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Google Docs Is Randomly Flagging Files for Violating Its Terms of Service
- djsumdog 9y agoIt was nice when everything was saved in your PC .. unless you forgot to back things up. I think services like Dropbox/Mega are the happy medium. All the files are actually on your computer. If they go away, you don't lose your files, they just stop syncing. When you put all your crap "in the cloud" (rolls eyes), it means the services you like may stop working, or they could release a new crappy version with no ability to revert to the previous one.
- Piskvorrr 9y agoYup. "Nice files you have there. It would be a shame if something were to...happen...to them, right? Oh, and btw, we have another, more expensive, cloud tier, much safer, sure."
- nerdponx 9y agoSorta off-topic, but I have had nothing but positive experiences with Mega. They have an enormous 50GB free tier, but I've been thinking of upgrading anyway and just using it as a full backup for my media hard drive.
- jtokoph 9y agoI've read that Kim Dotcom as no involvement with the site anymore and it's been taken over by a combination of the NZ Gov't and Hollywood. He says he doesn't trust it. Whether he's just fuming or it's a legit concern of trust is up to you to decide.
- nerdponx 9y agoFigures it'd be too good to be true. Got any links for that? It really depends on what "trust" means in this case.
- MrMember 9y agoI use an encrypted container in Dropbox. I retain complete control over my files but they are still backed up, and Dropbox is smart enough to only upload the diff if something in the container changes. It's a little inconvenient in that I can't for example access individual files on my phone without a lot of hassle but overall it's an adequate solution for my needs.
- SugoiDev 9y agoA delta of changes in an encrypted container should be very close to the size of the full container, shouldn't? It seems this will only be feasible when we have homorphic encryption ready. If someone is interested on that kind of encryption, see "A FULLY HOMOMORPHIC ENCRYPTION SCHEME"[1] and "Fully Homomorphic Encryption without Bootstrapping "[2] [1] https://crypto.stanford.edu/craig/craig-thesis.pdf https://crypto.stanford.edu/craig/craig-thesis.pdf [2] https://eprint.iacr.org/2011/277.pdf https://eprint.iacr.org/2011/277.pdf
- maxton 9y agoThat would depend on the cipher mode, no? Assuming the container is using something like CTR, the diff should only consist of changed bytes.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- mikeash 9y agoAny encrypted disk image will work this way. It doesn’t require anything like homomorphic encryption, just a bit of metadata and key management.
- RasputinsBro 9y agoNo. AES encrypts blocks (I think 256kb?). So that's the only thing you have to sync.
- syrrim 9y ago
- mikeash 9y agoMake sure you have separate backups too. If Dropbox deletes a file from your account, the client will delete the file from your computer!
- mikenew 9y agoOne of the reasons I switched out of Dropbox was because they got rid of the version history feature, which I only learned about after desperately trying to recover an old file. I think now they give you 120 days of version history, but only if you pay for the newly created “professional” tier. I have a little Nextcloud server set up with unlimited file history now. Or at least it’s only limited by how many old hard drives I have plugged into it. Couldn’t be happier with my decision to switch.
- bllguo 9y agoSupposedly the free accounts still have 30 days: https://www.dropbox.com/help/security/version-history-overview https://www.dropbox.com/help/security/version-history-overvi... Nevertheless, definitely agree about version control being a killer feature. Might need to go down your route at some point.
- dingo_bat 9y agoOnedrive has a "Recycle Bin". Worked well when I needed to restore some accidentally deleted photos. But their paid tier is horribly priced. Ugh.
- brightball 9y agoAgreed. I like Dropbox Paper a lot too. Just a solid all around company.
- twiss 9y agoI made a Google Docs alternative where not only the documents are private, but you also have your own private installation of the app, even though it's hosted in the cloud: https://www.airbornos.com https://www.airbornos.com. If you enable "Notify me before updating Airborn OS" when registering, Airborn OS won't update for you unless you want it to. Theoretically, since you have your own installation, you could even modify the code you're running - but there's no UI for that yet.
- xelxebar 9y agoI keep a virtual server for precisely this reason. All my docs sit in a git repo and sync to the server. It even works for binary stuff with git-annex! I know this kind of thing isn't for everyone, but I love it.
- monksy 9y agoThis is what happens when you tolerate walled gardens.
- cft 9y agoWhen will they start flagging Gmail accounts and locking you out from Android phones?
- 5ilv3r 9y agoThat happens to me often. When my home ip changes and k9 mail connects for the first time to gmail, they always lock my account out until I log in from a desktop they recognize. Freaky freaky.
- duality 9y agoI actually like it when services that host my data have some protection against unrecognized devices accessing it.
- 5ilv3r 9y agoIt'd be great if it worked right.
- RasputinsBro 9y agoI disagree. It should treat unrecognized devices as any device. In other words, it shouldn't remember devices. Because you know, privacy. The only thing I ask these services is that they won't let anyone in who doesn't have the right password. I think it's not too much to ask.
- shallot_router 9y agoIn terms of user security, that's just not a good idea. Google has likely prevented an absurd number of account compromises (and therefore identity theft, fraud, personal information leakage, espionage...) by recognizing logins from new devices and unfamiliar locations. Google's user account security practices are pretty much the best in the business. It's silly to think Google doesn't already know everything about every device you log in from, so that horse is already out of the barn and running on the highway privacy-wise. They might as well use that information to actually protect their users since they're already using it for advertising.
- s3r3nity 9y agoI don't know if it's fair to say that they are "randomly" flagging items - I'm guessing they're using a similar set of tools that they use to algorithmically determine if, say, Youtube videos violate their TOS. Probably a recent update / bug increased the number of false positives more than expected. Not that I'm sympathizing with Google - just seeing if there's a less click-baity reason for what's going on.
- confounded 9y agoWell, even a PRNG is deterministic at some level. I think it’s a fine descriptor given the context.
- mikeash 9y agoI think “randomly” is being used here in the sense of “without a good reason.” Regardless of how the content gets classified, they shouldn’t be policing private files.
- duality 9y agoThe anecdata from Twitter were stories about shared docs getting flagged as a ToS violation. Did anyone see the false ToS violation on a totally private, unshared file?
- mikeash 9y agoWhere do you get that from? I randomly checked a few of the tweets and didn't see anything about shared. Nothing about private, either, but that seems like a reasonable default assumption.
- billsmithaustin 9y agoYup. It's a big leap from "Google has a bug" to "you don't control any of your content on the Internet."
- lightedman 9y agoThis means Google is scanning your stuff one way or another. How much would one like to bet that they're surreptitiously stealing secrets to use to make money?
- lightedman 9y ago"Google Drive Terms of Service [google.com] We may review your conduct and content in Google Drive for compliance with the Terms and our Program Policies. When you upload, submit, store, send or receive content to or through Google Drive, you give Google a worldwide license to use, host, store, reproduce, modify, create derivative works (such as those resulting from translations, adaptations or other changes we make so that your content works better with our services), communicate, publish, publicly perform, publicly display and distribute such content. The rights you grant in this license are for the limited purpose of operating, promoting, and improving our services, and to develop new ones. This license continues even if you stop using our services unless you delete your content. Make sure you have the necessary rights to grant us this license for any content that you submit to Google Drive." Oh, look, right there it says they can use your stuff for pretty much anything. Funny how many of the people having their file access suspended are people in the middle of very large important projects or journalism reports. Oh, would you look at that! One of my accounts which is used for my energy efficiency research is suspended. And my LED lighting. That's pretty suspicious.
- Nilef 9y agoScary stuff and can only hurt Google's move to become your go-to office suite. Imagine your PC decided which files it did and didn't like and removed them without your permission? Sounds like the reality now if you own a Chromebook.
- jasonkostempski 9y agoI wouldn't be surprised if it ever started happening with Windows/Office, they already have tools that scan for unlicensed media.
- adventured 9y agoMicrosoft has an extremely long history of doing business with companies from small to very large enterprises in size. Google as a productivity software company that deals with business clients, is still using training wheels by comparison. Why does that matter? Microsoft is less likely to make mistakes like this around any of their productivity tools businesses (including storage). Besides that, Google is currently on a fanatical binge about censoring content they disagree with. Microsoft is not, which vastly reduces the likelihood of such a mistake in the first place.
- j_s 9y agoArticle provides a good chunk of insight beyond the original tweet currently with less discussion on the front page: Draft of a story about wildlife crime was frozen for violating Google Docs' TOS | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15593750 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15593750
- interstitial 9y agoAll thought we all decided false positives in the name of punching Nazis was OK? I can't keep up anymore. Can some enterprising young start-up come up with a HN browser plugin so I can know when it's OK to censor?
- mankash666 9y agoRegardless of the bug, we need a service that cannot read your docs/email/data. GSuite has to be the most paradoxical Google product - you pay Google and "trust" them to not go through your company data!
- duality 9y agoWere GSuite customers affected?
- kevin_thibedeau 9y agoAs opposed to Office 365?
- mankash666 9y agoOffice 365 reads your data. They just don't advertise against it because their ad business isn't significant
- danso 9y agoWhy would their ad strategy, or lack thereof, prevent them from enforcing TOS in their document tools as Google apparently does?
- mrweasel 9y agoWhen stuff like this happens at Google it's tempting to think that it is in fact random, and Google uses complaints as feedback for their derp-learning algorithms in order to become better at finding content that is truly violating their terms of service.
- photojosh 9y ago> Google ... derp-learning algorithms Probably a typo, but I laughed pretty hard. You're not wrong.
- Animats 9y agoThis is something you'd expect in China, not the US. It raises real questions about whether Chromebooks are viable for business. All your data are belong to us.