6 ms·

I look at it from another end - I feel there is a sort of an app fatigue. Maybe it is jut me. I used to be excited about Uber-like things, note taking apps, Dro

by rdtsc 9y ago

I look at it from another end - I feel there is a sort of an app fatigue. Maybe it is jut me. I used to be excited about Uber-like things, note taking apps, DropBox, coupon sites, review sites. Installed some of them, used them, then kind of stopped. Someone at work would say "you should try this new thing, totally cool" and I'd be inclined to do it, but now would pass it probably. Extrapolating scientifically from the sample of 1, it would seem that a small loss of excitement over trying new services and apps over the larger population would be enough to prevent the fabled hockey stick growth. No hockey sticks -> no unicorns -> less VC money for new startup -> articles about the death of startups -> comments on HN about articles about the death of startups

coldtea 9y ago
A.k.a. reality 101: there's no hockey stick growth that lasts forever.
callalex 9y ago
Apps have also gotten much worse than in their heyday. They are all built in whatever the latest cross platform iframe-with-makeup framework which always feels clunky, and they all have to start out as free to get their foot in the door and then make it their life’s purpose to annoy you repeatedly until you cave and give them $.99 every month. The hardware space is now much more diverse so a developer doesn’t have the luxury of making pixel-perfect, detailed experiences because their app has to work on watches and refrigerators as well as phones (and now there’s even a phone screen with a forehead, thanks iPhone X).
- dyarosla 9y ago
  Using phrases like 'all built with', 'all have to start out as free', and so on, is fairly inaccurate. There are plenty of apps that run native, cost money upfront, and are still viable, profitable businesses.
  - samstave 9y ago
    The "unicorn" in this statement is simple "build something people want" (to pay for) You need to add value to others no matter what you do, that's the definition of "building" Value is what is extracted from work. "Buildings" are the expression of physical labor put into something OF value. It's literally defined in our lexicon.
- mindhunters 9y ago
  It's not about apps being worse, but about good apps are difficult to discover. Now, the conditions are that if you have larger budget, you are considered better for major platforms. That's the real problem.
DamonHD 9y ago
Apps have never been that exciting to me, especially in the "on a smartphone" incarnation. Partly that's because I'm a h/w and s/w guy, but also because it's clear from a number of angles that only so much real wealth/happiness/etc can be had from just shuffling bits around without reference to the physical world. (And I say that as someone who worked in derivatives finance for the best part of 20 years!)
api 9y ago
Mobile devices are very constrained. The OSes are locked down, the screens are small, high CPU apps are out, and input is slow and cumbersome. After trying a lot of apps I have found that a smart phone has only a few functions: 1. Talking and texting. 2. Taking pictures and video. 3. Maps and directions. 4. Music, movies, ebooks. 5. Brief interactions with services like Uber, Lyft, AirBnB, Los Angeles metro, etc. 6. Casual web browsing. (I want a bigger screen and a keyboard for anything in depth.) 7. edit: Casual gaming. Looking at how most other people use phones I don't think I am alone. These devices are limited and I don't think it took us long to exhaust their potential. There just isn't much else a phone can do well (and that locked down vendor fiefdoms will allow). The PC era on the other hand gave us a long, wide, and deep trench of innovation that is still not exhausted. PCs are more open, more extensible, and have a much wider IO path to the human in the chair. The breadth of what a PC can do is incredible. (The main problem with PCs is antiquated, insecure, bloated operating systems. Fix that and I think you'd see even more innovation.) Of course I have been a mobile skeptic since the iPhone. I just saw the next incarnation of the feature phone. Since it was still locked down by carriers and vendors and since its bandwidth to the user is poor I knew it would not deliver lasting innovation.
- dyarosla 9y ago
  You forgot the biggest smartphone market: 7. Games
  - api 9y ago
    I guess I don't game much, but yes that can be added too. Still there is a huge gap between phone games and PC and console games.
    - dyarosla 9y ago
      There definitely is a gap but not in the way I think you meant; in case you were not aware, mobile games are now the biggest market segment of video games period (console, PC included)
    - justonepost 9y ago
adventurer 9y ago
I've almost given up on the Play Store. It's overblown with all sorts of useless garbage. Want an alarm clock app? There are hundreds, if not thousands. I couldn't even find what I was looking for. Paid apps., Ads, in-app. purchases. It's an alarm clock for heaven's sake.
- reitanqild 9y ago
  https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.urbandroid.sleep https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.urbandroid... Paid. Used it for years. Just works. Integrates with my Hue lights. All kinds of settings including one that refuses to turn off the alarm if I don't use the NFC code in the bathroom (you can use QR codes as well as plain barcodes as well, just hide them away from reach from your bed.
  - Roritharr 9y ago
    That's the ONE paid Android App that i have been using for 5 years now. The only other paid "App" i use is Action Launcher 2 (3 didn't click for me).
    - TeMPOraL 9y ago
      Happy Tasker user here. Well worth the little money I paid for it.
      - reitanqild 9y ago
        If someone is still visiting this thread I'm still looking for a notebook app. Something to replace my paper notebook (because that can neither be backed up nor properly encrypted). Keep is almost there with a combination of text and drawings. Missing: - links to other notes - checkboxes in between text (currently notes in Keep are either all checkboxes or no checkboxes) - tapping on tags should show all notes with that tag OneNote is also almost there. Samsung notes is also almost there. Maybe what I wish most is some way to link from my calendar to Keep and back etc etc. However, seeing how I still cannot even link to a mail in desktop Outlook I'm afraid this is only a dream.
jedberg 9y ago
That might just be because you are getting older and value your time more. I used to try every new app, every new service. I used to run Linux on my desktop. Doing those things was fun and challenging, but took time. I have kids now. I value spending time with them over fiddling with the latest app or spending an hour tuning my kernel so I can run my window manager at max resolution. I use a Mac and it just does that for me now, albeit with far less customizability and fun, but that is the tradeoff I'm willing to make. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I'm saying your sample group has an age bias. :)
- xfer 9y ago
  You don't need to customize your software every month. I haven't customized my configs for over 3 years now. I am running linux and it is a one-time effort.
  - jedberg 9y ago
    No offense, but that's kind of the fun of linux on the desktop. Also, if you really haven't updated in three years, that means that you're still running kernel 3.16, which has 81 known vulnerabilities[0], 12 of which are critical. That's the kind of stuff I don't really want to worry about anymore. [0] https://www.cvedetails.com/vulnerability-list/vendor_id-33/product_id-47/version_id-169910/Linux-Linux-Kernel-3.16.0.html https://www.cvedetails.com/vulnerability-list/vendor_id-33/p...
    - HumanDrivenDev 9y ago
      Long time (but not very religious about it) Linux user here. What operating system allows you to "not worry about" OS security updates, and how is it different from Linux?
      - raldi 9y ago
        On a Mac, you get a popup that says there's a new OS update, hit the spacebar with your forehead, get a drink while your computer reboots, and when you get back, it's restarted and put all your application windows back the way you left them, including terminal contents. In my experience, on Linux such installations are smooth for about a year and a half, and then start failing for cryptic reasons, even if you've done everything possible to pick a mainstream distro, ideal hardware, and keep the machine as vanilla as possible. (And I say this as someone who's been using Linux since the 1990's.)
mindhunters 9y ago
There is a problem with apps, but we should look at it from another angle. We all know that in the app store and play market popular apps become more popular over time and it is difficult for smaller companies to promote their products even if their solution is better. App market is now a market of couple dozens of apps that make up the most amount of revenue. For small developers, there is a too little chance to be seen at all. Actually, the whole article makes sense. Nowadays, we all see that it's difficult for small startups to promote themselves. The privilege on major platforms is given to those who pay more(ex: Google). Even if one company gains enough traction and begins to become successful, another larger corporation buys it (in best case) or makes everything to not let small competitor get larger market share. That'a a very big problem that if not solved will result in a slower progress rate.
avip 9y ago
Dude you're just growing up that's all. You'll find the sandbox is also not as fun as it used to be.
- edoceo 9y ago
  Playing in the dirt is still more fun than tapping out Beets in Dirt Farm Island Saga-TM powered by interstitial ads-after-every-beet or add Nitrogen for only $0.99
pier25 9y ago
I agree with you, I just install the basics these days when I get a new phone. Objectively speaking there are numbers to prove we are not in the minority. https://www.recode.net/2016/9/16/12933780/average-app-downloads-per-month-comscore https://www.recode.net/2016/9/16/12933780/average-app-downlo... Quick facts from that article: - 50% of users download zero apps per month - 13% of users account for more than 50% of the downloads
kamaal 9y ago
>>I look at it from another end - I feel there is a sort of an app fatigue. For all practical purposes, the early start up riches are now gone. And there is also a degree of low hanging fruit value, that gets taken early in the stage of any industry. First movers have had that advantage. After that you can have a lot of small companies providing value to small niche places, but the big money value is now taken. Every once in a while you will have some nice idea that comes along and will get big, but those will exception rather being the rule.

by rdtsc 9y ago

coldtea 9y ago

A.k.a. reality 101: there's no hockey stick growth that lasts forever.

callalex 9y ago

Apps have also gotten much worse than in their heyday. They are all built in whatever the latest cross platform iframe-with-makeup framework which always feels clunky, and they all have to start out as free to get their foot in the door and then make it their life’s purpose to annoy you repeatedly until you cave and give them $.99 every month. The hardware space is now much more diverse so a developer doesn’t have the luxury of making pixel-perfect, detailed experiences because their app has to work on watches and refrigerators as well as phones (and now there’s even a phone screen with a forehead, thanks iPhone X).

dyarosla 9y ago
Using phrases like 'all built with', 'all have to start out as free', and so on, is fairly inaccurate. There are plenty of apps that run native, cost money upfront, and are still viable, profitable businesses.
- samstave 9y ago
  The "unicorn" in this statement is simple "build something people want" (to pay for) You need to add value to others no matter what you do, that's the definition of "building" Value is what is extracted from work. "Buildings" are the expression of physical labor put into something OF value. It's literally defined in our lexicon.
mindhunters 9y ago
It's not about apps being worse, but about good apps are difficult to discover. Now, the conditions are that if you have larger budget, you are considered better for major platforms. That's the real problem.

DamonHD 9y ago

Apps have never been that exciting to me, especially in the "on a smartphone" incarnation. Partly that's because I'm a h/w and s/w guy, but also because it's clear from a number of angles that only so much real wealth/happiness/etc can be had from just shuffling bits around without reference to the physical world. (And I say that as someone who worked in derivatives finance for the best part of 20 years!)

api 9y ago

Mobile devices are very constrained. The OSes are locked down, the screens are small, high CPU apps are out, and input is slow and cumbersome. After trying a lot of apps I have found that a smart phone has only a few functions: 1. Talking and texting. 2. Taking pictures and video. 3. Maps and directions. 4. Music, movies, ebooks. 5. Brief interactions with services like Uber, Lyft, AirBnB, Los Angeles metro, etc. 6. Casual web browsing. (I want a bigger screen and a keyboard for anything in depth.) 7. edit: Casual gaming. Looking at how most other people use phones I don't think I am alone. These devices are limited and I don't think it took us long to exhaust their potential. There just isn't much else a phone can do well (and that locked down vendor fiefdoms will allow). The PC era on the other hand gave us a long, wide, and deep trench of innovation that is still not exhausted. PCs are more open, more extensible, and have a much wider IO path to the human in the chair. The breadth of what a PC can do is incredible. (The main problem with PCs is antiquated, insecure, bloated operating systems. Fix that and I think you'd see even more innovation.) Of course I have been a mobile skeptic since the iPhone. I just saw the next incarnation of the feature phone. Since it was still locked down by carriers and vendors and since its bandwidth to the user is poor I knew it would not deliver lasting innovation.

dyarosla 9y ago
You forgot the biggest smartphone market: 7. Games
- api 9y ago
  I guess I don't game much, but yes that can be added too. Still there is a huge gap between phone games and PC and console games.
  - dyarosla 9y ago
    There definitely is a gap but not in the way I think you meant; in case you were not aware, mobile games are now the biggest market segment of video games period (console, PC included)
  - justonepost 9y ago

adventurer 9y ago

I've almost given up on the Play Store. It's overblown with all sorts of useless garbage. Want an alarm clock app? There are hundreds, if not thousands. I couldn't even find what I was looking for. Paid apps., Ads, in-app. purchases. It's an alarm clock for heaven's sake.

reitanqild 9y ago
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.urbandroid.sleep https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.urbandroid... Paid. Used it for years. Just works. Integrates with my Hue lights. All kinds of settings including one that refuses to turn off the alarm if I don't use the NFC code in the bathroom (you can use QR codes as well as plain barcodes as well, just hide them away from reach from your bed.
- Roritharr 9y ago
  That's the ONE paid Android App that i have been using for 5 years now. The only other paid "App" i use is Action Launcher 2 (3 didn't click for me).
  - TeMPOraL 9y ago
    Happy Tasker user here. Well worth the little money I paid for it.
    - reitanqild 9y ago
      If someone is still visiting this thread I'm still looking for a notebook app. Something to replace my paper notebook (because that can neither be backed up nor properly encrypted). Keep is almost there with a combination of text and drawings. Missing: - links to other notes - checkboxes in between text (currently notes in Keep are either all checkboxes or no checkboxes) - tapping on tags should show all notes with that tag OneNote is also almost there. Samsung notes is also almost there. Maybe what I wish most is some way to link from my calendar to Keep and back etc etc. However, seeing how I still cannot even link to a mail in desktop Outlook I'm afraid this is only a dream.

jedberg 9y ago

That might just be because you are getting older and value your time more. I used to try every new app, every new service. I used to run Linux on my desktop. Doing those things was fun and challenging, but took time. I have kids now. I value spending time with them over fiddling with the latest app or spending an hour tuning my kernel so I can run my window manager at max resolution. I use a Mac and it just does that for me now, albeit with far less customizability and fun, but that is the tradeoff I'm willing to make. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I'm saying your sample group has an age bias. :)

xfer 9y ago
You don't need to customize your software every month. I haven't customized my configs for over 3 years now. I am running linux and it is a one-time effort.
- jedberg 9y ago
  No offense, but that's kind of the fun of linux on the desktop. Also, if you really haven't updated in three years, that means that you're still running kernel 3.16, which has 81 known vulnerabilities[0], 12 of which are critical. That's the kind of stuff I don't really want to worry about anymore. [0] https://www.cvedetails.com/vulnerability-list/vendor_id-33/product_id-47/version_id-169910/Linux-Linux-Kernel-3.16.0.html https://www.cvedetails.com/vulnerability-list/vendor_id-33/p...
  - HumanDrivenDev 9y ago
    Long time (but not very religious about it) Linux user here. What operating system allows you to "not worry about" OS security updates, and how is it different from Linux?
    - raldi 9y ago
      On a Mac, you get a popup that says there's a new OS update, hit the spacebar with your forehead, get a drink while your computer reboots, and when you get back, it's restarted and put all your application windows back the way you left them, including terminal contents. In my experience, on Linux such installations are smooth for about a year and a half, and then start failing for cryptic reasons, even if you've done everything possible to pick a mainstream distro, ideal hardware, and keep the machine as vanilla as possible. (And I say this as someone who's been using Linux since the 1990's.)

mindhunters 9y ago

There is a problem with apps, but we should look at it from another angle. We all know that in the app store and play market popular apps become more popular over time and it is difficult for smaller companies to promote their products even if their solution is better. App market is now a market of couple dozens of apps that make up the most amount of revenue. For small developers, there is a too little chance to be seen at all. Actually, the whole article makes sense. Nowadays, we all see that it's difficult for small startups to promote themselves. The privilege on major platforms is given to those who pay more(ex: Google). Even if one company gains enough traction and begins to become successful, another larger corporation buys it (in best case) or makes everything to not let small competitor get larger market share. That'a a very big problem that if not solved will result in a slower progress rate.

avip 9y ago

Dude you're just growing up that's all. You'll find the sandbox is also not as fun as it used to be.

edoceo 9y ago
Playing in the dirt is still more fun than tapping out Beets in Dirt Farm Island Saga-TM powered by interstitial ads-after-every-beet or add Nitrogen for only $0.99

pier25 9y ago

I agree with you, I just install the basics these days when I get a new phone. Objectively speaking there are numbers to prove we are not in the minority. https://www.recode.net/2016/9/16/12933780/average-app-downloads-per-month-comscore https://www.recode.net/2016/9/16/12933780/average-app-downlo... Quick facts from that article: - 50% of users download zero apps per month - 13% of users account for more than 50% of the downloads

kamaal 9y ago

>>I look at it from another end - I feel there is a sort of an app fatigue. For all practical purposes, the early start up riches are now gone. And there is also a degree of low hanging fruit value, that gets taken early in the stage of any industry. First movers have had that advantage. After that you can have a lot of small companies providing value to small niche places, but the big money value is now taken. Every once in a while you will have some nice idea that comes along and will get big, but those will exception rather being the rule.