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I have hired a few H1-Bs, and here is how the first step goes: Before you file for a H1-B visa with USCIS, employer needs to get Department of Labor (DOL) cert

I have hired a few H1-Bs, and here is how the first step goes: Before you file for a H1-B visa with USCIS, employer needs to get Department of Labor (DOL) certification. Employers have to advertise the job in local media for 30 days. Jobs have to offer median salary for the given skill based on DOL numbers (Roughly $104K per year). All resumes received, and interview notes must be included in DOL application for labor certification. If a qualified American applied for the job, DOL rejects the certification request. I would love to hear where you see a material flaw in this process. To me it signifies there is a real talent shortage.

deleted 9y ago
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majormajor 9y ago
The way I've seen people bypass these requirements is by advertising a highly specific job with attributes very few people will match exactly.
dominotw 9y ago
Flaw is this: employers are guaranteed loyalty on h1b for that price. So a local cannot compete with that /
- supergarfield 9y ago
  This is not really true: the main limiting factor with H1-B visas is the yearly cap; as others have said, the rest of the requirements are normally easy to check off (especially if you already have an H1-B). Since you are not subject to the H1-B cap when reapplying if you are already on an H1-B, and since there is so much demand for tech jobs, it's not clear that H1-B tech workers have to be loyal to their employer.
  - dominotw 9y ago
    you have to be loyal once you apply for your green card. most ppl on h1b don't want to leave after 6 yrs so they apply for their greencards.
raincom 9y ago
Here is the flaw, material or otherwise: (a) companies post jobs with descriptions that filter out all but the candidate they are filing for DOL certification. Next time, look at your company postings with exacting requirements: 3 yrs of experience in the stack A, 5 years in the language X, 6 years in Y, etc. That's how the game is played. (b) During green card processing, I have seen companies setting up fake interviews only to disqualify whoever comes for the interview. I was a victim of that.
- ActsJuvenile 9y ago
  I have seen pretty much every company be guilty of (a), so it is hard to regulate it away. (b) seems downright malicious and/or stupid. Why conduct fake interviews if employer is going to pay the same amount? Especially when you future foreign worker won't be able to work for you till next October at the earliest?
  - raincom 9y ago
    (b) is to file I-140 for those who have been already on H1B. If I were an employer, and if I wanna apply for I-140 for one of my employees who is on H1B, I need to do that.
jldugger 9y ago
> Employers have to advertise the job in local media for 30 days So like, newspapers nobody reads? A website you really hope nobody finds? There's a wide variety of strategies to claim you found no applicants. Don't have to take my word for it, consultants at Cohen & Grigsby go in far more detail: https://web.archive.org/web/20150725212924/http://www.ethicsscoreboard.com/dunces/0708_lebowitz.html https://web.archive.org/web/20150725212924/http://www.ethics...
- ActsJuvenile 9y ago
  This is why DOL review is part of the process. Reviewer will reject the application if you are publishing IT job ads on FarmersMingle.com.
  - jldugger 9y ago
    How about the Mercury News?
lowbloodsugar 9y ago
Local media. Median salary.
perryh2 9y ago
I have worked at companies in the past that actively rejected all applicants (Americans included) to the job postings, even if they were qualified. These were entry/mid-level PM and software engineering positions.
pandaman 9y ago
> Employers have to advertise the job in local media for 30 days. Are you sure? It's only true if by "local media" you literally mean a piece of paper on a board in the break room. >All resumes received, and interview notes must be included in DOL application for labor certification. You are definitely confusing PERM with H1B. PERM (certification for EBGC) requires advertising, interviewing and is, essentially, a process of proving that there are no Citizens or Resident Aliens willing to take the job. For H1B DOL just certifies that the wages you are paying are adequate for the position. Plus there is a requirement to inform your own employees about the H1Bs, which is done by positing these jobs in "local media" (in one company I've seen those posted in a closet, which also contained a soda machine so it had some foot traffic).
nradov 9y ago
I don't think you understand what the word "shortage" means. A shortage logically cannot persist in a free market unless some external factor is artificially constraining supply or restricting prices. There is no supply constraint; unlike physicians or lawyers there is no formal training or certification required for software developers (outside of a few secret or safety-critical positions). And the government hasn't placed any limits on salaries. If there was a true shortage then we would be seeing huge increases in compensation, which obviously isn't happening. Perhaps you're just not willing to pay the market clearing price. As for talent, that's basically a myth. https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2002/07/22/the-talent-myth https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2002/07/22/the-talent-myt...

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

majormajor 9y ago

The way I've seen people bypass these requirements is by advertising a highly specific job with attributes very few people will match exactly.

dominotw 9y ago

Flaw is this: employers are guaranteed loyalty on h1b for that price. So a local cannot compete with that /

supergarfield 9y ago
This is not really true: the main limiting factor with H1-B visas is the yearly cap; as others have said, the rest of the requirements are normally easy to check off (especially if you already have an H1-B). Since you are not subject to the H1-B cap when reapplying if you are already on an H1-B, and since there is so much demand for tech jobs, it's not clear that H1-B tech workers have to be loyal to their employer.
- dominotw 9y ago
  you have to be loyal once you apply for your green card. most ppl on h1b don't want to leave after 6 yrs so they apply for their greencards.

raincom 9y ago

Here is the flaw, material or otherwise: (a) companies post jobs with descriptions that filter out all but the candidate they are filing for DOL certification. Next time, look at your company postings with exacting requirements: 3 yrs of experience in the stack A, 5 years in the language X, 6 years in Y, etc. That's how the game is played. (b) During green card processing, I have seen companies setting up fake interviews only to disqualify whoever comes for the interview. I was a victim of that.

ActsJuvenile 9y ago
I have seen pretty much every company be guilty of (a), so it is hard to regulate it away. (b) seems downright malicious and/or stupid. Why conduct fake interviews if employer is going to pay the same amount? Especially when you future foreign worker won't be able to work for you till next October at the earliest?
- raincom 9y ago
  (b) is to file I-140 for those who have been already on H1B. If I were an employer, and if I wanna apply for I-140 for one of my employees who is on H1B, I need to do that.

jldugger 9y ago

> Employers have to advertise the job in local media for 30 days So like, newspapers nobody reads? A website you really hope nobody finds? There's a wide variety of strategies to claim you found no applicants. Don't have to take my word for it, consultants at Cohen & Grigsby go in far more detail: https://web.archive.org/web/20150725212924/http://www.ethicsscoreboard.com/dunces/0708_lebowitz.html https://web.archive.org/web/20150725212924/http://www.ethics...

ActsJuvenile 9y ago
This is why DOL review is part of the process. Reviewer will reject the application if you are publishing IT job ads on FarmersMingle.com.
- jldugger 9y ago
  How about the Mercury News?

lowbloodsugar 9y ago

Local media. Median salary.

perryh2 9y ago

I have worked at companies in the past that actively rejected all applicants (Americans included) to the job postings, even if they were qualified. These were entry/mid-level PM and software engineering positions.

pandaman 9y ago

> Employers have to advertise the job in local media for 30 days. Are you sure? It's only true if by "local media" you literally mean a piece of paper on a board in the break room. >All resumes received, and interview notes must be included in DOL application for labor certification. You are definitely confusing PERM with H1B. PERM (certification for EBGC) requires advertising, interviewing and is, essentially, a process of proving that there are no Citizens or Resident Aliens willing to take the job. For H1B DOL just certifies that the wages you are paying are adequate for the position. Plus there is a requirement to inform your own employees about the H1Bs, which is done by positing these jobs in "local media" (in one company I've seen those posted in a closet, which also contained a soda machine so it had some foot traffic).

nradov 9y ago

I don't think you understand what the word "shortage" means. A shortage logically cannot persist in a free market unless some external factor is artificially constraining supply or restricting prices. There is no supply constraint; unlike physicians or lawyers there is no formal training or certification required for software developers (outside of a few secret or safety-critical positions). And the government hasn't placed any limits on salaries. If there was a true shortage then we would be seeing huge increases in compensation, which obviously isn't happening. Perhaps you're just not willing to pay the market clearing price. As for talent, that's basically a myth. https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2002/07/22/the-talent-myth https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2002/07/22/the-talent-myt...