5 ms·

I think it's the kind of respect an anthropologist or similar should show when studying a community or a culture, not just ones that were almost completely wipe

I think it's the kind of respect an anthropologist or similar should show when studying a community or a culture, not just ones that were almost completely wiped out (but especially then, as is the case here). To be clear, I would hope the descendants will share these things with the world, and I expect they will. Many tribes have been working on language preservation and recovery of old traditions and oral histories and such for the past few decades. This obviously enables that effort. But, I don't think tribes should be obligated to do so, nor do I think it'd be ethical to give away these recordings without some input from the tribes. They would have more than mere memories of their language and culture today were it not for an attempted and nearly successful genocide by European settlers, and many feel (rightly, IMHO) as though their communities have had nearly everything stolen from them. It's not an old scar for many; it is a fresh wound.

pbhjpbhj 9y ago
At what point do you say "no one alive had anything to do with this, address things you can change"? Racism won't ever cease to be a problem if we continue to say "your ancestors did this, so you can't do that" rather than just treating people as people.
- eesmith 9y ago
  If only we had a profession which studied different cultures so we could get some idea of what it means to "treat people as people", instead of treating others as reflection of one's own culture. Perhaps we could call it "anthropology", from "anthropo-" for "man, people, humanity" and "-logy" for "the study of". Then we could let anthropology researchers figure out the best way to handle these sorts of issues.
  - microcolonel 9y ago
    > Perhaps we could call it "anthropology", from "anthropo-" for "man, people, humanity" and "-logy" for "the study of". They might get a bit smug if we teach them a couple of Greek words. They might start to think that their faeces are aosmic (ά- without, -οσμο odor).
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
  - pbhjpbhj 9y ago
    Sorry my culture is that those, outside my culture, with smug arguments aren't allowed to respond negatively. Retract your comment or prove you're wrong by maintaining it. --- Also, are you saying anthropologists would never intefere or contradict a distinct cultures wishes? I know that's not true. We should let the rich decide who pays taxes too, as they have most experience of it, no.
    - eesmith 9y ago
      Since it wasn't clear, my comment was to point out that anthropologists are likely to have a better idea of what it means to "treat people as people" than you do.
- alphonsegaston 9y ago
  When society reflects that kind of “people as people” equanimity you cite. This is certainly not the case for indigenous people today.
  - pbhjpbhj 9y ago
    We'll never get there by saying "we're not there yet, so it's fine to discriminate on race/culture/nationality under _our_ terms, because we're doing it for the right reasons". The whole concept of calling people wrong for cultural appropriation, for example, it's just racism. If you want to keep racism, then keep doing that. Same here: "you don't have the right ancestry so you can't do this". It's racism. We can keep it; I'd rather not.
- SwellJoe 9y ago
  "At what point do you say "no one alive had anything to do with this, address things you can change"?" Well, we could maybe start thinking that way if it were true. The US government is still actively in violation of treaties, stealing land and resources on behalf of oil companies and other business interests. Indigenous people in the US face more discrimination, both systemic and cultural, than nearly anyone. The notion that settler mistreatment of indigenous peoples is a distant memory, hundreds of years in the past, is just plain wrong. Racism won't ever cease to be a problem if we continue to say "your ancestors did this, so you can't do that" rather than just treating people as people. Stolen artifacts are sometimes returned to their country of origin. Is that wrong, just because a theft happened a long time ago? Archaeologists and anthropologists today will work with the governments and communities their work is about to ensure it is a respectful dialog rather than a theft of cultural resources. Are you saying that's not a good thing? It is an incredible feat of mental acrobatics to call it "racism" to extend the same courtesy to indigenous peoples that is extended by anthropologists and archaeologists working anywhere else in the world to the peoples they study.

pbhjpbhj 9y ago

At what point do you say "no one alive had anything to do with this, address things you can change"? Racism won't ever cease to be a problem if we continue to say "your ancestors did this, so you can't do that" rather than just treating people as people.

eesmith 9y ago
If only we had a profession which studied different cultures so we could get some idea of what it means to "treat people as people", instead of treating others as reflection of one's own culture. Perhaps we could call it "anthropology", from "anthropo-" for "man, people, humanity" and "-logy" for "the study of". Then we could let anthropology researchers figure out the best way to handle these sorts of issues.
- microcolonel 9y ago
  > Perhaps we could call it "anthropology", from "anthropo-" for "man, people, humanity" and "-logy" for "the study of". They might get a bit smug if we teach them a couple of Greek words. They might start to think that their faeces are aosmic (ά- without, -οσμο odor).
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
- pbhjpbhj 9y ago
  Sorry my culture is that those, outside my culture, with smug arguments aren't allowed to respond negatively. Retract your comment or prove you're wrong by maintaining it. --- Also, are you saying anthropologists would never intefere or contradict a distinct cultures wishes? I know that's not true. We should let the rich decide who pays taxes too, as they have most experience of it, no.
  - eesmith 9y ago
    Since it wasn't clear, my comment was to point out that anthropologists are likely to have a better idea of what it means to "treat people as people" than you do.
alphonsegaston 9y ago
When society reflects that kind of “people as people” equanimity you cite. This is certainly not the case for indigenous people today.
- pbhjpbhj 9y ago
  We'll never get there by saying "we're not there yet, so it's fine to discriminate on race/culture/nationality under _our_ terms, because we're doing it for the right reasons". The whole concept of calling people wrong for cultural appropriation, for example, it's just racism. If you want to keep racism, then keep doing that. Same here: "you don't have the right ancestry so you can't do this". It's racism. We can keep it; I'd rather not.
SwellJoe 9y ago
"At what point do you say "no one alive had anything to do with this, address things you can change"?" Well, we could maybe start thinking that way if it were true. The US government is still actively in violation of treaties, stealing land and resources on behalf of oil companies and other business interests. Indigenous people in the US face more discrimination, both systemic and cultural, than nearly anyone. The notion that settler mistreatment of indigenous peoples is a distant memory, hundreds of years in the past, is just plain wrong. Racism won't ever cease to be a problem if we continue to say "your ancestors did this, so you can't do that" rather than just treating people as people. Stolen artifacts are sometimes returned to their country of origin. Is that wrong, just because a theft happened a long time ago? Archaeologists and anthropologists today will work with the governments and communities their work is about to ensure it is a respectful dialog rather than a theft of cultural resources. Are you saying that's not a good thing? It is an incredible feat of mental acrobatics to call it "racism" to extend the same courtesy to indigenous peoples that is extended by anthropologists and archaeologists working anywhere else in the world to the peoples they study.