5 ms·

Right, like the example from Target. It is possible that facebook has access to a stream of Target purchases or credit card purchase information. I'd be 0% su

Right, like the example from Target. It is possible that facebook has access to a stream of Target purchases or credit card purchase information. I'd be 0% surprised if there was a data sharing agreement with credit rating companies. Even if they just knew the price of the purchase, combined with the job (burn risk) and location data (traveled from work to nearest store with pharmacy during the day), it's possible that you might be able to infer a burn with enough accuracy to be valuable to advertisers.

m_ke 9y ago
https://www.digitaltrends.com/social-media/facebook-partners-with-datalogix-to-track-offline-retail-purchases/ https://www.digitaltrends.com/social-media/facebook-partners... https://facebookmarketingpartners.com/marketing-partners/oracle-data-cloud/ https://facebookmarketingpartners.com/marketing-partners/ora... http://adage.com/article/digital/facebook-partner-acxiom-epsilon-match-store-purchases-user-profiles/239967/ http://adage.com/article/digital/facebook-partner-acxiom-eps...
branchless 9y ago
My suspicion on this is that stores offer "reward cards" so they can get you to sign something that allows them to gather and sell your data.
- TAForObvReasons 9y ago
  Rewards cards / loyalty card are designed to incentivize you to spend more with the stores. Ostensibly reselling data is a lot less valuable than directly trying to convince you to shop more at their establishments
  - reaperducer 9y ago
    That was true at the beginning of the loyalty card phage. But now the big chains are learning how to data mine and discovering the value of their data to others. Now your loyalty card data is worth twice as much. Once to the retailer for internal marketing, targeting, purchasing, etc... and again selling it to outside parties.
    - branchless 9y ago
      thanks, sorry to reply to this late. I often wonder if I take a loyalty card and then for example I purchase twice as much double cream as the next person, does this get sold to health insurers who then charge me a higher premium? The permutations are endless eg too much beer. too many condoms. Too much spicy dip.
- propogandist 9y ago
  If you read the Walgreens Rewards privacy policy, it covers everything from retail transactions to security camera footage and they are able to tie everything together. They're also able to gather and sell data about your health, which would otherwise be protected by regulation using the rewards program, especially as people are incentivized to use the card, even for prescriptions...and no one actually reads [between the lines] of the privacy policy
- dx034 9y ago
  That's true and credit card companies are very open about it (at least if you read their reports for investors). The advantage of store cards is that the store knows exactly which products you bought, whereas they only know the total if you used a Mastercard/Visa.
  - libertyEQ 9y ago
    >whereas they only know the total if you used a Mastercard/Visa This is simply not true with respect to the big retailers in the US. This started as far back as '06, though the details of the implementation have changed a bit.
    - dx034 9y ago
      Only if it's a co-branded card. If you use your Visa issued by some bank to go shopping at Walmart, they won't get your personal details together with all items you bought. They can get the items but without the personal details (including age, wealth, etc), they're not that useful.
      - libertyEQ 9y ago
        We had the ability to do this at the largest merchant acquirer 10 years ago as long as your bank signed up. Walmart was one of the first customers and would stream SKU-level data straight to our servers from the POS terminal.
- IshKebab 9y ago
  I always thought they were up front about that being true. At least for the 1% off cards that supermarkets offer.
- mathw 9y ago
  If you look at the history of the Tesco Clubcard (one of the early ones to appear in the UK), the data they mined from their new ability to tie purchasing trends to customers more than made up for the cost of the rewards being offered to get people to use it. There's a reason they got so dominant over here - they were simply way ahead of the game on offering what their customers actually wanted, because they were the only people who actually had a clue. That has of course changed now.
underwater 9y ago
I'm sure Facebook would like to do what you're saying, but I think that they're a long way from having those capabilities. They have billions of users, billions of ads, and trillions of pieces of metadata. Sifting through that to produce a guess like "User 1234 burned themselves and would be interested in product 5678" would be an amazing and scary piece of AI. Not to mention that Facebook are limited by the ads they can sell. The manufacturer of the burn cream doesn't give Facebook a bucket of money and free reign. They choose how and where the ads are shown. There is currently no option for "Users who recently burned themselves".
- halflings 9y ago
  Patterns like these can definitely be inferred by machine learning, with well principled models. P(product_class=bandage | job=factory_worker, pharmacy_visit_last_month=1) >> P(product_class=bandage)
- tfinniga 9y ago
  Last year there were 29,000 categories that could be targeted. If an ad sales rep wanted to close a deal, how difficult would it be to add one more for recent burn victims, or people who recently bought a specific product? From the links that m_ke posted, facebook already has ties to loyalty card information, so it's very possible that they didn't need to do any inference, they just had the data directly. In any case, the main point is that facebook doesn't need to listen to what people are saying, it has a ton of other data streams that could explain the stories in the link.
  - hellweaver666 9y ago
    What would the point be in advertising a burn cream to someone that just bought a burn cream? It's not like it's a common reoccurring purchase (like Toothpaste for example). Like the article says, it's probably just the Baader-Meinhof phenomenon* at work. It's like when you buy a new car - you suddenly start seeing that same model of car everywhere. * https://www.damninteresting.com/the-baader-meinhof-phenomenon/ https://www.damninteresting.com/the-baader-meinhof-phenomeno...
raspasov 9y ago
"It is possible that facebook has access to a stream of Target purchases" ... It's not possible, it's simply true. In fact, this feature of the facebook ad platform is available to any advertiser on Facebook/Instagram/etc, whether you have $100 to spend or $100M. You simply upload your customer's purchases to Facebook with data such as zip code, email, etc etc which Facebook then uses to optimize your advertising budget and find more customers similar to the ones you already have (the feature is called look-alike audiences).
nawtacawp 9y ago
"Google said that it captures around 70% of credit and debit card transactions in the US." source: http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-40027706 http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-40027706 If Google has access, I am sure Facebook does it.
underwoodley 9y ago
Also, Googling something on your phone is so common and easy nowadays that people just forget that they did it. It's literally become an integral part of the thinking process.

m_ke 9y ago

https://www.digitaltrends.com/social-media/facebook-partners-with-datalogix-to-track-offline-retail-purchases/ https://www.digitaltrends.com/social-media/facebook-partners... https://facebookmarketingpartners.com/marketing-partners/oracle-data-cloud/ https://facebookmarketingpartners.com/marketing-partners/ora... http://adage.com/article/digital/facebook-partner-acxiom-epsilon-match-store-purchases-user-profiles/239967/ http://adage.com/article/digital/facebook-partner-acxiom-eps...

branchless 9y ago

My suspicion on this is that stores offer "reward cards" so they can get you to sign something that allows them to gather and sell your data.

TAForObvReasons 9y ago
Rewards cards / loyalty card are designed to incentivize you to spend more with the stores. Ostensibly reselling data is a lot less valuable than directly trying to convince you to shop more at their establishments
- reaperducer 9y ago
  That was true at the beginning of the loyalty card phage. But now the big chains are learning how to data mine and discovering the value of their data to others. Now your loyalty card data is worth twice as much. Once to the retailer for internal marketing, targeting, purchasing, etc... and again selling it to outside parties.
  - branchless 9y ago
    thanks, sorry to reply to this late. I often wonder if I take a loyalty card and then for example I purchase twice as much double cream as the next person, does this get sold to health insurers who then charge me a higher premium? The permutations are endless eg too much beer. too many condoms. Too much spicy dip.
propogandist 9y ago
If you read the Walgreens Rewards privacy policy, it covers everything from retail transactions to security camera footage and they are able to tie everything together. They're also able to gather and sell data about your health, which would otherwise be protected by regulation using the rewards program, especially as people are incentivized to use the card, even for prescriptions...and no one actually reads [between the lines] of the privacy policy
dx034 9y ago
That's true and credit card companies are very open about it (at least if you read their reports for investors). The advantage of store cards is that the store knows exactly which products you bought, whereas they only know the total if you used a Mastercard/Visa.
- libertyEQ 9y ago
  >whereas they only know the total if you used a Mastercard/Visa This is simply not true with respect to the big retailers in the US. This started as far back as '06, though the details of the implementation have changed a bit.
  - dx034 9y ago
    Only if it's a co-branded card. If you use your Visa issued by some bank to go shopping at Walmart, they won't get your personal details together with all items you bought. They can get the items but without the personal details (including age, wealth, etc), they're not that useful.
    - libertyEQ 9y ago
      We had the ability to do this at the largest merchant acquirer 10 years ago as long as your bank signed up. Walmart was one of the first customers and would stream SKU-level data straight to our servers from the POS terminal.
IshKebab 9y ago
I always thought they were up front about that being true. At least for the 1% off cards that supermarkets offer.
mathw 9y ago
If you look at the history of the Tesco Clubcard (one of the early ones to appear in the UK), the data they mined from their new ability to tie purchasing trends to customers more than made up for the cost of the rewards being offered to get people to use it. There's a reason they got so dominant over here - they were simply way ahead of the game on offering what their customers actually wanted, because they were the only people who actually had a clue. That has of course changed now.

underwater 9y ago

I'm sure Facebook would like to do what you're saying, but I think that they're a long way from having those capabilities. They have billions of users, billions of ads, and trillions of pieces of metadata. Sifting through that to produce a guess like "User 1234 burned themselves and would be interested in product 5678" would be an amazing and scary piece of AI. Not to mention that Facebook are limited by the ads they can sell. The manufacturer of the burn cream doesn't give Facebook a bucket of money and free reign. They choose how and where the ads are shown. There is currently no option for "Users who recently burned themselves".

halflings 9y ago
Patterns like these can definitely be inferred by machine learning, with well principled models. P(product_class=bandage | job=factory_worker, pharmacy_visit_last_month=1) >> P(product_class=bandage)
tfinniga 9y ago
Last year there were 29,000 categories that could be targeted. If an ad sales rep wanted to close a deal, how difficult would it be to add one more for recent burn victims, or people who recently bought a specific product? From the links that m_ke posted, facebook already has ties to loyalty card information, so it's very possible that they didn't need to do any inference, they just had the data directly. In any case, the main point is that facebook doesn't need to listen to what people are saying, it has a ton of other data streams that could explain the stories in the link.
- hellweaver666 9y ago
  What would the point be in advertising a burn cream to someone that just bought a burn cream? It's not like it's a common reoccurring purchase (like Toothpaste for example). Like the article says, it's probably just the Baader-Meinhof phenomenon* at work. It's like when you buy a new car - you suddenly start seeing that same model of car everywhere. * https://www.damninteresting.com/the-baader-meinhof-phenomenon/ https://www.damninteresting.com/the-baader-meinhof-phenomeno...

raspasov 9y ago

"It is possible that facebook has access to a stream of Target purchases" ... It's not possible, it's simply true. In fact, this feature of the facebook ad platform is available to any advertiser on Facebook/Instagram/etc, whether you have $100 to spend or $100M. You simply upload your customer's purchases to Facebook with data such as zip code, email, etc etc which Facebook then uses to optimize your advertising budget and find more customers similar to the ones you already have (the feature is called look-alike audiences).

nawtacawp 9y ago

"Google said that it captures around 70% of credit and debit card transactions in the US." source: http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-40027706 http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-40027706 If Google has access, I am sure Facebook does it.

underwoodley 9y ago

Also, Googling something on your phone is so common and easy nowadays that people just forget that they did it. It's literally become an integral part of the thinking process.