6 ms·

I think we will suffer from a bit of reverse survivor-ship bias here. Those who have gotten unhooked will not respond! We need some Sidartha who is willing to

by rljy 9y ago

I think we will suffer from a bit of reverse survivor-ship bias here. Those who have gotten unhooked will not respond! We need some Sidartha who is willing to give up nirvana to travel back to the internet and tell us all how to escape.

humanrebar 9y ago
I'm sure the "unhooked" will go on at length about it at cocktail parties, just like the hipsters who don't have TVs or gave up gluten.
- flotillo 9y ago
  There's not as much need for traditional TVs these days, given that you can watch almost anything via a computer and internet connection.
- odiroot 9y ago
  How is not having a TV a hipster thing?
  - jayroh 9y ago
    It's been a thing since about 2009 - https://www.theonion.com/area-man-constantly-mentioning-he-doesnt-own-a-televisi-1819565469 https://www.theonion.com/area-man-constantly-mentioning-he-d...
    - jasode 9y ago
      Fyi... that Onion article is actually 17+ years old, not 8 years old. The date is February 9, 2000.
      - Joeri 9y ago
        And yet it already references the simpsons.
        code_duck 9y ago
        The Simpsons were practically old by then.
        dredmorbius 9y ago
        Which dates from 1987 (as part of the Tracey Ullman Show), or 1989 (freestanding). The Onion are hardly being prescient. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Simpsons https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Simpsons
    - pault 9y ago
      "Kill your TV" was already on bumper stickers in the 1970s, so I don't think it's a new phenomenon.
      - philtar 9y ago
        And vinyl records have been around since the 19050s. Both are associated with hipsters. Doesn't need to be new to be associated with hipsters.
    - dredmorbius 9y ago
      Four Arguments for the Elimination of Television, by Jerry Mander (an ad executive, FYI), 1978. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Arguments_for_the_Elimination_of_Television https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Arguments_for_the_Elimi... Though you can find the first criticisms of TV culture and "the Great Wasteland" by 1961: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television_and_the_Public_Interest https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television_and_the_Public_In... Applications of Gresham's Law to television and media were fairly common in the 1950s: http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/618198?journalCode=lq http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/618198?jour... Or of "mass culture" (1953) http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/039219215300100301?journalCode=dioa http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0392192153001003...
  - jasode 9y ago
    It isn't the "not owning" a tv that's hipster. It's the _humblebragging_ about not watching TV. (Also known as "virtue signaling": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtue_signalling https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtue_signalling)
    - pault 9y ago
      It annoys me to no end when I ask someone if they've seen $tv_show and they respond "I don't watch TV." A simple "no" will suffice. It's extra annoying because I don't habitually watch TV either, but that doesn't mean I've never seen a TV show. The smug superiority is maddening.
      - kaybe 9y ago
        You might ask about $tv_show2 next, and then $tv_show3, which makes for boring conversation.
      - reitanqild 9y ago
        You try to start a conversation, they know they cannot participate but give you a hand by opening up and give you another interesting thing to discuss. And instead of asking why or what/if they miss something and having an interesting conversation you get annoyed? Have I understood you correctly?
    - bamboozled 9y ago
      It's healthy for people to discuss this and similar topics such as unplugging. People should be able to do so without fear of being ridiculed and accused of "Virtue Signalling. While going around accusing people who advertise a lack of Televesion ownership as virtue signalling I think you're missing other reasons they might be doing it, for example: - Openly seeking some validation from their peers about their lifestyle change - Find people who feel similar about owning a Television and share ideas. - Yeah, some people might brag, so what? Why be so quick to judge?
      - jasode 9y ago
        >It's healthy for people to discuss this and similar topics such as unplugging. I agree that people should discuss it as long as it's genuine conversation. The negatives of tv have been discussed for a long time. Neil Postman's 1985 "Amusing Ourselfs to Death" talks about unplugging from tv. The 1953 Ray Bradbury book "Fahrenheit 451" has been often analyzed for its themes of censorship and burning books but the author has stated the larger theme was television and its effect on dumbing down society. Yes, it's healthy to have an ongoing dialogue about this subject. >People should be able to do so without fear of being ridiculed and accused of "Virtue Signalling. The "Virtual Signaling" is a good label because it helps separate the meaningful from the superficial. Many people who don't watch tv (or have other strong beliefs such as "not eating meat", etc) lack self-awareness as to how it's perceived by others when it comes to advertising their positions. They think it enhances their appeal when in fact, the opposite happens: the people roll their eyes at the smugness. If "virtue signaling" as a meme helps people become more self-aware, that's a good thing. >Openly seeking some validation This is reasonable and possible, but in my observations, I've never seen it. >Why be so quick to judge? I'm not judging. I was clarifying to the poster (odiroot) that it's not about the "owning" -- it's the "signaling".
  - jasode 9y ago
    Truly confused here. Can downvoters[1] explain why clarifying odiroot's question about humanrebar's[2] sentence "will go on at length about it [...] who don't have TVs" is not helpful to the discussion? The "will go on at length about it" is about the _communication_, not the _non-ownership_ -- isn't that correct? Did I parse humanrebar incorrectly? [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15579134 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15579134 [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15578959 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15578959
- gm-conspiracy 9y ago
  I live in a somewhat rural area and attended a Halloween party in town last night. I had an interesting conversation with a few people that live in an area where no connectivity is available (land-line phone is only option). They use VHS tapes they buy at thrift stores in town (stuff Netflix cannot stream) for less than a dollar each, and LP records (a bit more trendy). Also, books. After staring at screens for over 10 hours a day, I do enjoy reading printed material (books, newspaper, magazines, etc).
- gggdvnkhmbgjvbn 9y ago
  Hi, you're an asshole
krolley 9y ago
The part about scrolling through your feed for 30 seconds, realising it's all crap and exiting is true. I unhooked simply because the content isn't interesting.
- maroonblazer 9y ago
  Really? My problem is that most of it is uninteresting, but there's just barely enough that is interesting that it keeps me from shutting it all off.
  - dredmorbius 9y ago
    Suggestion: start very consciously removing the least-interesting / least-productive feeds, and seeking out higher-quality ones. Also contrast with searches for articles / books (there area a great many of these online, if not always legally: The Internet Archive, Sci-Hub, Google Scholar, Google Books, and more). Wikipedia is often a good _start_ for exploration -- head to the references and start going through those. I've found that online commentary is often quite thin on substance, even at better sites (e.g., HN and this thread). There are exceptions, but you've got to aggressively filter for it.
  - tertius 9y ago
    News feed eradicator for FB.
pattisapu 9y ago
Interesting article from a Buddhist on why he does not have a cell phone: http://www.ctheory.net/articles.aspx?id=620 http://www.ctheory.net/articles.aspx?id=620

by rljy 9y ago

humanrebar 9y ago

I'm sure the "unhooked" will go on at length about it at cocktail parties, just like the hipsters who don't have TVs or gave up gluten.

flotillo 9y ago
There's not as much need for traditional TVs these days, given that you can watch almost anything via a computer and internet connection.
odiroot 9y ago
How is not having a TV a hipster thing?
- jayroh 9y ago
  It's been a thing since about 2009 - https://www.theonion.com/area-man-constantly-mentioning-he-doesnt-own-a-televisi-1819565469 https://www.theonion.com/area-man-constantly-mentioning-he-d...
  - jasode 9y ago
    Fyi... that Onion article is actually 17+ years old, not 8 years old. The date is February 9, 2000.
    - Joeri 9y ago
      And yet it already references the simpsons.
      - code_duck 9y ago
        The Simpsons were practically old by then.
      - dredmorbius 9y ago
        Which dates from 1987 (as part of the Tracey Ullman Show), or 1989 (freestanding). The Onion are hardly being prescient. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Simpsons https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Simpsons
  - pault 9y ago
    "Kill your TV" was already on bumper stickers in the 1970s, so I don't think it's a new phenomenon.
    - philtar 9y ago
      And vinyl records have been around since the 19050s. Both are associated with hipsters. Doesn't need to be new to be associated with hipsters.
  - dredmorbius 9y ago
    Four Arguments for the Elimination of Television, by Jerry Mander (an ad executive, FYI), 1978. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Arguments_for_the_Elimination_of_Television https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Arguments_for_the_Elimi... Though you can find the first criticisms of TV culture and "the Great Wasteland" by 1961: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television_and_the_Public_Interest https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television_and_the_Public_In... Applications of Gresham's Law to television and media were fairly common in the 1950s: http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/618198?journalCode=lq http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/618198?jour... Or of "mass culture" (1953) http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/039219215300100301?journalCode=dioa http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0392192153001003...
- jasode 9y ago
  It isn't the "not owning" a tv that's hipster. It's the _humblebragging_ about not watching TV. (Also known as "virtue signaling": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtue_signalling https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtue_signalling)
  - pault 9y ago
    It annoys me to no end when I ask someone if they've seen $tv_show and they respond "I don't watch TV." A simple "no" will suffice. It's extra annoying because I don't habitually watch TV either, but that doesn't mean I've never seen a TV show. The smug superiority is maddening.
    - kaybe 9y ago
      You might ask about $tv_show2 next, and then $tv_show3, which makes for boring conversation.
    - reitanqild 9y ago
      You try to start a conversation, they know they cannot participate but give you a hand by opening up and give you another interesting thing to discuss. And instead of asking why or what/if they miss something and having an interesting conversation you get annoyed? Have I understood you correctly?
  - bamboozled 9y ago
    It's healthy for people to discuss this and similar topics such as unplugging. People should be able to do so without fear of being ridiculed and accused of "Virtue Signalling. While going around accusing people who advertise a lack of Televesion ownership as virtue signalling I think you're missing other reasons they might be doing it, for example: - Openly seeking some validation from their peers about their lifestyle change - Find people who feel similar about owning a Television and share ideas. - Yeah, some people might brag, so what? Why be so quick to judge?
    - jasode 9y ago
      >It's healthy for people to discuss this and similar topics such as unplugging. I agree that people should discuss it as long as it's genuine conversation. The negatives of tv have been discussed for a long time. Neil Postman's 1985 "Amusing Ourselfs to Death" talks about unplugging from tv. The 1953 Ray Bradbury book "Fahrenheit 451" has been often analyzed for its themes of censorship and burning books but the author has stated the larger theme was television and its effect on dumbing down society. Yes, it's healthy to have an ongoing dialogue about this subject. >People should be able to do so without fear of being ridiculed and accused of "Virtue Signalling. The "Virtual Signaling" is a good label because it helps separate the meaningful from the superficial. Many people who don't watch tv (or have other strong beliefs such as "not eating meat", etc) lack self-awareness as to how it's perceived by others when it comes to advertising their positions. They think it enhances their appeal when in fact, the opposite happens: the people roll their eyes at the smugness. If "virtue signaling" as a meme helps people become more self-aware, that's a good thing. >Openly seeking some validation This is reasonable and possible, but in my observations, I've never seen it. >Why be so quick to judge? I'm not judging. I was clarifying to the poster (odiroot) that it's not about the "owning" -- it's the "signaling".
- jasode 9y ago
  Truly confused here. Can downvoters[1] explain why clarifying odiroot's question about humanrebar's[2] sentence "will go on at length about it [...] who don't have TVs" is not helpful to the discussion? The "will go on at length about it" is about the _communication_, not the _non-ownership_ -- isn't that correct? Did I parse humanrebar incorrectly? [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15579134 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15579134 [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15578959 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15578959
gm-conspiracy 9y ago
I live in a somewhat rural area and attended a Halloween party in town last night. I had an interesting conversation with a few people that live in an area where no connectivity is available (land-line phone is only option). They use VHS tapes they buy at thrift stores in town (stuff Netflix cannot stream) for less than a dollar each, and LP records (a bit more trendy). Also, books. After staring at screens for over 10 hours a day, I do enjoy reading printed material (books, newspaper, magazines, etc).
gggdvnkhmbgjvbn 9y ago
Hi, you're an asshole

krolley 9y ago

The part about scrolling through your feed for 30 seconds, realising it's all crap and exiting is true. I unhooked simply because the content isn't interesting.

maroonblazer 9y ago
Really? My problem is that most of it is uninteresting, but there's just barely enough that is interesting that it keeps me from shutting it all off.
- dredmorbius 9y ago
  Suggestion: start very consciously removing the least-interesting / least-productive feeds, and seeking out higher-quality ones. Also contrast with searches for articles / books (there area a great many of these online, if not always legally: The Internet Archive, Sci-Hub, Google Scholar, Google Books, and more). Wikipedia is often a good _start_ for exploration -- head to the references and start going through those. I've found that online commentary is often quite thin on substance, even at better sites (e.g., HN and this thread). There are exceptions, but you've got to aggressively filter for it.
- tertius 9y ago
  News feed eradicator for FB.

pattisapu 9y ago

Interesting article from a Buddhist on why he does not have a cell phone: http://www.ctheory.net/articles.aspx?id=620 http://www.ctheory.net/articles.aspx?id=620