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Boring Co. gets permission to begin digging in Maryland

48 points by adwmayer 9y ago

fishcolorbrick 9y ago
More details about the site in this article: http://www.govtech.com/fs/infrastructure/Maryland-Issues-Con.. http://www.govtech.com/fs/infrastructure/Maryland-Issues-Con.... "Hogan administration officials said Thursday the state has issued a conditional utility permit to let Musk’s tunneling firm, The Boring Co., dig a 10.3-mile tunnel beneath the state-owned portion of the Baltimore-Washington Parkway, between the Baltimore city line and Maryland 175 in Hanover."
- pokstad 9y ago
  That link doesn’t work for me but this one does: http://www.govtech.com/fs/infrastructure/Maryland-Issues-Conditional-Permit-for-Hyperloop-Tunnel.html http://www.govtech.com/fs/infrastructure/Maryland-Issues-Con...
tzury 9y ago
What if hyper loop will turned to be hyper flop? I mean, electric cars, then autonomous cars, solar roofs, batteries, hyperloops, boring company, send humans to the space and back. Isn’t too much to accredit one person?
- tqkxzugoaupvwqr 9y ago
  If it flops, so what? We will have gained knowledge on some pitfalls. If someone dares to try again, we won’t have to start from the beginning. I also don’t agree with your logic of … A person shouldn’t accomplish too much in life? Is that what you are saying?
  - tzury 9y ago
    I am not saying a person should not. I am simply saying a person could not. You can’t effectively run more than two companies at a time. And that is a rare success. Most are struggling running one. And here is a man running 5 or 6 companies each going to revolutionize another area in our life. It’s just don’t fit.
    - rwc 9y ago
      Unsolicited internet advice, but sounds like you could learn the art of delegation. Musk is leveraging his considerable cash to do just that.
    - criddell 9y ago
      Musk isn't doing this by himself anymore than Trump is personally running the Air Force, Army, Navy, and Marines (or are the Marines part of the Navy?).
      - KGIII 9y ago
        They are a part of the Navy, yes.
  - dogma1138 9y ago
    It doesn’t matter both SpaceX and Tesla might flop eventually my money is on Tesla more likely than SpaceX but they’ve effectively were key pioneers in those markets. The “solar roof” is more of a gimmic those tiles are less efficient than other roof mounted cells but they at least are not as ugly so they are a luxury item for people who want to have a nice looking roof over their nice looking house. They also might be a way to get solar installed in some places with very strict homeowners association regulations but they aren’t exactly a paradigm shifting innovation. The Boring Company and the hyperloop might again flop and yes this isn’t as important as SpaceX or Tesla as far as worldwide impact goes but it’s an important step at taking a new approach at the US mass public transport problem. Hyperloop is less important to other parts of the world like Japan or Europe which already have pretty decent high speed rail systems but it might be important for developing regions like Africa, India and China. Many times before pioneers and early innovators were side lined due to various reasons but their impact is not any less meaningful becuase of that. Even if Tesla disappears in 10 years it sparked an arms race in the car industry and even if it flops next year it’s too late for all the other car manufacturers to backtrack on their commitments and investments in getting EV out to the masses. If SpaceX fails it did showed that commercial space flight is possible and that reusing rockets can be done on a commercial and economical scale. For all that either company can still achieve they’ve done more than enough on their part already. As for the Boring company it might fail in a way that some one would pick up the mantle and refine the concept, it might fail in a way that would make people say whelp... this won’t work let’s build a high speed rail system finally but at least it’s not a $400 juice bag squeezer or yet another wireless speaker.
- AlexeyBrin 9y ago
  What if you wait a few years to see the results before handwaving your conclusions ? Also, people/society learn from mistakes.
- jbuild 9y ago
  While it's certainly a lot, it's not just one person. Musk seems to have a knack for getting smart, hard working people to do these projects. He's also clever enough to understand the economic factor in all of his projects.
- anko 9y ago
  > Isn’t too much to accredit one person? How is that limit set?
tedsuo 9y ago
One of the big arguments against public transit is that it's infeasible to dig tunnels. If this project succeeds, I wonder what kind of contorted logic will arise, arguing that digging tunnels for cars is feasible, but digging tunnels for subways is still infeasible?
- marcell 9y ago
  I thought the reduced diameter needed for cars allows lower cost/faster tunneling. Also, making it for cars solves the "last mile" problem that makes public transit unusable in suburban settings.
  - pas 9y ago
    The problem is, that it's veeeery low density if only a few people sit in one car. Sure, with increased efficiency and better energy economics, that's not a problem.
    - cracell 9y ago
      Couldn't you just make smaller trains that fit in the same tunnels? Sure tons of cost for R&D but just because the tunnels are smaller doesn't mean they could only be used for cars in the long term.
      - adventured 9y ago
        That appears to be the intention of sorts. Sleds that hold numerous passengers (8-10?). You can see one in the CG demo, in the first few seconds of the video, on the right: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5V_VzRrSBI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5V_VzRrSBI
        pas 9y ago
        also at 0:48
      - pas 9y ago
mozumder 9y ago
I don't know why they're doing this, except out of pure tech-broism. It's obviously not financially viable. Let's say it realistically costs $150 million a mile for the project (about average for tunnel boring - it'll actually be a lot more on the east coast due to it being solid rock and expensive labor, but let's be realistically optimistic). At 250 miles, that's $37.5 Billion right there. Let's be ridiculously generous and finance this over 50 years. Over 50 years, that's $750 million/year. Or, $2million/day. At $60/ticket, you need 34k daily riders. And that's only for building the tunnel. I haven't even factored in operating or finance costs, nevermind the millions of other expenses that this needs. Stations are normally the most expensive part of a system, for example, and a station in NYC might cost $1 billion by itself. Is this going to get 34,000 daily riders paying $60/ticket to NYC? I can see that happening with $10/ticket, but not at $60/ticket. For comparison, the entire DC Metro system itself has about 800k daily riders with about $5/trip. And then you have the stupid HyperLoop concept itself, which hasn't even been invented yet. It's based on small single-car vehicles, which may carry a couple dozen people at most. Already you can see capacity issues: To get 34,000 people a day 24-7, you need 1400 fully-packed rides a day, or one every 6 seconds. You're not going to get single-vehicles to share a track every six seconds. You're already capacity limited. How do you even slow down? Ingress/egress? And the concept itself is horrific: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNFesa01llk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNFesa01llk Like WTF people? How are there adults that believe any of this garbage? If you know anyone in your company that believes in this, just fire them on the spot. Make examples out of them. There's no excuse for this. Stick with what works: high-speed rail, which can transport a thousand people or more in one trip and doesn't need some dumb vacuum tube. This is the real competition for this. Larry Hogan has failed Maryland. And Elon Musk is the worst thing to happen to tech.
- the8472 9y ago
  We're talking about infrastructure projects here. You need to calculate more than just ticket sales.
  - wongarsu 9y ago
    For society there are many more benefits (many of them measurable in dollars). But in this project Maryland doesn't pay a cent, and if that becomes a trend then the only thing that determines the viability of financing this are ticket sales.
11thEarlOfMar 9y ago
I recall a debate early on that one of the hurdles to Hyperloop viability was obtaining right-of-way within city limits. Getting to the outskirts was seen as probably doable since obtaining right of way involves relatively large parcels and a fair whack of government owned land (i.e. freeways). But in a city, there would be too many players to satisfy and the ends of the line would not be able to get close the the center of the cities, greatly reducing the value of the system. Tunneling within city limits may resolve that.

48 points by adwmayer 9y ago

More details about the site in this article: http://www.govtech.com/fs/infrastructure/Maryland-Issues-Con.. http://www.govtech.com/fs/infrastructure/Maryland-Issues-Con.... "Hogan administration officials said Thursday the state has issued a conditional utility permit to let Musk’s tunneling firm, The Boring Co., dig a 10.3-mile tunnel beneath the state-owned portion of the Baltimore-Washington Parkway, between the Baltimore city line and Maryland 175 in Hanover."

pokstad 9y ago
That link doesn’t work for me but this one does: http://www.govtech.com/fs/infrastructure/Maryland-Issues-Conditional-Permit-for-Hyperloop-Tunnel.html http://www.govtech.com/fs/infrastructure/Maryland-Issues-Con...

tzury 9y ago

What if hyper loop will turned to be hyper flop? I mean, electric cars, then autonomous cars, solar roofs, batteries, hyperloops, boring company, send humans to the space and back. Isn’t too much to accredit one person?

tqkxzugoaupvwqr 9y ago
If it flops, so what? We will have gained knowledge on some pitfalls. If someone dares to try again, we won’t have to start from the beginning. I also don’t agree with your logic of … A person shouldn’t accomplish too much in life? Is that what you are saying?
- tzury 9y ago
  I am not saying a person should not. I am simply saying a person could not. You can’t effectively run more than two companies at a time. And that is a rare success. Most are struggling running one. And here is a man running 5 or 6 companies each going to revolutionize another area in our life. It’s just don’t fit.
  - rwc 9y ago
    Unsolicited internet advice, but sounds like you could learn the art of delegation. Musk is leveraging his considerable cash to do just that.
  - criddell 9y ago
    Musk isn't doing this by himself anymore than Trump is personally running the Air Force, Army, Navy, and Marines (or are the Marines part of the Navy?).
    - KGIII 9y ago
      They are a part of the Navy, yes.
- dogma1138 9y ago
  It doesn’t matter both SpaceX and Tesla might flop eventually my money is on Tesla more likely than SpaceX but they’ve effectively were key pioneers in those markets. The “solar roof” is more of a gimmic those tiles are less efficient than other roof mounted cells but they at least are not as ugly so they are a luxury item for people who want to have a nice looking roof over their nice looking house. They also might be a way to get solar installed in some places with very strict homeowners association regulations but they aren’t exactly a paradigm shifting innovation. The Boring Company and the hyperloop might again flop and yes this isn’t as important as SpaceX or Tesla as far as worldwide impact goes but it’s an important step at taking a new approach at the US mass public transport problem. Hyperloop is less important to other parts of the world like Japan or Europe which already have pretty decent high speed rail systems but it might be important for developing regions like Africa, India and China. Many times before pioneers and early innovators were side lined due to various reasons but their impact is not any less meaningful becuase of that. Even if Tesla disappears in 10 years it sparked an arms race in the car industry and even if it flops next year it’s too late for all the other car manufacturers to backtrack on their commitments and investments in getting EV out to the masses. If SpaceX fails it did showed that commercial space flight is possible and that reusing rockets can be done on a commercial and economical scale. For all that either company can still achieve they’ve done more than enough on their part already. As for the Boring company it might fail in a way that some one would pick up the mantle and refine the concept, it might fail in a way that would make people say whelp... this won’t work let’s build a high speed rail system finally but at least it’s not a $400 juice bag squeezer or yet another wireless speaker.
AlexeyBrin 9y ago
What if you wait a few years to see the results before handwaving your conclusions ? Also, people/society learn from mistakes.
jbuild 9y ago
While it's certainly a lot, it's not just one person. Musk seems to have a knack for getting smart, hard working people to do these projects. He's also clever enough to understand the economic factor in all of his projects.
anko 9y ago
> Isn’t too much to accredit one person? How is that limit set?

tedsuo 9y ago

One of the big arguments against public transit is that it's infeasible to dig tunnels. If this project succeeds, I wonder what kind of contorted logic will arise, arguing that digging tunnels for cars is feasible, but digging tunnels for subways is still infeasible?

marcell 9y ago
I thought the reduced diameter needed for cars allows lower cost/faster tunneling. Also, making it for cars solves the "last mile" problem that makes public transit unusable in suburban settings.
- pas 9y ago
  The problem is, that it's veeeery low density if only a few people sit in one car. Sure, with increased efficiency and better energy economics, that's not a problem.
  - cracell 9y ago
    Couldn't you just make smaller trains that fit in the same tunnels? Sure tons of cost for R&D but just because the tunnels are smaller doesn't mean they could only be used for cars in the long term.
    - adventured 9y ago
      That appears to be the intention of sorts. Sleds that hold numerous passengers (8-10?). You can see one in the CG demo, in the first few seconds of the video, on the right: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5V_VzRrSBI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5V_VzRrSBI
      - pas 9y ago
        also at 0:48
    - pas 9y ago

mozumder 9y ago

I don't know why they're doing this, except out of pure tech-broism. It's obviously not financially viable. Let's say it realistically costs $150 million a mile for the project (about average for tunnel boring - it'll actually be a lot more on the east coast due to it being solid rock and expensive labor, but let's be realistically optimistic). At 250 miles, that's $37.5 Billion right there. Let's be ridiculously generous and finance this over 50 years. Over 50 years, that's $750 million/year. Or, $2million/day. At $60/ticket, you need 34k daily riders. And that's only for building the tunnel. I haven't even factored in operating or finance costs, nevermind the millions of other expenses that this needs. Stations are normally the most expensive part of a system, for example, and a station in NYC might cost $1 billion by itself. Is this going to get 34,000 daily riders paying $60/ticket to NYC? I can see that happening with $10/ticket, but not at $60/ticket. For comparison, the entire DC Metro system itself has about 800k daily riders with about $5/trip. And then you have the stupid HyperLoop concept itself, which hasn't even been invented yet. It's based on small single-car vehicles, which may carry a couple dozen people at most. Already you can see capacity issues: To get 34,000 people a day 24-7, you need 1400 fully-packed rides a day, or one every 6 seconds. You're not going to get single-vehicles to share a track every six seconds. You're already capacity limited. How do you even slow down? Ingress/egress? And the concept itself is horrific: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNFesa01llk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNFesa01llk Like WTF people? How are there adults that believe any of this garbage? If you know anyone in your company that believes in this, just fire them on the spot. Make examples out of them. There's no excuse for this. Stick with what works: high-speed rail, which can transport a thousand people or more in one trip and doesn't need some dumb vacuum tube. This is the real competition for this. Larry Hogan has failed Maryland. And Elon Musk is the worst thing to happen to tech.

the8472 9y ago
We're talking about infrastructure projects here. You need to calculate more than just ticket sales.
- wongarsu 9y ago
  For society there are many more benefits (many of them measurable in dollars). But in this project Maryland doesn't pay a cent, and if that becomes a trend then the only thing that determines the viability of financing this are ticket sales.

11thEarlOfMar 9y ago

I recall a debate early on that one of the hurdles to Hyperloop viability was obtaining right-of-way within city limits. Getting to the outskirts was seen as probably doable since obtaining right of way involves relatively large parcels and a fair whack of government owned land (i.e. freeways). But in a city, there would be too many players to satisfy and the ends of the line would not be able to get close the the center of the cities, greatly reducing the value of the system. Tunneling within city limits may resolve that.