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The body cams need to serialize their stream to a special satellite or cell provider, and a chain of auditable custody needs to be preserved at multiple data ce

The body cams need to serialize their stream to a special satellite or cell provider, and a chain of auditable custody needs to be preserved at multiple data centers. Police cannot be the masters of their own footage. It needs to exist beyond bribery, lust and international intimidation. It needs to be out of their hands and into a web of trust, as soon as the photons hit the sensors. Then it comes down to jamming, tampering, malfunction, sabotage, and any misbehavior that otherwise prevents useful recordings, since we’re talking about wearables that can be covered, discarded and left behind, even if thy can’t be turned off. But if it does get recorded, it needs to get locked up tighter than handcuffs. That video needs to dust off and nuke the site from orbit. It’s the only way to be sure.

guywhocodes 9y ago
I think it would be enough if they encrypted the video contents and stored in blocks out of order, ideally I would also have it streamed but let's be realistic about bandwidth and availability requirements for that. In the end there will always be significant on device storage. Make sure that the people who are responsible for the decryption and delivery of the content have incitement that the result is useful.
steamer25 9y ago
We just need to establish a legal precept that if the body cam footage isn't there to corroborate the cops' story, we assume the worst and they get held accountable for anything a plaintiff is able to plausibly allege. Under that scenario, most cops would become the biggest advocates for e.g., redundancies, backups and transparency.
- apsec112 9y ago
  This seems to abolish the right to be "innocent until proven guilty". It's always possible to allege a crime that no one can prove didn't happen (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell%27s_teapot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell%27s_teapot), so without a presumption of innocence, the system essentially puts the accused at the mercy of the accuser.
  - tw04 9y ago
    Given there aren't a lot of citizens randomly stopping officers to accuse them of crimes... I don't see a problem. The ISSUE right now is exactly what you've described - officers accusing citizens of crimes they didn't commit without proof beyond "their word". As someone who has been falsely accused by an officer (fortunately a minor traffic violation that I was able to make go away by paying a small fine), I've lost any faith that officers are there to serve their constituents.
    - jasonkostempski 9y ago
      Ive heard there are a lot of suspects accusing officers but body cams reduce the average amount of those accusations.
    - HumbleGamer 9y ago
      I've also been a victim of this. The police even held a mock-trial for me, with one acting as judge while his fellow officer and I both presented our sides of the story. I won't make assumptions about the likelihood of them ever actually telling another fellow officer they agree with a defendant, but it definitely did not happen in my case. Added insult to injury and a bit of a resentment towards the whole process for me and not much else.
  - steamer25 9y ago
    I was actually thinking of it as an extension of the presumption of innocence on behalf of the citizenry and keeping the burden of proof on the government as a check against it's powers. Cops are citizens too but there is some level of surrender of your individual rights e.g., when you join the military. It'd be similar to that. Another thought is the panopticon: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panopticon https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panopticon . You don't necessarily need to stream and record every cop's cam, just randomize it without indicating to the cops who's getting recorded or when.
  - rosser 9y ago
    Police need to be held to a higher standard than citizens. Currently, they're held to a ludicrously lower one. That has obvious, demonstrable consequences.
- bobbinsbob 9y ago
  I know this won't be a popular comment but it never surprises me that this attitude that police should be guilty until proven innocent arrises. It seems to be the default setting. Just like the way everyone hates the police until they need them. Everything is at some point the fault of the police. It seems like everyone wants the police to do only what they want them to and to be punished if the police do something different. Now I don't come from the US so can't comment on the problems with the police there and I don't know how the police there are funded but I know from my country that some of the "solutions" stated to hold the police to account would bankrupt the police here, but then I suppose that's the fault of the police as well. I'm all for bodycams though because at the end of the day when a fabricated complaint comes in (my experience is most of them are) then these can be easily dismissed and hopefully those people actually held to account.
  - stupidcar 9y ago
    I can't really believe there's a straight up choice between non-corrupt police and bankrupt police departments. It is true that US police seem to funded in ways that create incentives to corruption. An ideological commitment to low taxes means institutions like the police need to find other sources of revenue. This leads to a proliferation of regulations and drug and driving laws that can be used to impose fines, systems like civil forfeiture, and reliance on private "donations". In the long term, this leads to a fundamentally adversarial and extractive relationship between the police and the populace, and the situation right now where police are widely hated, or at least distrusted, by significant sections of the population. The solution to all of this is to break this extractive relationship: To prevent the police from profiting from the enforcement of some laws over others, or from seizing property only to sell it for their own gain. And, yes, to accept a rate of general taxation and redistribution that can be used to fund the institutions of a modern state. So long as the US continues to pursue the current tax model, the same shortfalls and perverse incentives to find alternative sources of revenue with exist, leading to the same poor outcomes in so many areas of government.
    - bobbinsbob 9y ago
      Like I say I can't comment on the US system regards it's policing practices, from the outside looking in it all seems open to abuse. Where I come from the government funds the police, they don't make any profit from the likes of tickets etc. Currently the police are savagely being under funded as are all public sectors and crime is on the rise but the difference between the police and other public services is that people seem to understand why the other public services are not performing as good as they were, but it's the fault to the police they aren't performing as good. Like I said I would love to see bodycams on all police but as with every public body ICT project it will be mismanaged and cost way more than it needs to. Currently the police where I am can't afford it.
matt4077 9y ago
> serialize their stream special satellite cell provider chain auditable custody preserved multiple data centers bribery lust international intimidation web of trust photons sensors jamming tampering malfunction sabotage misbehavior recordings wearables turned off recorded You're trying to solve a legal problem with technology. That's dangerous, because it's hard upper limit is the technology's long-term security. Even worse, it's real upper limit is the min(technology, law)

guywhocodes 9y ago

I think it would be enough if they encrypted the video contents and stored in blocks out of order, ideally I would also have it streamed but let's be realistic about bandwidth and availability requirements for that. In the end there will always be significant on device storage. Make sure that the people who are responsible for the decryption and delivery of the content have incitement that the result is useful.

steamer25 9y ago

We just need to establish a legal precept that if the body cam footage isn't there to corroborate the cops' story, we assume the worst and they get held accountable for anything a plaintiff is able to plausibly allege. Under that scenario, most cops would become the biggest advocates for e.g., redundancies, backups and transparency.

apsec112 9y ago
This seems to abolish the right to be "innocent until proven guilty". It's always possible to allege a crime that no one can prove didn't happen (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell%27s_teapot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell%27s_teapot), so without a presumption of innocence, the system essentially puts the accused at the mercy of the accuser.
- tw04 9y ago
  Given there aren't a lot of citizens randomly stopping officers to accuse them of crimes... I don't see a problem. The ISSUE right now is exactly what you've described - officers accusing citizens of crimes they didn't commit without proof beyond "their word". As someone who has been falsely accused by an officer (fortunately a minor traffic violation that I was able to make go away by paying a small fine), I've lost any faith that officers are there to serve their constituents.
  - jasonkostempski 9y ago
    Ive heard there are a lot of suspects accusing officers but body cams reduce the average amount of those accusations.
  - HumbleGamer 9y ago
    I've also been a victim of this. The police even held a mock-trial for me, with one acting as judge while his fellow officer and I both presented our sides of the story. I won't make assumptions about the likelihood of them ever actually telling another fellow officer they agree with a defendant, but it definitely did not happen in my case. Added insult to injury and a bit of a resentment towards the whole process for me and not much else.
- steamer25 9y ago
  I was actually thinking of it as an extension of the presumption of innocence on behalf of the citizenry and keeping the burden of proof on the government as a check against it's powers. Cops are citizens too but there is some level of surrender of your individual rights e.g., when you join the military. It'd be similar to that. Another thought is the panopticon: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panopticon https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panopticon . You don't necessarily need to stream and record every cop's cam, just randomize it without indicating to the cops who's getting recorded or when.
- rosser 9y ago
  Police need to be held to a higher standard than citizens. Currently, they're held to a ludicrously lower one. That has obvious, demonstrable consequences.
bobbinsbob 9y ago
I know this won't be a popular comment but it never surprises me that this attitude that police should be guilty until proven innocent arrises. It seems to be the default setting. Just like the way everyone hates the police until they need them. Everything is at some point the fault of the police. It seems like everyone wants the police to do only what they want them to and to be punished if the police do something different. Now I don't come from the US so can't comment on the problems with the police there and I don't know how the police there are funded but I know from my country that some of the "solutions" stated to hold the police to account would bankrupt the police here, but then I suppose that's the fault of the police as well. I'm all for bodycams though because at the end of the day when a fabricated complaint comes in (my experience is most of them are) then these can be easily dismissed and hopefully those people actually held to account.
- stupidcar 9y ago
  I can't really believe there's a straight up choice between non-corrupt police and bankrupt police departments. It is true that US police seem to funded in ways that create incentives to corruption. An ideological commitment to low taxes means institutions like the police need to find other sources of revenue. This leads to a proliferation of regulations and drug and driving laws that can be used to impose fines, systems like civil forfeiture, and reliance on private "donations". In the long term, this leads to a fundamentally adversarial and extractive relationship between the police and the populace, and the situation right now where police are widely hated, or at least distrusted, by significant sections of the population. The solution to all of this is to break this extractive relationship: To prevent the police from profiting from the enforcement of some laws over others, or from seizing property only to sell it for their own gain. And, yes, to accept a rate of general taxation and redistribution that can be used to fund the institutions of a modern state. So long as the US continues to pursue the current tax model, the same shortfalls and perverse incentives to find alternative sources of revenue with exist, leading to the same poor outcomes in so many areas of government.
  - bobbinsbob 9y ago
    Like I say I can't comment on the US system regards it's policing practices, from the outside looking in it all seems open to abuse. Where I come from the government funds the police, they don't make any profit from the likes of tickets etc. Currently the police are savagely being under funded as are all public sectors and crime is on the rise but the difference between the police and other public services is that people seem to understand why the other public services are not performing as good as they were, but it's the fault to the police they aren't performing as good. Like I said I would love to see bodycams on all police but as with every public body ICT project it will be mismanaged and cost way more than it needs to. Currently the police where I am can't afford it.

matt4077 9y ago

> serialize their stream special satellite cell provider chain auditable custody preserved multiple data centers bribery lust international intimidation web of trust photons sensors jamming tampering malfunction sabotage misbehavior recordings wearables turned off recorded You're trying to solve a legal problem with technology. That's dangerous, because it's hard upper limit is the technology's long-term security. Even worse, it's real upper limit is the min(technology, law)