5 ms·

Google, Amazon (for example), are building large work centers in desirable places to work, which are raising the cost of living of everyone else in the town tha

Google, Amazon (for example), are building large work centers in desirable places to work, which are raising the cost of living of everyone else in the town that may not have a six figure income. Google is moving to Boulder, CO as we speak; Denver was on the shortlist for Amazon. It's the same problem with kicking out artists in a dilapidated warehouse area, and moving in boring professionals to live in lofts built on the same foundations: your renewed neighborhood loses all the reasons it was appealing. In Boulder already you cannot really afford living in town with a service industry job, but people who want to work in Google also want to go out and have a beer after work. Those service industry workers need to commute into town, which is time-consuming, adds expense, worsens traffic, and lowers their quality of life.

WalterBright 9y ago
> kicking out artists in a dilapidated warehouse area, and moving in boring professionals So artists are wonderful, interesting people, and professionals are boring and unappealing? Wow.
- asdffdsaaasdf 9y ago
  Generally speaking yes, I think artists add an element of interest and entropy in an area compared to professionals in white collar positions. Wouldn't agree on the 'wonderful' or 'unappealing' value judgments though; I think you added them for rhetorical emphasis.
  - WalterBright 9y ago
    I did add "wonderful" for rhetorical emphasis, but "unappealing" came from the parent.
- michaelchisari 9y ago
  Speaking as a boring professional, yes, artists may be insufferable in plenty of ways, but boring they are not and their presence is important for establishing and growing a local culture, whereas professionals are good for growing an economy and both are needed for a healthy, vibrant city.
  - WalterBright 9y ago
    I know some artists, and many of them are definitely boring :-) Just because someone decides to be an artist and sticks seashells on a model house doesn't make them interesting. And why would, for example, playing a trumpet well make you intrinsically more interesting than mastering complex mathematics? I'd rather have lunch with the mathematician. In fact, Feynman is at the top of the list of people I'd like to have lunch with, and it's not about his bongo drum playing. (P.S. I learned to play the trumpet in my youth.)
    - michaelchisari 9y ago
      Because most people can relate to music on an emotional level better than they can relate to complex mathematics. It sounds like you know some pretty terrible artists, though. I mean, seashells on a model house? PS. Feynman is Feynman for a reason.
      - torstenvl 9y ago
        People who only relate on an emotional level and don't appreciate intellectual complexity are - wait for it - boring.
        michaelchisari 9y ago
        You said only, not me. Great art is heavy on intellectual complexity.
        WalterBright 9y ago
        The Beatles made some of the greatest music in history, but "she loves you yeah yeah yeah" is a mite lacking in intellectual complexity.
        goldfeld 9y ago
        Far from making greatest works even in modern music, but they made greatness accessible.
- Daishiman 9y ago
  Hmm, yes? There's only so much after-work talk I can tolerate about app servers. I want to go to the theater, watch plays, and see bands. The people who have those interests are not particularly enchanted by traditional professional careers.
  - WalterBright 9y ago
    I bet you'd get bored at watching plays 40 hrs a week, too.
- justinator 9y ago
  > So artists are wonderful, interesting people, and professionals are boring and unappealing? Wow. Well, this fine article is partly about Richard Florida, and that's basically what he's saying: keep the creative class around, because they are the ones that add value to a city. Boring professionals flock to neighborhoods put on the map because creative people making them destinations. In Denver, see the River North neighborhood. What once was a very vibrant place to see DIY shows, gallerys, etc, is now just a brewery neighborhood. Some underground venues were closed by the city and the one-year anniversary of this is coming up. The city shows no interest in providing an alternative. I guess this isn't very important to most, but these spaces were a safe place for many people to go: homeless teenagers, trans-folk, etc. http://www.westword.com/music/rhinoceropolis-diy-venue-shut-down-by-denver-fire-department-for-code-violations-8580550 http://www.westword.com/music/rhinoceropolis-diy-venue-shut-...
jsky_goog 9y ago
I always get slightly sad when I hear the complaints against Google in Boulder as I honestly believe the effect it has had on housing prices has been overstated. For some context, I'm a Boulder native, I grew up here, went to preschool through college here, and am fortunate enough to get a job that pays me enough to stay here. And for what it's worth Google has had an office in Boulder for about 10 or 11 years now. I'm more than happy to discuss this more thoroughly here, through pms, or over coffee :) Disclaimer: I work at Google, in Boulder.
- justinator 9y ago
  I really think it's too early to tell, but people who don't work at Google - like me, are worried. In the last two years, the number of people working Google has doubled to 650; the new campus will hold 1500 workers. That's well over 1% of the total population of Boulder, working at Google - and you must agree that this will be a new phenomenon for Boulder's housing market. For a city that's not so into building new housing, and most especially affordable housing, the writing is on the wall about what's going to happen to current housing prices, not to mention the general cost of living, in Boulder. The elephant in the room when it comes to any housing boom (like in Denver) in the west is water: the current supply is already strained. Do remember we pump water through massive tunnels under mountains from the western slope to feed the current demand. We need more people on the front range? I dunno.
- justinator 9y ago
  Also I think it's safe to think that the Silicon Valley region is a pretty unlivable/undesirable place to be, and what's happened to S.F isn't something any city really wants, unless you are filthy rich. "Google Effect" and all...
xapata 9y ago
Or we could just pay service-workers more. If you'd like to have a cool bar where the employees can afford to live in the neighborhood, then create one. Charge enough per drink to pay the rent and advertise why. I'm curious if it'd succeed.
- justinator 9y ago
  I don't know if working as a bartender to owning a bar is that easy of a process. In Boulder at least, I'm not there to drink at a cool bar, work at a cool bar, or own a cool bar. I'm there because it's a livable city. Or was a livable city.
  - xapata 9y ago
    Then it sounds like you don't care if the bartenders move elsewhere. Which is reasonable.
DrScump 9y ago
kicking out artists in a dilapidated warehouse area, and moving in boring professionals I think "boring professionals" would, at least, make such spaces safe to live in.[0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Oakland_warehouse_fire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Oakland_warehouse_fire

WalterBright 9y ago

> kicking out artists in a dilapidated warehouse area, and moving in boring professionals So artists are wonderful, interesting people, and professionals are boring and unappealing? Wow.

asdffdsaaasdf 9y ago
Generally speaking yes, I think artists add an element of interest and entropy in an area compared to professionals in white collar positions. Wouldn't agree on the 'wonderful' or 'unappealing' value judgments though; I think you added them for rhetorical emphasis.
- WalterBright 9y ago
  I did add "wonderful" for rhetorical emphasis, but "unappealing" came from the parent.
michaelchisari 9y ago
Speaking as a boring professional, yes, artists may be insufferable in plenty of ways, but boring they are not and their presence is important for establishing and growing a local culture, whereas professionals are good for growing an economy and both are needed for a healthy, vibrant city.
- WalterBright 9y ago
  I know some artists, and many of them are definitely boring :-) Just because someone decides to be an artist and sticks seashells on a model house doesn't make them interesting. And why would, for example, playing a trumpet well make you intrinsically more interesting than mastering complex mathematics? I'd rather have lunch with the mathematician. In fact, Feynman is at the top of the list of people I'd like to have lunch with, and it's not about his bongo drum playing. (P.S. I learned to play the trumpet in my youth.)
  - michaelchisari 9y ago
    Because most people can relate to music on an emotional level better than they can relate to complex mathematics. It sounds like you know some pretty terrible artists, though. I mean, seashells on a model house? PS. Feynman is Feynman for a reason.
    - torstenvl 9y ago
      People who only relate on an emotional level and don't appreciate intellectual complexity are - wait for it - boring.
      - michaelchisari 9y ago
        You said only, not me. Great art is heavy on intellectual complexity.
        WalterBright 9y ago
        The Beatles made some of the greatest music in history, but "she loves you yeah yeah yeah" is a mite lacking in intellectual complexity.
        goldfeld 9y ago
        Far from making greatest works even in modern music, but they made greatness accessible.
Daishiman 9y ago
Hmm, yes? There's only so much after-work talk I can tolerate about app servers. I want to go to the theater, watch plays, and see bands. The people who have those interests are not particularly enchanted by traditional professional careers.
- WalterBright 9y ago
  I bet you'd get bored at watching plays 40 hrs a week, too.
justinator 9y ago
> So artists are wonderful, interesting people, and professionals are boring and unappealing? Wow. Well, this fine article is partly about Richard Florida, and that's basically what he's saying: keep the creative class around, because they are the ones that add value to a city. Boring professionals flock to neighborhoods put on the map because creative people making them destinations. In Denver, see the River North neighborhood. What once was a very vibrant place to see DIY shows, gallerys, etc, is now just a brewery neighborhood. Some underground venues were closed by the city and the one-year anniversary of this is coming up. The city shows no interest in providing an alternative. I guess this isn't very important to most, but these spaces were a safe place for many people to go: homeless teenagers, trans-folk, etc. http://www.westword.com/music/rhinoceropolis-diy-venue-shut-down-by-denver-fire-department-for-code-violations-8580550 http://www.westword.com/music/rhinoceropolis-diy-venue-shut-...

jsky_goog 9y ago

I always get slightly sad when I hear the complaints against Google in Boulder as I honestly believe the effect it has had on housing prices has been overstated. For some context, I'm a Boulder native, I grew up here, went to preschool through college here, and am fortunate enough to get a job that pays me enough to stay here. And for what it's worth Google has had an office in Boulder for about 10 or 11 years now. I'm more than happy to discuss this more thoroughly here, through pms, or over coffee :) Disclaimer: I work at Google, in Boulder.

justinator 9y ago
I really think it's too early to tell, but people who don't work at Google - like me, are worried. In the last two years, the number of people working Google has doubled to 650; the new campus will hold 1500 workers. That's well over 1% of the total population of Boulder, working at Google - and you must agree that this will be a new phenomenon for Boulder's housing market. For a city that's not so into building new housing, and most especially affordable housing, the writing is on the wall about what's going to happen to current housing prices, not to mention the general cost of living, in Boulder. The elephant in the room when it comes to any housing boom (like in Denver) in the west is water: the current supply is already strained. Do remember we pump water through massive tunnels under mountains from the western slope to feed the current demand. We need more people on the front range? I dunno.
justinator 9y ago
Also I think it's safe to think that the Silicon Valley region is a pretty unlivable/undesirable place to be, and what's happened to S.F isn't something any city really wants, unless you are filthy rich. "Google Effect" and all...

xapata 9y ago

Or we could just pay service-workers more. If you'd like to have a cool bar where the employees can afford to live in the neighborhood, then create one. Charge enough per drink to pay the rent and advertise why. I'm curious if it'd succeed.

justinator 9y ago
I don't know if working as a bartender to owning a bar is that easy of a process. In Boulder at least, I'm not there to drink at a cool bar, work at a cool bar, or own a cool bar. I'm there because it's a livable city. Or was a livable city.
- xapata 9y ago
  Then it sounds like you don't care if the bartenders move elsewhere. Which is reasonable.

DrScump 9y ago

kicking out artists in a dilapidated warehouse area, and moving in boring professionals I think "boring professionals" would, at least, make such spaces safe to live in.[0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Oakland_warehouse_fire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Oakland_warehouse_fire