5 ms·

A Windows 10 Home edition costs 145 euros, pro is 260 euros, it's not exactly impulse purchase territory for me. I never use Windows because I want to, I use i

by simias 9y ago

A Windows 10 Home edition costs 145 euros, pro is 260 euros, it's not exactly impulse purchase territory for me. I never use Windows because I want to, I use it because I have to. So paying hundreds of euros to have the privilege to use an OS I don't care for just because some developer decided not to make their application portable is very hard for me to swallow. Especially now with the built-in ads, telemetry, OneDrive and whatnot. You're not going to guilt me into purchasing a copy of that garbage fire of an OS just so that I can boot up the odd windows-only application every other month.

pjmlp 9y ago
The cheapest version of macOS for anyone that needs to use it, costs 570 € in Germany (Mac mini) for the very first version, excluding the free upgrades. Any other commercial OS at enterprise level is way beyond that in developer licenses.
- rbanffy 9y ago
  And it comes with a very elegant and compact computer totally for free.
  - jkoll 9y ago
    Still not worth it.
    - rbanffy 9y ago
      That's debatable. I kind of like mine. Not as fast as its big brother, but that was never the intention. And the OS is a beautiful successor for NeXTSTEP.
- simias 9y ago
  That's not a very fair comparison. And while I'm sure MacOS isn't exactly cheap I never encountered a situation where I had to use some piece of software that required me to run MacOS. For what it's worth I was mainly thinking of the Linux/BSDs that I actually want to use when given the choice It's free forever, easily customizable to fit my various needs, from embedded barebones application to media server to workstation. I actually own and control the OS (my debian doesn't upgrade to a new version behind my back) and I can even dig into the code if I want to. I'd sooner give 100 euros to the FreeBSD fountation than 10 euros to MS frankly. I gave them enough money indirectly already with all these prebuilt computers I've bought in the past decades which came with Windows preinstalled, only for me to immediately wipe them with something else.
  - moron4hire 9y ago
    That's just your particular case and not indicative of the situation as a whole. I regularly encounter software that requires me to run macOS. I build virtual and augmented reality software. macOS is garbage for VR, all the major VR systems work better on Windows. But, if you want to build AR apps for iPhones (or any sort of game app, doesn't have to be AR), you need Xcode, and Xcode only runs on macOS.
- Gracana 9y ago
  Well you've convinced me, if I need to buy an OS to run Windows programs, it sure won't be MacOS.
- e12e 9y ago
  > Any other commercial OS at enterprise level is way beyond that in developer licenses. Huh? If you need one license, Windows pro is much cheaper? Along with visual studio community edition etc. It really annoys me that Apple refuses to license OS X for non-appearance hw though. Might even eventually have bought some Apple hw, if I could start developing for ios/OSX without having to start with buying a computer I don't need. (I might have bought an iphone, for example).
  - pjmlp 9y ago
    For other commercial OSes I mean commercial UNIX flavors, mainframes and support contracts for Linux variants.
- BlackLotus89 9y ago
  That's just wrong. You could (or still can?) buy mac os installation dvds in an apple shop for 30 bucks (iirc my sister bought one a few years ago) also the "upgrade" to sierra is free without any limitation on how many machines you can legally install it on so you can create an installation medium (you can install it in qemu or probably even use coreboot with a modified tianocore to actually install it). Oh and you can download the source for the kernel (I'm not sure which versiin this really mirrors and I'm not a mac guy so I don't care) here https://opensource.apple.com/ https://opensource.apple.com/ Just because you can't easily buy a copy of it at best buy and install it without some hacking on any random computer doesn't mean that you can take the price of the cheapest mac _hardware_ say that's the price of the os and call it a day. Also your comment did completly miss the point of the parent comment.
  - johncolanduoni 9y ago
    > also the "upgrade" to sierra is free without any limitation on how many machines you can legally install it so you can create an installation medium (you can install it in qemu or probably even use coreboot with a modified tianocore to actually install it) There may not be a limit to how many machines you can legally install it on (I'm actually not sure), but the license is very clear as to what machines you can install it on (i.e. only Apple hardware). Though in reality it's been quite some time since Apple tried to enforce that provision very hard, and never on individual users installing it themselves on usual PC hardware. > Oh and you can download the source for the kernel (I'm not sure which versiin this really mirrors and I'm not a mac guy so I don't care) here https://opensource.apple.com/ https://opensource.apple.com/ The kernels are usually pretty up to date, but the public code is an even smaller portion of the OS than the Linux kernel is (many key drivers are not open source, and forget anything approaching the level of the UI).
    - BlackLotus89 9y ago
      I just went into my study and got my original snow leopard dvd (the one my sister bought) and I can't find the part that states this. > but the license is very clear as to what machines you can install it on (i.e. only Apple hardware) Would be nice to get a reference on that. But ignoring this my point still stands that pjmlps comment was more a misplaced snarky remark against apple that missed the point. But hey I neither use Mac OS nor Windows (only in the circumstanced when I'm forced to offer support) so I don't really care :) But a PS: Most hardware you buy comes with a Windows license so people who don't want to buy Windows can probably still use this.
leonroy 9y ago
OEM variants without the media and box are £25 on Amazon. Worked fine for us. Came as a license key from a VAT registered reseller and activated just fine.
- gruez 9y ago
  be careful, those discounted keys are likely coming from bizspark/msdn accounts. they will work fine, but if you're a business and get audited you will fail the audit. in that sense you might as well use a KMS activator.
YouAreGreat 9y ago
Depending on jurisdiction you may be able to buy a "used" license. In that case, you're looking at maybe 20-30 Euros for Windows 7 Pro.
moron4hire 9y ago
The trial images are not for you to use other people's software, they are for you to test your own software, especially for testing website compatibility with Internet Explorer. If your job requires testing more often than the trial image makes convenient, you should make your client pay for the Windows license. And if you're just using the OS, I really think you have a responsibility to pay for it. And all that other stuff can be turned off.
alex_hitchins 9y ago
If you don't need the support and don't need a physical boxed product, you can likely bring this cost down to about £40. Look for OEM.

by simias 9y ago

pjmlp 9y ago

The cheapest version of macOS for anyone that needs to use it, costs 570 € in Germany (Mac mini) for the very first version, excluding the free upgrades. Any other commercial OS at enterprise level is way beyond that in developer licenses.

rbanffy 9y ago
And it comes with a very elegant and compact computer totally for free.
- jkoll 9y ago
  Still not worth it.
  - rbanffy 9y ago
    That's debatable. I kind of like mine. Not as fast as its big brother, but that was never the intention. And the OS is a beautiful successor for NeXTSTEP.
simias 9y ago
That's not a very fair comparison. And while I'm sure MacOS isn't exactly cheap I never encountered a situation where I had to use some piece of software that required me to run MacOS. For what it's worth I was mainly thinking of the Linux/BSDs that I actually want to use when given the choice It's free forever, easily customizable to fit my various needs, from embedded barebones application to media server to workstation. I actually own and control the OS (my debian doesn't upgrade to a new version behind my back) and I can even dig into the code if I want to. I'd sooner give 100 euros to the FreeBSD fountation than 10 euros to MS frankly. I gave them enough money indirectly already with all these prebuilt computers I've bought in the past decades which came with Windows preinstalled, only for me to immediately wipe them with something else.
- moron4hire 9y ago
  That's just your particular case and not indicative of the situation as a whole. I regularly encounter software that requires me to run macOS. I build virtual and augmented reality software. macOS is garbage for VR, all the major VR systems work better on Windows. But, if you want to build AR apps for iPhones (or any sort of game app, doesn't have to be AR), you need Xcode, and Xcode only runs on macOS.
Gracana 9y ago
Well you've convinced me, if I need to buy an OS to run Windows programs, it sure won't be MacOS.
e12e 9y ago
> Any other commercial OS at enterprise level is way beyond that in developer licenses. Huh? If you need one license, Windows pro is much cheaper? Along with visual studio community edition etc. It really annoys me that Apple refuses to license OS X for non-appearance hw though. Might even eventually have bought some Apple hw, if I could start developing for ios/OSX without having to start with buying a computer I don't need. (I might have bought an iphone, for example).
- pjmlp 9y ago
  For other commercial OSes I mean commercial UNIX flavors, mainframes and support contracts for Linux variants.
BlackLotus89 9y ago
That's just wrong. You could (or still can?) buy mac os installation dvds in an apple shop for 30 bucks (iirc my sister bought one a few years ago) also the "upgrade" to sierra is free without any limitation on how many machines you can legally install it on so you can create an installation medium (you can install it in qemu or probably even use coreboot with a modified tianocore to actually install it). Oh and you can download the source for the kernel (I'm not sure which versiin this really mirrors and I'm not a mac guy so I don't care) here https://opensource.apple.com/ https://opensource.apple.com/ Just because you can't easily buy a copy of it at best buy and install it without some hacking on any random computer doesn't mean that you can take the price of the cheapest mac _hardware_ say that's the price of the os and call it a day. Also your comment did completly miss the point of the parent comment.
- johncolanduoni 9y ago
  > also the "upgrade" to sierra is free without any limitation on how many machines you can legally install it so you can create an installation medium (you can install it in qemu or probably even use coreboot with a modified tianocore to actually install it) There may not be a limit to how many machines you can legally install it on (I'm actually not sure), but the license is very clear as to what machines you can install it on (i.e. only Apple hardware). Though in reality it's been quite some time since Apple tried to enforce that provision very hard, and never on individual users installing it themselves on usual PC hardware. > Oh and you can download the source for the kernel (I'm not sure which versiin this really mirrors and I'm not a mac guy so I don't care) here https://opensource.apple.com/ https://opensource.apple.com/ The kernels are usually pretty up to date, but the public code is an even smaller portion of the OS than the Linux kernel is (many key drivers are not open source, and forget anything approaching the level of the UI).
  - BlackLotus89 9y ago
    I just went into my study and got my original snow leopard dvd (the one my sister bought) and I can't find the part that states this. > but the license is very clear as to what machines you can install it on (i.e. only Apple hardware) Would be nice to get a reference on that. But ignoring this my point still stands that pjmlps comment was more a misplaced snarky remark against apple that missed the point. But hey I neither use Mac OS nor Windows (only in the circumstanced when I'm forced to offer support) so I don't really care :) But a PS: Most hardware you buy comes with a Windows license so people who don't want to buy Windows can probably still use this.

leonroy 9y ago

OEM variants without the media and box are £25 on Amazon. Worked fine for us. Came as a license key from a VAT registered reseller and activated just fine.

gruez 9y ago
be careful, those discounted keys are likely coming from bizspark/msdn accounts. they will work fine, but if you're a business and get audited you will fail the audit. in that sense you might as well use a KMS activator.

YouAreGreat 9y ago

Depending on jurisdiction you may be able to buy a "used" license. In that case, you're looking at maybe 20-30 Euros for Windows 7 Pro.

moron4hire 9y ago

The trial images are not for you to use other people's software, they are for you to test your own software, especially for testing website compatibility with Internet Explorer. If your job requires testing more often than the trial image makes convenient, you should make your client pay for the Windows license. And if you're just using the OS, I really think you have a responsibility to pay for it. And all that other stuff can be turned off.

alex_hitchins 9y ago

If you don't need the support and don't need a physical boxed product, you can likely bring this cost down to about £40. Look for OEM.