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China is a funny one. For sure there is 'hustle'... I was scammed many a time in Beijing... But there is this really important cultral dimension in China calle

by icu 9y ago

China is a funny one. For sure there is 'hustle'... I was scammed many a time in Beijing... But there is this really important cultral dimension in China called "guanxi". It's not easy to summarise the importance and pervasiveness of guanxi... from a Western perspective it could be described as corruption but it's more like a social currency that is involved in any important transaction.

oh-kumudo 9y ago
Ahah, the old eastern asian vague social structure narrative. You'd be surprised how closely knitted Chinese companies are with SV, and how they replicated the SV in every possible way, even the interview process. So I will say guanxi is not an noticeable factor here. If you look back, how many SV startups are funded by people with a lot of resources, under the name of, networking? Does that count as your definition of social currency? In fact, guanxi, or 关系, in Chinese means connections. Sounds familiar, isn't it? The reason China has a huge startup scene is not that hard to understand if you are willing to come out of your idealogical/cultural bubble: 1. Presence of GFW. It bars the competition from outside of China. 2. Cheap local talents. They work twice the hours, but possible rewarded with 1/2 or 1/3 of what their SV counterparts are earning. The Chinese system allows such exploitation, while not anywhere else in the world. 3. Vast market. There are 1B cellphone users in China, that alone could sustain several 100B companies.
- icu 9y ago
  I'm happy to start a conversation as long as you don't resort to ad hominem which "if you are willing to come out of your idealogical(sic)/cultural bubble" certainly seems like. Exactly why do you think I'm in an ideological or cultural bubble? What personal experiences in China's new venture scene can you share with everyone on HN that does not involve guanxi at all? Lastly I disagree with your assertion that guanxi is simply "connections" or "networks". Granted I am a westerner but I dealt with Chinese manufacturers and business partners for several years and my personal experience is that guanxi is much more than what you are implying.
  - Apocryphon 9y ago
    So guanxi is the local equivalent to networking and reciprocity, the same sort of communal relationships which exist in any society. China, being a developing former communist state, has a highly corrupt environment which effects how guanxi is practiced. There, an explanation of a universal phenomenon in a localized setting, without Orientalism.
yorison 9y ago
To put things in a Western perspective, - "guanxi" = old boy's club - "face" = Italian mobster respect

by icu 9y ago

oh-kumudo 9y ago

Ahah, the old eastern asian vague social structure narrative. You'd be surprised how closely knitted Chinese companies are with SV, and how they replicated the SV in every possible way, even the interview process. So I will say guanxi is not an noticeable factor here. If you look back, how many SV startups are funded by people with a lot of resources, under the name of, networking? Does that count as your definition of social currency? In fact, guanxi, or 关系, in Chinese means connections. Sounds familiar, isn't it? The reason China has a huge startup scene is not that hard to understand if you are willing to come out of your idealogical/cultural bubble: 1. Presence of GFW. It bars the competition from outside of China. 2. Cheap local talents. They work twice the hours, but possible rewarded with 1/2 or 1/3 of what their SV counterparts are earning. The Chinese system allows such exploitation, while not anywhere else in the world. 3. Vast market. There are 1B cellphone users in China, that alone could sustain several 100B companies.

icu 9y ago
I'm happy to start a conversation as long as you don't resort to ad hominem which "if you are willing to come out of your idealogical(sic)/cultural bubble" certainly seems like. Exactly why do you think I'm in an ideological or cultural bubble? What personal experiences in China's new venture scene can you share with everyone on HN that does not involve guanxi at all? Lastly I disagree with your assertion that guanxi is simply "connections" or "networks". Granted I am a westerner but I dealt with Chinese manufacturers and business partners for several years and my personal experience is that guanxi is much more than what you are implying.
- Apocryphon 9y ago
  So guanxi is the local equivalent to networking and reciprocity, the same sort of communal relationships which exist in any society. China, being a developing former communist state, has a highly corrupt environment which effects how guanxi is practiced. There, an explanation of a universal phenomenon in a localized setting, without Orientalism.

yorison 9y ago

To put things in a Western perspective, - "guanxi" = old boy's club - "face" = Italian mobster respect