ID signatures that make it look like they are in my contacts already. These are the people in charge of protecting your private information at Yahoo.
- Nition 9y ago
  In that case I'd suggest "Mom" or "Dad" for maximum effectiveness. Oooh or maybe "YOU HAVE WON".
  - jacquesm 9y ago
    911 as the originator should have a pretty good pick-up rate. Nobody ever got called by them and yet I'd bet that it would work just fine.
    - Nition 9y ago
      This is the kind of thing where we start coming up with these ideas that might actually work, but then some Chinese bot calls you with the ID MOM 911 YOU HAVE WON EMERGENCY.
    - michaelbuckbee 9y ago
      Here in the US we do have "Reverse 911" (though I forget what number it calls from). I live in Virginia, but was in Louisiana and I got a call about a hostage situation with a shooter that was happening somewhat near my home address.
      - Waterluvian 9y ago
        What did they want? Just for you to stay inside?
wolco 9y ago
I thought yahoo was shut down.

115 points by Sami_Lehtinen 9y ago

This is basically the inevitable smashing together of Yahoo and AOL under Verizon. Cue misplaced 90's nostalgia in 3...2...

aorth 9y ago

> as of 18 September 2017, Yahoo and Oath plan to share some user information within the Verizon family of companies which will enable us to integrate our business, allowing us to coordinate more and improve your experiences. Might want to finally ditch your yahoo email address. ;)

jtokoph 9y ago

Let's say I run company A, and Company B wants to buy all of my user's information but I've already created policies that say I won't share user information with 3rd parties. Could I: 1. Create a subsidiary (Company C) 2. Share info 'internally' with company C 3. Sell Company C to Company B

skummetmaelk 9y ago
4. ??? 5. Laugh all the way to the bank.
- mkl 9y ago
  I don't think you need step 4.
terryjsmith 9y ago
Technically, of course you can, but practically, if someone sued, you would probably have a hard time convincing others that you are complying with your own policy. It's probably easier to just to change your ToS/privacy policy.
DannyBee 9y ago
In what sense are you asking if you "Can" do it. The FTC is fairly broadly empowered to stop deceptive practices, and most of the standards there are about what reasonable users would expect. So you may be able to work around a contract implicit or explicit, but in practice it's unlikely you would get away with it. Plus if you said this to a judge they'd laugh at you. They are not (and should not be) judging automatons.
carussell 9y ago
Sometimes programmers' minds get infected with the idea that the whole world, especially courts and regulatory agencies, are just little virtual machines that will dutifully execute based on whatever steps you lay out at the beginning. They're not. Machines can't call bullshit on you, but people will.
- Bartweiss 9y ago
  I think that comment makes the mistake twice over, even. First, because T&C are (usually) not an immutable contract - companies can just change them without any legal shenanigans at all. Then second because, as you say, actions taken just to circumvent laws are usually themselves illegal. It is pretty baffling to see how often programmers talk about law like it's an algorithm. Even the DAO didn't work out that way, and that was explicitly intended to turn contracts and law into algorithms. If that didn't resist social pressure to redress harms, why would we expect actual humans to do so? (And frankly, thank god the law doesn't work like that. I don't want to live in a world where legal loopholes open up as often as software vulnerabilities.)
ballenf 9y ago
Most privacy policies have an "out" only for acquisition of substantially all of the assets of the parent org. The reality is that if you're considering selling the golden goose of all your user data then you might as well just sell the business outright and be in 100% compliance without the expense of the proposed convolutions or risk of FTC ire. With not a damn thing your users can do short of trying to delete their accounts.
pbhjpbhj 9y ago
Usually there's a unilateral T&C alteration clause, so you can do what you like just change the terms first. Change them right back a microsecond later if you like? Just word it "not share with unrelated third parties" and it reads like "no sharing" but of course any party you're selling too is related by contract. No-one reads the terms really, well I'd guess <<1%? Probably what's needed is a general framework from law about not sharing without explicit consent banning the company; and that personal data expires in a company transfer/sale without consent (but perhaps a lower bar there).
richardwhiuk 9y ago
What policies have you created? How are those enforced? Are they even enforceable? Depending on how they are worded, either the share, and/oor the sale, and/or neither will break the policy

Animats 9y ago

We will share ... your account registration information (such as your user ID, gender, name, email address, postcode & age), your content and advertising interests, content associated with your account, the types of services you use and how you engage with them, cookie and device IDs, IP addresses, geolocation information and activity information from across our websites, apps, software and other services. All of the information that we collect about you may be shared across the various Oath brands and within our Verizon family of companies. To delete your Yahoo account, click here: https://help.yahoo.com/kb/SLN2044.html https://help.yahoo.com/kb/SLN2044.html

syntheticnature 9y ago
Note that Yahoo's account integration is weak and weird so you may wish to manually delete things linked to your account first. For example, if you have any Yahoo Groups you own, you should either delete them or transfer ownership first, as Yahoo has basically left that area on life support only and won't even promote a member to a moderator, let alone owner after a poll anymore -- so there are groups basically accumulating spam, with public posts that need to be deleted, or just unable to get new members.
soared 9y ago
A fun test would be to post the data sharing policy of various services/apps and see how often someone posts a comment like this. Someone always posts a comment like this and it always feels, to me, like a knee-jerk reaction. They've had your data for years (and were previously not only irresponsible but likely shared it with countless other partners), what has changed now? Just because Yahoo is forthecoming about that they're sharing data, rather than selling it and not telling, thats grounds to close your account? I'm not saying you shouldn't, just odd to always see this comment.
- ProAm 9y ago
  > They've had your data for years (and were previously not only irresponsible but likely shared it with countless other partners), what has changed now? To be honest, it's already in the wild when they where hacked and everything was stolen. 3 billion accounts. [1] [1] https://www.cnbc.com/2017/10/04/how-the-yahoo-hack-stacks-up-to-previous-data-breaches.html https://www.cnbc.com/2017/10/04/how-the-yahoo-hack-stacks-up...

humanrebar 9y ago

oath: noun; plural oaths ... 6. any profane expression; curse; swearword: "He slammed the door with a muttered oath." http://www.dictionary.com/browse/oath http://www.dictionary.com/browse/oath

drdeca 9y ago
Until I read this comment, I thought it was saying Yahoo had added Oauth support. Whoops. Thanks for the correction.
igravious 9y ago
Very clever, but … 2. a statement or promise strengthened by such an appeal. Oath promises to connect over a billion people to a stable of brands that they love. The is Oath's promise, feel the . “This is our promise to you. To connect your brand to over a billion crazy in love [in love with brands] people.“ https://www.oath.com/ https://www.oath.com/ [Can you kick it? Play video] It's in the barftastic marketing-speak copy in the video.

trurl 9y ago

Any suggestions for migrating away from Flickr while preserving my data? Google, etc. don't really seem like they will be any more ethical.

berbec 9y ago
1-user gsuite account. 1TB for $5/month
- trurl 9y ago
  GSuite would be Google. I don't think an advertising company is really going to be that much better than Verizon. And if I just want 1TB of online storage I have better options. The question was about a "photo sharing" application not unlike Flickr.
  - ZenoArrow 9y ago
    MediaGoblin perhaps? I've never used it (or Flickr) but it seems like it could be a good fit. https://mediagoblin.org/ https://mediagoblin.org/ https://mediagoblin.org/pages/tour.html https://mediagoblin.org/pages/tour.html
  - ghaff 9y ago
    SmugMug possibly although I haven’t looked at them in ages. Premium photosharing sort of fell out of favor as a product category. Honestly it’s CC search that I value most about Flickr though. I don’t really do the social aspects and I could always find an alternnative personal hosting option.
  - sethgecko 9y ago
    check out 500px
grantpalin 9y ago
I've been liking Flickr less and less with Yahoo's decline and the tie-in to Yahoo accounts. The only reason I have a Yahoo account is because it was required for Flickr. For my own uses, been thinking of self-hosting something like Zenphoto on a subdomain.

chipotle_coyote 9y ago

Look, I just want to know if this will lead to a fix of Yahoo's most dire problem: that abominable logo redesign.

orthecreedence 9y ago

Congratulations, Verizon, on the expansion of your propaganda platform. Net Neutrality doesn't stand a chance now!

personjerry 9y ago

tl;dr Verizon bought Yahoo

mpg515 9y ago

Q: Why am I receiving this notice? A: We would like to inform you in advance that, as of 18 September 2017, Yahoo and Oath plan to share some user information within the Verizon family of companies which will enable us to integrate our business, allowing us to coordinate more and improve your experiences. Hate to break it to you, but everyone has already shared Yahoo's user information

olivermarks 9y ago

'Yahoo is now part of Oath ' Congratulations on finally becoming a swearword instead of an excited yell

beat 9y ago
This comment wins the Internet today.
Bartweiss 9y ago
It's about time! I wonder when someone last used their products and cheered instead of swearing?

tomc1985 9y ago

Oath -- what a stupid name. Trying to invoke honor and valor. Ha!

Bartweiss 9y ago
I appreciate the name. They might have aimed for honor, but also invoked obscenity and that fits perfectly.
- ZenoArrow 9y ago
  Is it really an obscenity? Closest I've heard "oath" used as an obscenity is "bloody oath" or words to that affect, which means exactly the same as "damn right". Bloody and damn are both mild swear words, but haven't seen "oath" used as an obscenity in its own right.
- tomc1985 9y ago
  I have never heard the unmodified word "oath" used to indicate anything less than positive. Only very rarely is it used in any negative sense, and then almost always with some sort of descriptor -- "Bloody oath", as you say Are you from AU by chance? Urban Dictionary seems to indicate 'oath' is slang over there https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=oath https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=oath

distantsounds 9y ago

AOL and Yahoo, together at last. Because nobody likes to die alone.

thewunder 9y ago

I read this as part of OAuth Don't they already have some sort of Oauth support for their APIs? Oh wait...

jwilk 9y ago
My first thought was: https://openauthentication.org/ https://openauthentication.org/

hondo77 9y ago

...and the world yawns...

unsatchmo 9y ago

What the hell is "Yahoo"?

ourcat 9y ago

I really need to get my photos off Flickr.

valuearb 9y ago

Verizon just informed me of this fantastic new service they want to sell me where I can create my own caller id signature for my phone calls. They specifically state they aren't editing/approving them, so I can be "Princess Di" or "Donald Trump" if I want. Now I know why all my spam calls the last few days have been from people with full caller ID signatures that make it look like they are in my contacts already. These are the people in charge of protecting your private information at Yahoo.

Nition 9y ago
In that case I'd suggest "Mom" or "Dad" for maximum effectiveness. Oooh or maybe "YOU HAVE WON".
- jacquesm 9y ago
  911 as the originator should have a pretty good pick-up rate. Nobody ever got called by them and yet I'd bet that it would work just fine.
  - Nition 9y ago
    This is the kind of thing where we start coming up with these ideas that might actually work, but then some Chinese bot calls you with the ID MOM 911 YOU HAVE WON EMERGENCY.
  - michaelbuckbee 9y ago
    Here in the US we do have "Reverse 911" (though I forget what number it calls from). I live in Virginia, but was in Louisiana and I got a call about a hostage situation with a shooter that was happening somewhat near my home address.
    - Waterluvian 9y ago
      What did they want? Just for you to stay inside?

wolco 9y ago

I thought yahoo was shut down.