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>When I look at a tool like Gulp, I wonder if its success is largely attributable to people not bothering to learn how Makefiles work I have. And then I learne

>When I look at a tool like Gulp, I wonder if its success is largely attributable to people not bothering to learn how Makefiles work I have. And then I learned that I also need autoconf/automake/m4 (which the author is not mentioning). So there is complexity already out there (even for makefiles) >server applications ship entire operating systems in glorified chroots; If this is about Docker, I don't think that the author truly knows how Docker works.

deleted 9y ago
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blueflow 9y ago
>And then I learned that I also need autoconf/automake/m4 Make is well on its own, especially for everything that is not portable C. >server applications ship entire operating systems in glorified chroots; - Docker containers are running chroot'ed - Containers still do have an whole POSIX-ly userland with shell and coreutils. You can extract every container onto an disk and make an static linux kernel boot it.
- alyandon 9y ago
  - Containers still do have an whole POSIX-ly userland with shell and coreutils. You can extract every container onto an disk and make an static linux kernel boot it. What's in a docker image is entirely up to the image creator. Docker containers don't necessarily have to use a complete userland + init system as a base.
  - blueflow 9y ago
    In practice, containers do have a shell, since a few things (Dockerfile RUN & CMD in non-exec mode, environment variable substitution, docker exec shell) dont work without it.
    - webster23 9y ago
      But you don't have to have all that, you can have just a single executable in the container, like here for example: https://github.com/containous/traefik-library-image/blob/f24cd6a1a31933c76ab397868b5da84d43f5d2ff/scratch/amd64/Dockerfile https://github.com/containous/traefik-library-image/blob/f24...
- kkapelon 9y ago
  >Make is well on its own, especially for everything that is not portable C Do you have examples of non trivial projects that use only Makefiles and nothing else as a build system?
  - blueflow 9y ago
    My own "distro": https://github.com/ainriver/tonic https://github.com/ainriver/tonic Its a messy pile of rules tho, but easy to hack some more stuff in or just generate a quick rootfs. Beside from that, i remember the syslinux bootloader being that way. The linux kernel, busybox and the buildroot distribution also use kconfig, which is Makefile with some config engine in C. If you maintain packages for a distributions, you see what other stuff is used instead of autotools.

deleted 9y ago

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blueflow 9y ago

>And then I learned that I also need autoconf/automake/m4 Make is well on its own, especially for everything that is not portable C. >server applications ship entire operating systems in glorified chroots; - Docker containers are running chroot'ed - Containers still do have an whole POSIX-ly userland with shell and coreutils. You can extract every container onto an disk and make an static linux kernel boot it.

alyandon 9y ago
- Containers still do have an whole POSIX-ly userland with shell and coreutils. You can extract every container onto an disk and make an static linux kernel boot it. What's in a docker image is entirely up to the image creator. Docker containers don't necessarily have to use a complete userland + init system as a base.
- blueflow 9y ago
  In practice, containers do have a shell, since a few things (Dockerfile RUN & CMD in non-exec mode, environment variable substitution, docker exec shell) dont work without it.
  - webster23 9y ago
    But you don't have to have all that, you can have just a single executable in the container, like here for example: https://github.com/containous/traefik-library-image/blob/f24cd6a1a31933c76ab397868b5da84d43f5d2ff/scratch/amd64/Dockerfile https://github.com/containous/traefik-library-image/blob/f24...
kkapelon 9y ago
>Make is well on its own, especially for everything that is not portable C Do you have examples of non trivial projects that use only Makefiles and nothing else as a build system?
- blueflow 9y ago
  My own "distro": https://github.com/ainriver/tonic https://github.com/ainriver/tonic Its a messy pile of rules tho, but easy to hack some more stuff in or just generate a quick rootfs. Beside from that, i remember the syslinux bootloader being that way. The linux kernel, busybox and the buildroot distribution also use kconfig, which is Makefile with some config engine in C. If you maintain packages for a distributions, you see what other stuff is used instead of autotools.