8 ms·

It’s exactly this attitude of just get it done that has reignited Microsoft. They probably get flack for this, but it shows they’re focused more on results.

by MR4D 9y ago

ducttape12 9y ago
A lot of people in tech (myself included) would benefit greatly from this attitude. How many people get caught up arguing over minutia in tech, such as which distro to use, or which editor to use, or which way to do something when all options are perfectly fine? I'm not saying cut corners, but instead keep your focus on what's important.
- davehtaylor 9y ago
  I think there's a massive problem in recent times of an over-zealous focus on procedures and the "how" of a particular process. I think process-driven management results in micro-managing tyrants, over-stressed, over-worked employees, poor efficiency, and poor results. We need to focus on results. Who cares about the process, as long as it works, and the people doing it are happy?
Klathmon 9y ago
I've talked to some people on the team who works on Edge, and they are a fantastic group of people. They know they are in an uphill battle, and everyone is writing them off, but they are doing damn good work. Edge's performance is getting leaps and bounds faster every update, they are doing incredible things for battery life on many devices, they are catching up to google for web API support, and nobody is taking them seriously. I know nothing about what it's like to work at microsoft, but whatever they are doing with the Edge team is working. They know their product isn't perfect (what is?), and they are just trying their damn hardest to make it better.
- revmoo 9y ago
  > nobody is taking them seriously Because it's 2017 and I'm STILL having to write workarounds for IE.
  - manigandham 9y ago
    This is absolutely valid criticism. Of course the devteam is "good people", but the issue remains that Edge created yet another browser fork while IE11 is still around and actively used. Also Edge is still behind with several features (like server-sent events). For those saying Edge is different than IE, is there even an IE team anymore or did they just become the Edge team now? Either way the development strategy is not great.
    - rk06 9y ago
      And let's not forget the worst thing about this: __Edge can't be installed on windows 8.1 or less__ By far, this is stopping most users from leaving IE.
      - WorldMaker 9y ago
        No one is using Windows 8.1, statistically speaking anymore, and Windows 7 only has 3 years left of security fixes remaining.
        leeoniya 9y ago
        we have 7.5% IE11 traffic on our ecommerce site (US, diy home remodeling). more than Edge which is ~5%. 7.5% is a huge number.
        WorldMaker 9y ago
        IE11 traffic includes Windows 7 users. Windows 8.1 users is a tiny fraction of that 7.5% as most of that is likely Windows 7 since that's the new Windows XP that corporations will use for as long as it has security support because they are afraid of change. ETA: Plus the people that missed the Windows 10 free upgrade for Windows 7 (intentionally or accidentally).
- tyingq 9y ago
  Edge for Android and iOS is an interesting move: https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2017/10/05/announcing-microsoft-edge-for-ios-and-android-microsoft-launcher/ https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2017/10/05/annou... I like the role reversal where an MS browser on a Google OS might have merit...like being able to run ad blocking extensions.
  - schlipity 9y ago
    It's a good bit ludicrous that they are providing Edge for IOS / Android but not for previous versions of Windows. My life as a programmer would be better if I didn't have to support IE11 / Windows 7, but instead of doing that, they spent some time getting it running where no one wants it.
    - Klathmon 9y ago
      Edge for android and iOS use the built-in rendering engines on each platform. Edge for Android is using Blink, Edge for iOS is using Webkit. They could give you "Edge for windows 7" but it wouldn't be the same rendering engine from Edge on windows 10.
      - earenndil 9y ago
        ...except that they could? It would probably be simple to port the engine from win10 to win7, in a way that it wouldn't be to port it to a completely different os that is also mobile.
    - tw04 9y ago
      Mainstream support for Windows 7 ended in 2015. Do you also want them to support edge on Android 4.3? Or are you a little more pragmatic in expecting users to update more than once every 7 years?
      - MagnumOpus 9y ago
        If you refuse to make your app installable on your own OS that half of the world's desktop computers are running, you don't need to wonder that it is not gaining market share.
- jrs95 9y ago
  I wish I could actually take advantage of the great stuff they're doing, but it's still just too unstable and I have issues on too many websites. Every time I try to use Edge I end up switching back to Chrome within a week.
- forgot-my-pw 9y ago
  If only Microsoft lets older Windows to install Edge. Yet they are stuck with IE. The only way to use Edge is to upgrade to Windows 10.
  - Klathmon 9y ago
    IIRC it's because the APIs that Edge uses are only in 10.
    - notl4wy3r 9y ago
      That's all well and good, but somehow every other browser manages to run on Windows versions before 10. It's kinda bad that Edge cannot.
      - Klathmon 9y ago
        But it's a goal of those browsers to run cross-platform, it's explicitly not a goal of Edge. Just like how it's not a valid criticism to say that it's bad that Boeing can't make cars. They aren't trying to...
        magicalist 9y ago
        > If only Microsoft lets older Windows to install Edge. > But it's...explicitly not a goal of Edge. No criticism sticks if we just define it as a non-goal :P I think the criticism was for that decision itself.
        Klathmon 9y ago
        And if you get to define what someone else's goal is you can stick any criticism.
      - nogbit 9y ago
        It's kinda bad that Edge cannot run on multiple platforms, until that happens it will keep getting the same (or less) use.
- Sir_Cmpwn 9y ago
  I would take them significantly more seriously if they open sourced the browser. All of their accomplishments may be impressive but it's a moot point if they're all being kept to themselves.
  - Klathmon 9y ago
    They are getting there. They already open sourced their js engine [0] and some parts of the rendering engine like the WebGL stuff [1]. I remember reading that it's a goal of them that they want to open source it, but it's not an overnight process. [0] https://github.com/Microsoft/ChakraCore https://github.com/Microsoft/ChakraCore [1] https://github.com/MicrosoftEdge/WebGL https://github.com/MicrosoftEdge/WebGL
    - Sir_Cmpwn 9y ago
      ChakraCore is definitely a step in the right direction. Kudos for that. Their WebGL thing isn't, though. That's just a code dump, a year outdated, with no history. It's still developed in private and isn't getting updates.
- jeromenerf 9y ago
  > nobody is taking them seriously Chrome and Firefox run on Mac and various unices. Edge is just a pain to take seriously for me, a « various unices » user.
- zamalek 9y ago
  > they are doing damn good work. I've been using it for a while. Overall, it feels significantly faster than any Chromium-based browser I've used. Chrome, Brave, etc. are simply no longer good enough. That being said, I'm considering switching to Quantum. Edge breaks the 1Password plugin[1] and Microsoft is closing the bugs "as designed" or they have lost all traction. Breaking a password manager relegates the entire browser to non-starter, it doesn't matter at all how good your other features are. [1]: https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-edge/platform/issues/13031516/ https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-edge/platfor... , https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-edge/platform/issues/11320212/ https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-edge/platfor...
  - TylerH 9y ago
    Was Brave ever good enough? I thought it was just Brendan Eich's swan song
    - zamalek 9y ago
      I used it for a very long time and loved it. It's perceptually faster/more lightweight than Chrome, I think that's a goal? The adblocker was workable, but nowhere near uBlock. It's close but noticeably slower than Edge. Firefox on mobile is an utter trainsmash, so I use it there out of necessity (Chrome doesn't have add-ons/adblockers).
1_2__4 9y ago
Maybe from a tech perspective yes. From a marketing and PR perspective this was a disaster of epic proportions.

It’s exactly this attitude of just get it done that has reignited Microsoft. They probably get flack for this, but it shows they’re focused more on results.

by MR4D 9y ago

It’s exactly this attitude of just get it done that has reignited Microsoft. They probably get flack for this, but it shows they’re focused more on results.

ducttape12 9y ago

A lot of people in tech (myself included) would benefit greatly from this attitude. How many people get caught up arguing over minutia in tech, such as which distro to use, or which editor to use, or which way to do something when all options are perfectly fine? I'm not saying cut corners, but instead keep your focus on what's important.

davehtaylor 9y ago
I think there's a massive problem in recent times of an over-zealous focus on procedures and the "how" of a particular process. I think process-driven management results in micro-managing tyrants, over-stressed, over-worked employees, poor efficiency, and poor results. We need to focus on results. Who cares about the process, as long as it works, and the people doing it are happy?

Klathmon 9y ago

I've talked to some people on the team who works on Edge, and they are a fantastic group of people. They know they are in an uphill battle, and everyone is writing them off, but they are doing damn good work. Edge's performance is getting leaps and bounds faster every update, they are doing incredible things for battery life on many devices, they are catching up to google for web API support, and nobody is taking them seriously. I know nothing about what it's like to work at microsoft, but whatever they are doing with the Edge team is working. They know their product isn't perfect (what is?), and they are just trying their damn hardest to make it better.

revmoo 9y ago
> nobody is taking them seriously Because it's 2017 and I'm STILL having to write workarounds for IE.
- manigandham 9y ago
  This is absolutely valid criticism. Of course the devteam is "good people", but the issue remains that Edge created yet another browser fork while IE11 is still around and actively used. Also Edge is still behind with several features (like server-sent events). For those saying Edge is different than IE, is there even an IE team anymore or did they just become the Edge team now? Either way the development strategy is not great.
  - rk06 9y ago
    And let's not forget the worst thing about this: __Edge can't be installed on windows 8.1 or less__ By far, this is stopping most users from leaving IE.
    - WorldMaker 9y ago
      No one is using Windows 8.1, statistically speaking anymore, and Windows 7 only has 3 years left of security fixes remaining.
      - leeoniya 9y ago
        we have 7.5% IE11 traffic on our ecommerce site (US, diy home remodeling). more than Edge which is ~5%. 7.5% is a huge number.
        WorldMaker 9y ago
        IE11 traffic includes Windows 7 users. Windows 8.1 users is a tiny fraction of that 7.5% as most of that is likely Windows 7 since that's the new Windows XP that corporations will use for as long as it has security support because they are afraid of change. ETA: Plus the people that missed the Windows 10 free upgrade for Windows 7 (intentionally or accidentally).
tyingq 9y ago
Edge for Android and iOS is an interesting move: https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2017/10/05/announcing-microsoft-edge-for-ios-and-android-microsoft-launcher/ https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2017/10/05/annou... I like the role reversal where an MS browser on a Google OS might have merit...like being able to run ad blocking extensions.
- schlipity 9y ago
  It's a good bit ludicrous that they are providing Edge for IOS / Android but not for previous versions of Windows. My life as a programmer would be better if I didn't have to support IE11 / Windows 7, but instead of doing that, they spent some time getting it running where no one wants it.
  - Klathmon 9y ago
    Edge for android and iOS use the built-in rendering engines on each platform. Edge for Android is using Blink, Edge for iOS is using Webkit. They could give you "Edge for windows 7" but it wouldn't be the same rendering engine from Edge on windows 10.
    - earenndil 9y ago
      ...except that they could? It would probably be simple to port the engine from win10 to win7, in a way that it wouldn't be to port it to a completely different os that is also mobile.
  - tw04 9y ago
    Mainstream support for Windows 7 ended in 2015. Do you also want them to support edge on Android 4.3? Or are you a little more pragmatic in expecting users to update more than once every 7 years?
    - MagnumOpus 9y ago
      If you refuse to make your app installable on your own OS that half of the world's desktop computers are running, you don't need to wonder that it is not gaining market share.
jrs95 9y ago
I wish I could actually take advantage of the great stuff they're doing, but it's still just too unstable and I have issues on too many websites. Every time I try to use Edge I end up switching back to Chrome within a week.
forgot-my-pw 9y ago
If only Microsoft lets older Windows to install Edge. Yet they are stuck with IE. The only way to use Edge is to upgrade to Windows 10.
- Klathmon 9y ago
  IIRC it's because the APIs that Edge uses are only in 10.
  - notl4wy3r 9y ago
    That's all well and good, but somehow every other browser manages to run on Windows versions before 10. It's kinda bad that Edge cannot.
    - Klathmon 9y ago
      But it's a goal of those browsers to run cross-platform, it's explicitly not a goal of Edge. Just like how it's not a valid criticism to say that it's bad that Boeing can't make cars. They aren't trying to...
      - magicalist 9y ago
        > If only Microsoft lets older Windows to install Edge. > But it's...explicitly not a goal of Edge. No criticism sticks if we just define it as a non-goal :P I think the criticism was for that decision itself.
        Klathmon 9y ago
        And if you get to define what someone else's goal is you can stick any criticism.
    - nogbit 9y ago
      It's kinda bad that Edge cannot run on multiple platforms, until that happens it will keep getting the same (or less) use.
Sir_Cmpwn 9y ago
I would take them significantly more seriously if they open sourced the browser. All of their accomplishments may be impressive but it's a moot point if they're all being kept to themselves.
- Klathmon 9y ago
  They are getting there. They already open sourced their js engine [0] and some parts of the rendering engine like the WebGL stuff [1]. I remember reading that it's a goal of them that they want to open source it, but it's not an overnight process. [0] https://github.com/Microsoft/ChakraCore https://github.com/Microsoft/ChakraCore [1] https://github.com/MicrosoftEdge/WebGL https://github.com/MicrosoftEdge/WebGL
  - Sir_Cmpwn 9y ago
    ChakraCore is definitely a step in the right direction. Kudos for that. Their WebGL thing isn't, though. That's just a code dump, a year outdated, with no history. It's still developed in private and isn't getting updates.
jeromenerf 9y ago
> nobody is taking them seriously Chrome and Firefox run on Mac and various unices. Edge is just a pain to take seriously for me, a « various unices » user.
zamalek 9y ago
> they are doing damn good work. I've been using it for a while. Overall, it feels significantly faster than any Chromium-based browser I've used. Chrome, Brave, etc. are simply no longer good enough. That being said, I'm considering switching to Quantum. Edge breaks the 1Password plugin[1] and Microsoft is closing the bugs "as designed" or they have lost all traction. Breaking a password manager relegates the entire browser to non-starter, it doesn't matter at all how good your other features are. [1]: https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-edge/platform/issues/13031516/ https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-edge/platfor... , https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-edge/platform/issues/11320212/ https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-edge/platfor...
- TylerH 9y ago
  Was Brave ever good enough? I thought it was just Brendan Eich's swan song
  - zamalek 9y ago
    I used it for a very long time and loved it. It's perceptually faster/more lightweight than Chrome, I think that's a goal? The adblocker was workable, but nowhere near uBlock. It's close but noticeably slower than Edge. Firefox on mobile is an utter trainsmash, so I use it there out of necessity (Chrome doesn't have add-ons/adblockers).

1_2__4 9y ago

Maybe from a tech perspective yes. From a marketing and PR perspective this was a disaster of epic proportions.