5 ms·

That all sounds so much better than a year or two ago. No, really! Granted, it's during the Party Congress, and not yet winter (when smog usually peaks)... but

by kurthr 9y ago

That all sounds so much better than a year or two ago. No, really! Granted, it's during the Party Congress, and not yet winter (when smog usually peaks)... but PM2.5 under 300 isn't that bad. Over 3-400 is notable (like it was during the Beijing Marathon in 2014). Breaking 999 is also amazing, but used to happen in Hebei regularly. Sadly, we'll have to wait a few months to see if it's actually better this year. https://qz.com/283665/beijing-broke-its-own-air-quality-rules-and-held-a-marathon-in-toxic-conditions/ https://qz.com/283665/beijing-broke-its-own-air-quality-rule... http://mashable.com/2016/12/20/china-air-pollution-red-alerts-2016/#Z_NgQH6ltOqs http://mashable.com/2016/12/20/china-air-pollution-red-alert...

QAPereo 9y ago
Are there any reliable estimates on mortality related to this pollution? It must be considerable.
literallycancer 9y ago
> but PM2.5 under 300 isn't that bad. That's 300μg/m3. A 5 μg/m3 increase in estimated annual mean PM2.5 was associated with a 13% increased risk of coronary events... http://www.bmj.com/content/348/bmj.f7412 http://www.bmj.com/content/348/bmj.f7412 The city where I live has PM10 over a 100 on bad days during the winter, and I try to avoid opening the windows if at all possible (I have an air filter, but it's annoyingly loud). Note that smaller particles are more dangerous - PM10 are relatively big. PM2.5 isn't even measured by most weather stations here. You can easily smell PM10 concentrations over 60 or so.
- dmoy 9y ago
  They mean bad relative to a normal day in Beijing, not in absolute terms.
  - kurthr 9y ago
    Yes, no one wants to live in smog... even 100 PM2.5 is bad. It's just normal in northern China, especially in the winter. Bay area air quality has been bad recently too, but complaining about it would show less empathy than our neighbors deserve.
    - seanmcdirmid 9y ago
      Different scales. When the Bay Area hits 100 PM2.5, that is considered really really bad, heck, just being above 30 is considered bad. 100 in Beijing during winter is a good day, you don't have to go outside with your mask on.
- mikeash 9y ago
  When you routinely see numbers in the 400s and sometimes over 500, a mere 300 is a welcome reprieve.
seanmcdirmid 9y ago
It’s hard to say if things are better yet. They did another crackdown on factories, but if history is a guide, it will just be symbolic and temporary. Living in Beijing from 2007-2016, there have been many instances where the government said it got better when it didn’t really, at least from my point of view.

by kurthr 9y ago

QAPereo 9y ago

Are there any reliable estimates on mortality related to this pollution? It must be considerable.

literallycancer 9y ago

> but PM2.5 under 300 isn't that bad. That's 300μg/m3. A 5 μg/m3 increase in estimated annual mean PM2.5 was associated with a 13% increased risk of coronary events... http://www.bmj.com/content/348/bmj.f7412 http://www.bmj.com/content/348/bmj.f7412 The city where I live has PM10 over a 100 on bad days during the winter, and I try to avoid opening the windows if at all possible (I have an air filter, but it's annoyingly loud). Note that smaller particles are more dangerous - PM10 are relatively big. PM2.5 isn't even measured by most weather stations here. You can easily smell PM10 concentrations over 60 or so.

dmoy 9y ago
They mean bad relative to a normal day in Beijing, not in absolute terms.
- kurthr 9y ago
  Yes, no one wants to live in smog... even 100 PM2.5 is bad. It's just normal in northern China, especially in the winter. Bay area air quality has been bad recently too, but complaining about it would show less empathy than our neighbors deserve.
  - seanmcdirmid 9y ago
    Different scales. When the Bay Area hits 100 PM2.5, that is considered really really bad, heck, just being above 30 is considered bad. 100 in Beijing during winter is a good day, you don't have to go outside with your mask on.
mikeash 9y ago
When you routinely see numbers in the 400s and sometimes over 500, a mere 300 is a welcome reprieve.

seanmcdirmid 9y ago

It’s hard to say if things are better yet. They did another crackdown on factories, but if history is a guide, it will just be symbolic and temporary. Living in Beijing from 2007-2016, there have been many instances where the government said it got better when it didn’t really, at least from my point of view.