3 ms·

What I do not understand is how the EU can stand by and watch as one of its member countries limits citizen freedom? Anybody should be able to hold a vote on an

by jwr 9y ago

What I do not understand is how the EU can stand by and watch as one of its member countries limits citizen freedom? Anybody should be able to hold a vote on anything they like. You should not be able to declare a referendum "illegal" (it might turn out that the results have no legal standing, but that doesn't make the vote or the voting itself "illegal"). I am worried that the EU doesn't hold true to its core values.

jacquesm 9y ago
Inaction has always been the EU's prefered MO. Only when the shit really hits the fan will they act.
djsumdog 9y ago
This gets into a deeper philosophical conversation of what is _legal_. Legality is a social construct. After the America civil war, the the succession of the South was declared illegal. http://khanism.org/security/legality/ http://khanism.org/security/legality/ It was also once legal to own slaves and legal for merchants to deny sales and service to blacks. Homosexuality was once illegal. If there is enough moral outrage and enough of the population backing a movement, the legality can change since it is a pure social construct based the belief of the people. For example, people in Texas who want a succession movement. It will never happen because although there are some very loud people for it, less than 2% of the entire population actually supports such an idea. If it one day changes to 60% ~ 70% .. or even up to 80%, what's legal at the Federal level simply won't matter. At that point we'll see the David Graeber argument play out; namely that States work because of their monopoly on violence. We see this today when it comes to American states with recreational cannibals, illegal at the Federal level, yet socially and morally accepted within the states that have legalized it (Washington, Oregon, California, Nevada, Colorado, etc.) Personally, I hope I see Cascadia succeeded in my lifetime. I think that would be awesome.
- pvaldes 9y ago
  > American states with recreational cannibals, illegal at the Federal level, yet socially and morally accepted in Washington, Oregon, California... Wow. You guys are very strange sometimes... XDDD ;) (Halloween is coming. Yup. Definitely. I can feel it in the air).
SaltySolomon 9y ago
Because one of the core tenants of the EU is rule of law. And secession is illegal .
- detaro 9y ago
  This comment does not address the question the parent post asked, which explicitly was about "voting", not "secessing".
tim333 9y ago
Contrary to what some Brexiter's make out, the EU really has quite limited powers over member countries. There's not much it can do in these kind of disputes.

by jwr 9y ago

jacquesm 9y ago

Inaction has always been the EU's prefered MO. Only when the shit really hits the fan will they act.

djsumdog 9y ago

This gets into a deeper philosophical conversation of what is _legal_. Legality is a social construct. After the America civil war, the the succession of the South was declared illegal. http://khanism.org/security/legality/ http://khanism.org/security/legality/ It was also once legal to own slaves and legal for merchants to deny sales and service to blacks. Homosexuality was once illegal. If there is enough moral outrage and enough of the population backing a movement, the legality can change since it is a pure social construct based the belief of the people. For example, people in Texas who want a succession movement. It will never happen because although there are some very loud people for it, less than 2% of the entire population actually supports such an idea. If it one day changes to 60% ~ 70% .. or even up to 80%, what's legal at the Federal level simply won't matter. At that point we'll see the David Graeber argument play out; namely that States work because of their monopoly on violence. We see this today when it comes to American states with recreational cannibals, illegal at the Federal level, yet socially and morally accepted within the states that have legalized it (Washington, Oregon, California, Nevada, Colorado, etc.) Personally, I hope I see Cascadia succeeded in my lifetime. I think that would be awesome.

pvaldes 9y ago
> American states with recreational cannibals, illegal at the Federal level, yet socially and morally accepted in Washington, Oregon, California... Wow. You guys are very strange sometimes... XDDD ;) (Halloween is coming. Yup. Definitely. I can feel it in the air).

SaltySolomon 9y ago

Because one of the core tenants of the EU is rule of law. And secession is illegal .

detaro 9y ago
This comment does not address the question the parent post asked, which explicitly was about "voting", not "secessing".

tim333 9y ago

Contrary to what some Brexiter's make out, the EU really has quite limited powers over member countries. There's not much it can do in these kind of disputes.