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It seems like FaceID is an epic pain compared Touch. Most consumers do not care about the 1/50K vs 1/1000k stats. They care about having to put an internet squ

by hodder 9y ago

It seems like FaceID is an epic pain compared Touch. Most consumers do not care about the 1/50K vs 1/1000k stats. They care about having to put an internet square to their face for access. To me this seems like a huge mistake for Apple. Lack of a home button also seems like a mistake. Both will likely confuse and annoy long time customers and should've been solved with an ergonomic button on the back.

mandeepj 9y ago
> ergonomic button on the back. That touchid on back is a huge fail from UX perspective. Samsung did it only because they could not do it from front side
- dpark 9y ago
  Why is that design a failure? My index finger is generally very near the Apple logo on my phone when I’m using it. It would be entirely convenient if the TouchID were there. It would actually be more comfortable than the current location that requires an awkward grip and thumb reach.
  - Aaargh20318 9y ago
    I use my phone a lot when it’s lying on a desk, can’t unlock it when the fingerprint sensor is on the back. Besides, the convenience of TouchID is largely due to it being integrated in the home button, you’d lose that too.
    - bhauer 9y ago
      > I use my phone a lot when it’s lying on a desk, can’t unlock it when the fingerprint sensor is on the back. You can still unlock a phone via its PIN if you don't want to pick it up. (Edit: I have not owned an iPhone since the original. Does the iPhone not provide a PIN option when Touch ID is enabled?)
      - spost 9y ago
        It does, but if anything that argument is a point in favor of “fingerprint sensor on the back is poor UX”.
        Kurtz79 9y ago
        It depends, if you consider using the phone while laying flat on a desk as a normal or edge case. I'm not an UX designer, but I would optimize for the nominal case, rather than choosing a solution that is sub-optimal 90% of the time, but works better for the remaining 10%.
        Aaargh20318 9y ago
        > It depends, if you consider using the phone while laying flat on a desk as a normal or edge case. Seems like a perfectly normal use-case to me. I have it lying on my desk when I'm at work, which is 40 hours a week. I don't want to have to pick up my phone or enter a PIN every time I want to check an incoming iMessage, news alert, etc.
        mehrdada 9y ago
        As a long-time iPhone user who had been using Pixel more frequently recently, the unlock phone-on-your-desk use-case is hugely problematic when you have fingerprint on the back and it is a huge pain point. I have a long passphrase for security but even entering a PIN is so 2012. Fingerprint on the back is a major UX issue. I hope FaceID would work fine at an angle.
- tonfa 9y ago
  Out of curiosity, why do you think so? I've used fingerprint sensor from both front and back, and I find back more natural (my fingers usually rest on the back of the phone).
- bhauer 9y ago
  > That touchid on back is a huge fail from UX perspective. How so? My wife's phone has a fingerprint sensor on the back and it works great. My phone has a retina scanner on the front, and it works less well. Sure, we'll eventually see scanning through the display [1], but until that happens the fingerprint sensor on the back works really well for me. [1] http://www.freepatentsonline.com/y2017/0257534.html http://www.freepatentsonline.com/y2017/0257534.html
  - genzoman 9y ago
    I have a Nexus 5x and it has a fingerprint sensor on the back and can confirm, works great. Anything else for me is YAGNI
- somebehemoth 9y ago
  I have both an S7 Edge (fingerprint reader on home button) and I've had 2 Nexus devices (6P and Pixel) with reader on back. I find the fingerprint sensor on the back to be far more user friendly than the awkward thumb button option. As others have said it is a natural location for your finger when holding the phone. Your use case is valid (phone is on flat surface), but the vast majority of people hold their phones during use rather than lay on flat surface.* *citation needed, but I sincerely doubt this is hard to believe.
  - alistairSH 9y ago
    * it is a natural location for your finger when holding the phone* Really? When I'm holding my phone (right hand), my fingers wrap around the left edge and my thumb rests along the right edge. Moving my thumb to the TouchId is easy. Moving my index finder to the center of the back panel is awkward.
    - somebehemoth 9y ago
      > Really? For me, for 3 years, yes. For you, clearly the answer is no. Everyone is different and that is great. OP stated: > That touchid on back is a huge fail from UX perspective. This is a matter of opinion that was stated as fact. I've used both styles of phone (simultaneously) where the fingerprint sensor is on the thumb/home button v. on the back for a few years now. I prefer the sensor on the back. I am not alone in this opinion. Therefore, it is not a "huge UX fail". That is the point I was trying to make.
- xeromal 9y ago
  Give the Pixel 2's touch scanner a try. It's incredibly fast. I'm amazed every time I use it.
- sfifs 9y ago
  Not correct. Galaxy S7 has it in the front and it's a pain to use compared to Galaxy S8 which has the touch sensor much more ergonomically positioned at the back. Source: owned both phones.
huebnerob 9y ago
I don't see how Face ID is inherently an "epic pain" unless you're building in the assumption that it doesn't work well. If you instead assume that it works fairly well and your device is unlocked when you look at it, it seems that it could be much more convenient in many scenarios than Touch ID. Like when you're wearing gloves, when your finger might be dirty/wet, etc.. I've used Touch ID since inception, and I can honestly say that I'm excited to explore the different set of tradeoffs that Face ID will bring. What I will grant you is that we don't actually know how well it works yet, but we will soon.
- hungerstrike 9y ago
  > I don't see how Face ID is inherently an "epic pain" unless you're building in the assumption that it doesn't work well. My assumption is that it will always take longer than just using a button. If it doesn't take longer, then it will be unlocking at incorrect times. That's why I think it will be an epic failure.
  - toasterlovin 9y ago
    The degree of muddled thinking around Apple's competence never cease to amaze me. Do you really think that Apple went about trying to replace TouchID, a fundamental part of the experience of using their most important product, with FaceID and didn't consider time to unlock as one of the most important engineering considerations?
    - hungerstrike 9y ago
      Apple has made plenty of very questionable design decisions in the past. I fully expect to be proven correct when this POS is released.
- a012 9y ago
  My GF who usually use her phone as mirror won't buy iPhone X because it'll unlock automatically every time she holds it to check makeup.
shinratdr 9y ago
> Both will likely confuse and annoy long time customers and should've been solved with an ergonomic button on the back. One more reason why the iPhone X isn't "the iPhone" this year. Apple knows this, it's the most fundamental shift in how you use the device since the original iPhone. Those that feel confused and annoyed can always return the phone and buy the iPhone 8 for less money. Many already have opted to just buy the iPhone 8 rather than wait. I don't think it's a mistake at all, it's a carefully calculated move to ensure that the vast majority of their customer base isn't alienated by pricing this phone out of reach and making it very clear that this is a glimpse into the future of the iPhone, not the iPhone you know and love.
toasterlovin 9y ago
Just a friendly reminder that nobody outside of Apple has actually used FaceID. So maybe we should all shelve the hysterics over hypotheticals until we can base our opinions on actuals.
- MBCook 9y ago
  And given preorders are Friday morning the reviews should be out today or tomorrow. We don’t need to argue about this anymore we’re hours away from people with hands on experience telling us if it works.
tinus_hn 9y ago
Surely the iPhone X will be that magical Heisenphone that nobody wants to buy and Apple can’t manufacture enough of!
- Apocryphon 9y ago
  Well, it is considerably more expensive.
bluthru 9y ago
>It seems like FaceID is an epic pain compared Touch. It's a huge improvement if you're wearing gloves or have wet fingers. >an ergonomic button on the back This requires you to hold your phone a certain way (at least initially).
enra 9y ago
FaceID actually works well and the missing home button doesn't bother. Its actually easier to get to the home screen since you don't have to move your finger from screen to button and back.

by hodder 9y ago

mandeepj 9y ago

> ergonomic button on the back. That touchid on back is a huge fail from UX perspective. Samsung did it only because they could not do it from front side

dpark 9y ago
Why is that design a failure? My index finger is generally very near the Apple logo on my phone when I’m using it. It would be entirely convenient if the TouchID were there. It would actually be more comfortable than the current location that requires an awkward grip and thumb reach.
- Aaargh20318 9y ago
  I use my phone a lot when it’s lying on a desk, can’t unlock it when the fingerprint sensor is on the back. Besides, the convenience of TouchID is largely due to it being integrated in the home button, you’d lose that too.
  - bhauer 9y ago
    > I use my phone a lot when it’s lying on a desk, can’t unlock it when the fingerprint sensor is on the back. You can still unlock a phone via its PIN if you don't want to pick it up. (Edit: I have not owned an iPhone since the original. Does the iPhone not provide a PIN option when Touch ID is enabled?)
    - spost 9y ago
      It does, but if anything that argument is a point in favor of “fingerprint sensor on the back is poor UX”.
      - Kurtz79 9y ago
        It depends, if you consider using the phone while laying flat on a desk as a normal or edge case. I'm not an UX designer, but I would optimize for the nominal case, rather than choosing a solution that is sub-optimal 90% of the time, but works better for the remaining 10%.
        Aaargh20318 9y ago
        > It depends, if you consider using the phone while laying flat on a desk as a normal or edge case. Seems like a perfectly normal use-case to me. I have it lying on my desk when I'm at work, which is 40 hours a week. I don't want to have to pick up my phone or enter a PIN every time I want to check an incoming iMessage, news alert, etc.
        mehrdada 9y ago
        As a long-time iPhone user who had been using Pixel more frequently recently, the unlock phone-on-your-desk use-case is hugely problematic when you have fingerprint on the back and it is a huge pain point. I have a long passphrase for security but even entering a PIN is so 2012. Fingerprint on the back is a major UX issue. I hope FaceID would work fine at an angle.
tonfa 9y ago
Out of curiosity, why do you think so? I've used fingerprint sensor from both front and back, and I find back more natural (my fingers usually rest on the back of the phone).
bhauer 9y ago
> That touchid on back is a huge fail from UX perspective. How so? My wife's phone has a fingerprint sensor on the back and it works great. My phone has a retina scanner on the front, and it works less well. Sure, we'll eventually see scanning through the display [1], but until that happens the fingerprint sensor on the back works really well for me. [1] http://www.freepatentsonline.com/y2017/0257534.html http://www.freepatentsonline.com/y2017/0257534.html
- genzoman 9y ago
  I have a Nexus 5x and it has a fingerprint sensor on the back and can confirm, works great. Anything else for me is YAGNI
somebehemoth 9y ago
I have both an S7 Edge (fingerprint reader on home button) and I've had 2 Nexus devices (6P and Pixel) with reader on back. I find the fingerprint sensor on the back to be far more user friendly than the awkward thumb button option. As others have said it is a natural location for your finger when holding the phone. Your use case is valid (phone is on flat surface), but the vast majority of people hold their phones during use rather than lay on flat surface.* *citation needed, but I sincerely doubt this is hard to believe.
- alistairSH 9y ago
  * it is a natural location for your finger when holding the phone* Really? When I'm holding my phone (right hand), my fingers wrap around the left edge and my thumb rests along the right edge. Moving my thumb to the TouchId is easy. Moving my index finder to the center of the back panel is awkward.
  - somebehemoth 9y ago
    > Really? For me, for 3 years, yes. For you, clearly the answer is no. Everyone is different and that is great. OP stated: > That touchid on back is a huge fail from UX perspective. This is a matter of opinion that was stated as fact. I've used both styles of phone (simultaneously) where the fingerprint sensor is on the thumb/home button v. on the back for a few years now. I prefer the sensor on the back. I am not alone in this opinion. Therefore, it is not a "huge UX fail". That is the point I was trying to make.
xeromal 9y ago
Give the Pixel 2's touch scanner a try. It's incredibly fast. I'm amazed every time I use it.
sfifs 9y ago
Not correct. Galaxy S7 has it in the front and it's a pain to use compared to Galaxy S8 which has the touch sensor much more ergonomically positioned at the back. Source: owned both phones.

huebnerob 9y ago

I don't see how Face ID is inherently an "epic pain" unless you're building in the assumption that it doesn't work well. If you instead assume that it works fairly well and your device is unlocked when you look at it, it seems that it could be much more convenient in many scenarios than Touch ID. Like when you're wearing gloves, when your finger might be dirty/wet, etc.. I've used Touch ID since inception, and I can honestly say that I'm excited to explore the different set of tradeoffs that Face ID will bring. What I will grant you is that we don't actually know how well it works yet, but we will soon.

hungerstrike 9y ago
> I don't see how Face ID is inherently an "epic pain" unless you're building in the assumption that it doesn't work well. My assumption is that it will always take longer than just using a button. If it doesn't take longer, then it will be unlocking at incorrect times. That's why I think it will be an epic failure.
- toasterlovin 9y ago
  The degree of muddled thinking around Apple's competence never cease to amaze me. Do you really think that Apple went about trying to replace TouchID, a fundamental part of the experience of using their most important product, with FaceID and didn't consider time to unlock as one of the most important engineering considerations?
  - hungerstrike 9y ago
    Apple has made plenty of very questionable design decisions in the past. I fully expect to be proven correct when this POS is released.
a012 9y ago
My GF who usually use her phone as mirror won't buy iPhone X because it'll unlock automatically every time she holds it to check makeup.

shinratdr 9y ago

> Both will likely confuse and annoy long time customers and should've been solved with an ergonomic button on the back. One more reason why the iPhone X isn't "the iPhone" this year. Apple knows this, it's the most fundamental shift in how you use the device since the original iPhone. Those that feel confused and annoyed can always return the phone and buy the iPhone 8 for less money. Many already have opted to just buy the iPhone 8 rather than wait. I don't think it's a mistake at all, it's a carefully calculated move to ensure that the vast majority of their customer base isn't alienated by pricing this phone out of reach and making it very clear that this is a glimpse into the future of the iPhone, not the iPhone you know and love.

toasterlovin 9y ago

Just a friendly reminder that nobody outside of Apple has actually used FaceID. So maybe we should all shelve the hysterics over hypotheticals until we can base our opinions on actuals.

MBCook 9y ago
And given preorders are Friday morning the reviews should be out today or tomorrow. We don’t need to argue about this anymore we’re hours away from people with hands on experience telling us if it works.

tinus_hn 9y ago

Surely the iPhone X will be that magical Heisenphone that nobody wants to buy and Apple can’t manufacture enough of!

Apocryphon 9y ago
Well, it is considerably more expensive.

bluthru 9y ago

>It seems like FaceID is an epic pain compared Touch. It's a huge improvement if you're wearing gloves or have wet fingers. >an ergonomic button on the back This requires you to hold your phone a certain way (at least initially).

enra 9y ago

FaceID actually works well and the missing home button doesn't bother. Its actually easier to get to the home screen since you don't have to move your finger from screen to button and back.