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> It is up to the maintainers of those tools to keep up with new macOS releases. Why should stable tools which has been working for decades constantly have to

> It is up to the maintainers of those tools to keep up with new macOS releases. Why should stable tools which has been working for decades constantly have to change their source-code to keep working on Apple's OS, a piece of software whose primary task is running software the user wants to run no less? Apple should make sure the user's software runs on its OS, not the other way around. Stop apologizing for what is essentially the world's wealthiest corporation being lazy and putting the maintenance cost of its own OS on everyone else.

chii 9y ago
When shit breaks in the new version, people should stop upgrading to the latest macos! Apple has found that they don't need to put effort into api backwards compatibility because people are still freaking upgrading. It costs money to ensure backwards compatibility, so not doing it is desirable. The end user has to put pressure on Apple to do is.
- coldtea 9y ago
  You missed the fact that fixing problems and not stacking technical debt for the sake of "backwards compatibility" is also desirable.
  - josteink 9y ago
    Any particular reason you decided to quote backwards compatibility, as if it's not a real thing?
    - coldtea 9y ago
      Quotes are not only used to denote non-real things -- if anything that's a quite recent (couple decades) trend.
      - sillysaurus3 9y ago
        "recent"
        coldtea 9y ago
        Well, with the advent of irony it really took off.
- baldfat 9y ago
  Developers need to support Apple as much as they deserve, and really do they deserve much? From Hardware i.e. the Mac Pro (Not innovative? How about just make one workstation for Video Production that is valuable) and the Touch Bar. Software, Final Cut Pro the past 4 years and the crashes I see in my apps. Then Mac OS' move to iOS touch gestures on touch pad but I use it in dock mode drive me crazy. Mac OS and OS X thing that was just incredible is the OPTIONAL case sensitivity. If you haven't had to work with Adobe products on Mac this might not be such a big deal but ugh. My mind blows every time I have to use MacOS for some job. Sure they have a optional case sensitive command line that works almost like a Unix (See optional case sensitive in 2017), but it really just is a mess unless your workflow is like everyone else's. No flexibility if your working with a team.
adrianN 9y ago
You have to break things occasionally or you end up in backwards-compatibility hell where every bug is a feature that is absolutely essential to somebody's workflow. https://xkcd.com/1172/ https://xkcd.com/1172/
anko 9y ago
backwards compatibility has a high cost over the long term - if you're not supporting it, you're free to make your software better at your own whim. That's a strong postition to be in. I would say the primary purpose of macos isn't to cater for everyone, it's to make using a computer a pleasurable experience for the non technical. It's about bringing computing to the masses. If you're in a mahochist niche, good for you but you're better off on linux. For me, macOs is pleasurable for the most part, and i'm technical enough to work around any problems I face. On windows/linux I have to do that for features that aren't even nearly advanced.
- K0SM0S 9y ago
  EDIT: It would be great if downvoters took the time to indicate which part specifically they think is wrong. I've edited the post to remove unnecessary antagonizing parts. Remember that this is merely my opinion. > features that aren't even nearly advanced Windows, while not a UNIX basis (which can be an actual problem for technically-inclined users, eg developers) is vastly more advanced that macOS, especially for business users. Generally for maintream users, Windows or macOS are both intuitive after enough time spent using them; what's putting off is to switch from one to the other (eg shortcuts, etc.) Windows management (I mean the app's windows, not the OS) is notoriously bad on OSX these days compared to most other Desktop Environments. Likewise for Linux, certainly the least user-friendly but second to none to perform advanced stuff (eg Deep Learning, or 'edgy' virtualization for instance involving GPU pass-through). Don't get this the wrong way, macOS is OK for the masses, but on par with Windows 10 nowadays. This is a personal opinion based on using all three OS daily, and from observing friends/family using any of them. As long as you make the right choice, there's no 'better' OS, just different pros and cons that suit each user more or less. Most notably, I now have to troubleshoot my mother's workflow on OSX/iOS (simple stuff, mostly related to printing and sharing pictures/scans), it wasn't so a few years ago. As of 2017 I personally have a much simpler experience out of the box on Android+Windows.
  - abritinthebay 9y ago
    You’re getting downvotes because you’re making statements that a) show complete ignorance about modern OS design & technology and b) conflating how “advanced” an OS is with you & your mother’s UI preferences.

chii 9y ago

When shit breaks in the new version, people should stop upgrading to the latest macos! Apple has found that they don't need to put effort into api backwards compatibility because people are still freaking upgrading. It costs money to ensure backwards compatibility, so not doing it is desirable. The end user has to put pressure on Apple to do is.

coldtea 9y ago
You missed the fact that fixing problems and not stacking technical debt for the sake of "backwards compatibility" is also desirable.
- josteink 9y ago
  Any particular reason you decided to quote backwards compatibility, as if it's not a real thing?
  - coldtea 9y ago
    Quotes are not only used to denote non-real things -- if anything that's a quite recent (couple decades) trend.
    - sillysaurus3 9y ago
      "recent"
      - coldtea 9y ago
        Well, with the advent of irony it really took off.
baldfat 9y ago
Developers need to support Apple as much as they deserve, and really do they deserve much? From Hardware i.e. the Mac Pro (Not innovative? How about just make one workstation for Video Production that is valuable) and the Touch Bar. Software, Final Cut Pro the past 4 years and the crashes I see in my apps. Then Mac OS' move to iOS touch gestures on touch pad but I use it in dock mode drive me crazy. Mac OS and OS X thing that was just incredible is the OPTIONAL case sensitivity. If you haven't had to work with Adobe products on Mac this might not be such a big deal but ugh. My mind blows every time I have to use MacOS for some job. Sure they have a optional case sensitive command line that works almost like a Unix (See optional case sensitive in 2017), but it really just is a mess unless your workflow is like everyone else's. No flexibility if your working with a team.

adrianN 9y ago

You have to break things occasionally or you end up in backwards-compatibility hell where every bug is a feature that is absolutely essential to somebody's workflow. https://xkcd.com/1172/ https://xkcd.com/1172/

anko 9y ago

backwards compatibility has a high cost over the long term - if you're not supporting it, you're free to make your software better at your own whim. That's a strong postition to be in. I would say the primary purpose of macos isn't to cater for everyone, it's to make using a computer a pleasurable experience for the non technical. It's about bringing computing to the masses. If you're in a mahochist niche, good for you but you're better off on linux. For me, macOs is pleasurable for the most part, and i'm technical enough to work around any problems I face. On windows/linux I have to do that for features that aren't even nearly advanced.

K0SM0S 9y ago
EDIT: It would be great if downvoters took the time to indicate which part specifically they think is wrong. I've edited the post to remove unnecessary antagonizing parts. Remember that this is merely my opinion. > features that aren't even nearly advanced Windows, while not a UNIX basis (which can be an actual problem for technically-inclined users, eg developers) is vastly more advanced that macOS, especially for business users. Generally for maintream users, Windows or macOS are both intuitive after enough time spent using them; what's putting off is to switch from one to the other (eg shortcuts, etc.) Windows management (I mean the app's windows, not the OS) is notoriously bad on OSX these days compared to most other Desktop Environments. Likewise for Linux, certainly the least user-friendly but second to none to perform advanced stuff (eg Deep Learning, or 'edgy' virtualization for instance involving GPU pass-through). Don't get this the wrong way, macOS is OK for the masses, but on par with Windows 10 nowadays. This is a personal opinion based on using all three OS daily, and from observing friends/family using any of them. As long as you make the right choice, there's no 'better' OS, just different pros and cons that suit each user more or less. Most notably, I now have to troubleshoot my mother's workflow on OSX/iOS (simple stuff, mostly related to printing and sharing pictures/scans), it wasn't so a few years ago. As of 2017 I personally have a much simpler experience out of the box on Android+Windows.
- abritinthebay 9y ago
  You’re getting downvotes because you’re making statements that a) show complete ignorance about modern OS design & technology and b) conflating how “advanced” an OS is with you & your mother’s UI preferences.