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This comment on reddit (and all the subchildren) shines a different light on that study: https://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/78f3wg/antiaging_stem_cell_tr
by faltad 9y ago
This comment on reddit (and all the subchildren) shines a different light on that study: https://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/78f3wg/antiaging_stem_cell_treatment_proves_successful/dotd0ep/ https://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/78f3wg/antiaging_s...
- m3nu 9y agoLet's hope he's right. Life is a cycle and without death the world will be a very boring place.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- keymone 9y agoyou're welcome to die whenever you want, just don't speak for the rest of us.
- hohenheim 9y agoA better way to put is that, without death we wouldn't have progressed as a race as much as we have done. We need new people with fresh ideas to come to top, take higher roles and make radical decisions. People living longer will stay in power longer and keep the status quo alive. In a longer stretch, conservationism, which grows like age, is an impediment for innovation and progress, IMHO.
- jokoon 9y agoThis sounds like darwinism. Evolution is a law of nature, not a law of society. What you say is true for species that don't have language or civilization. But since humans have technology, evolution happens in our minds, not in our DNA. And new ideas don't necessarily require new people. > radical decisions Like what? > People living longer will stay in power longer and keep the status quo alive. What kind of prediction is that?
- hohenheim 9y ago> Like what? Take any norm breaking innovation in the pass 2000 years. Any idea that sounded arcane at its time: Earth is not Flat, its not the center of universe, light is a wave and a particle, etc. Perhaps decision was not the correct word to use, "ideas" would be better. > What kind of prediction is that? A prediction like any other. I think we tend to become risk averse as we age, risk averse people don't like changes, without change you don't have a chance to fail, or succeed. If people to live longer I would think that every other stage of life would start to stretch. Take presidency as an example, its a four year cycle. If life expectancy was 200 years, would it not make sense to have presidents for 8 years? Would you retire after 30 years or 60 years?
- jokoon 9y ago> I think we tend to become risk averse as we age I don't think so. You're generalizing. Actually I would think that the opposite can happen.
- keymone 9y agocould you consider the notion, that all the progress and innovation impediments you link to age-related conservatism are actually at least partly related to the disease of aging itself? how would that change your opinion?
- tormeh 9y agoOnly partly agree. Even adults are very conservative. A bunch of forever-40 wouldn't work very well. Luckily this can be fixed. Experimental brain plasticity drugs also increases forgetfulness, which is what we really want. Knowing the old ways of doing things means that new ways won't be explored.
- keymone 9y agoi think there is a subtle difference between being conservative and being experienced. experience gives, sometimes false, impression of knowing with some degree of certainty that a certain direction is wrong or won't yield results. young people don't have that bias. conservatism is instead aversion to even agree with the results themselves if they don't conform with one's worldview. this is pure speculation on my part though.
- hacker_9 9y agoThis makes the assumption that life is simply about progressing the human species. Progression to what though? One should aim to lead a happy life, of which making things better for the next generation is a byproduct.
- hohenheim 9y agoIndeed. That is the assumption I made. Personally, for me life without progress is a meaningless one. But I can imagine the opposite as well. Once you have gotten all you need you try your best to preserve it as long as you can, anything new or different is a default no, because, why change something that is not broken? That is depressing, again from my perspective.
- Gatsky 9y agoI'm not sure about this argument. You could manage the issue in other ways eg enforced fixed terms for jobs. Also, it's difficult to predict how immortality would affect human psychology, let alone how the technology would work. Perhaps we will be able to 'freeze' someone in their mid to late twenties, at some optimal point of physical health, maturity and risk taking behaviour. I personally don't think we can take the very old and keep them alive forever. This will almost certainly result in a permanently sick state requiring constant therapy to maintain. The chance of getting cancer will approach unity at some point. Not exactly the ideal of immortal youth.
- hohenheim 9y agoYou are correct, and that is basically what I am saying. But there is two sides to the coin. Good things will decline just like bad does.
- crusso 9y agoIf we were immortal, the birth rate would decline as people worried less about continuing through progeny and more about continuing through their own lives. How many wars do you think anyone would want to fight if we didn't have an endless streams of the young who are willing to die on the battlefield? How many murders are committed by people over 30 vs under? How many people die in car accidents after 30? There's something to be said for having a world dominated by people who are mature and understand the value of their own lives.
- usrusr 9y ago> If we were immortal, the birth rate would decline Would it? In modern, low reproduction societies the dominant interpretation of the universal "honour thy father and thy mother" focuses on care. Even the slightest resemblance to a chain of command that might be present earlier stops at adulthood. But with people forever overshadowed by their undying ancestors, we might see a massive resurgence of the competing interpretation which sees it as a natural power structure. If that happens, well, welcome to pyramid scheme hell.
- wu-ikkyu 9y ago>How many wars do you think anyone would want to fight if we didn't have an endless streams of the young who are willing to die on the battlefield? We've got killer robots for that now. >How many murders are committed by people over 30 vs under? I'd guess the majority of murders have been caused by people over 30 declaring war. >How many people die in car accidents after 30? Self-driving cars sounds like a good solution >There's something to be said for having a world dominated by people who are mature and understand the value of their own lives. Yes, of course the elderly possess great wisdom, but they are also highly inflexible when it comes to thinking of new solutions to new problems. The imaginative power of the child is something highly undervalued and suppressed in our society.
- crusso 9y agoI'd guess the majority of murders have been caused by people over 30 declaring war. Well, since US elected national office is pretty much 30 and over, that's the only way wars can be declared. But there's a reason why there's the movie cliche of the old cautious king being toppled by the young warmonger. On average, young people are a lot more prone to violence. Put them in charge of a nation, and I have no doubt that wars would increase rather than decrease. Yes, of course the elderly possess great wisdom, but they are also highly inflexible when it comes to thinking of new solutions to new problems. But a lot of that is because your gray matter doesn't work as well as you become elderly. If that weren't the case, we could have young energetic minds that also are wise dominate in society.
- timthelion 9y agoImagine a world in which Xi, Kim Jong *, and a host of other wealthy dictators were immortal, and the rest of us pee-ons were not. I believe that is the future of high tech immortality.
- top256 9y agokind of Warhammer 40K?
- bamboozled 9y agoI've been thinking about this lately too, it almost feels like we're here already. I often read stories about innocent younger people dying from something tragic; However, why do I almost never wake up to, "<evil tyrannical dictator> has unexpectedly and peacefully passed away in their sleep?" Brave new world I guess?
- sleepychu 9y agoLots of innocent young people, not many dictators
- bamboozled 9y agoFair point :)
- 0xdeadbeefbabe 9y agoThe dictators started out innocent and young too.
- numismatex 9y agoBrave old world, just more networked.
- datawarrior 9y agoRobert Mugabe is an example of this.
- mcgarnagle 9y ago
- Already__Taken 9y agoI don't see how this thinking is any different than banning abortions. It's not your problem so shush.
- kobeya 9y agoShould you ban murder? (I leave this as food for thought and an explanation of why I downvoted you. We're off-topic though and shouldn't continue this thread.)
- bazoiks 9y agoShush. Liberals love the mass slaughter of babies.
- lawlessone 9y agoCondoms too, they disrupt a phase of human life.
- faltad 9y agoAging is not the only way to die, there are other ways.
- yoz-y 9y agoWell, on the anti-death side: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C25qzDhGLx8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C25qzDhGLx8 On the pro death side I think the book Risen Empire has quite interesting take on that as well. Edit: Put in the wrong link to a 24hour long video, fixed now
- jerry40 9y agoOh I'm sure there will be companies that provide a right to die for reasonable price (sized about 70-80 year salary I guess). Pity I'm not a writer, I think it is a good idea for anti-utopia about the world where people work to get a permission to die.
- fratlas 9y agoRead The Last Answer. Similar concept.
- jerry40 9y agoVery interesting! Thanks for advice!
- red75prime 9y agoOffice workers on 50th floor will certainly be highly motivated to pay the price. Also, there will be medications which mitigate the urge to die (What's the word? Antipsychotics, I guess).
- jerry40 9y agoI agree, there are many details which an author will need to explain. People can be protected by mighty authorities and live in a safe environment. But those medications will be prohibited of course. In other case people just will not be working!
- cee_el1234 9y agoAnti-aging: Slowing down or stopping aging process Anti-death: Allowing to live forever Not the same
- norlys 9y agoBut... Who would benefit from living longer? Even in European countries where everyone has a health care insurance - it would be too expensive to give everyone who gets older and more fragile with this treatment. So? The richer you are, the longer you'll live?
- bazoiks 9y agoWithout death, the world would be an absolute disaster. It's really weird how utterly petrified some people are of death.
- NeoBasilisk 9y agoHow do you find it weird that people follow the absolute strongest evolutionary imperative, the urge to keep yourself alive?
- cee_el1234 9y agoWhat if people said the same thing when every life saving invention came along ? antibiotics ? vaccines ? .... the list goes on
- UnpossibleJim 9y agoThis test isn't for life longevity, but to combat the frailty common at the end of one's life. You still get the 80 years, but the last 15ish aren't plagued by a slow, beleaguering death march, while you drain the resources of your children (also, so you can be a more productive member of society, I guess).
- crusso 9y agoThat assumes that maximum life expectancy would stay the same if you could live that maximum life with greater health. If there is a mechanism in our bodies that creates an artificial maximum of life, like a telomere - then you would be right. It also could be possible that avoiding the frailty of age means the avoidance of death. Stay healthy and you stay alive.
- pravbeatle 9y agoDeath as important as Birth when it comes to life. We only want to keep living because of sentience. If you really cared about humanity, you wouldn't impede death. It would lead to serious fragmentation of the human population with people from generations ago still alive. Not to mention the collapse of economic structures many of which are based on young v old generation. Apart from that hundreds of generations competing for resources. Not to mention everything around us evolving except humans.
- platz 9y agofeel free to let yourself pass away the next time you get sick... or will you impede death, by taking some medicine?
- jack9 9y ago> If you really cared about humanity, you wouldn't impede death. That's an ideology masquerading as wisdom.
- pravbeatle 9y agoIsn't it all ?
- juancampa 9y agoOff-topic but I'll ask anyway. Is there any tool you use or know of to match a website to posts on HN or Reddit? It would be nice to have a browser extension that would show me all reddit/HN posts pointing to the current website.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]