4 ms·

College is a huge waste of money for someone who doesn't value it. Debt sucks.

funfunfunction 9y ago
This was my original thinking though I've come to realize that college is about much much more than education in the formal sense.
- HiroshiSan 9y ago
  I'm currently in college, what else is it about? (I'm genuinely curious) I'm studying mathematics (it's the only degree I could see being worth while in a purely intellectual and educational sense)
  - funfunfunction 9y ago
    I've never been to college, but I guess I would say it seems like college is as much about figuring out what you want in life and finding people who can offer perspectives you may not have considered as it is getting an education. I grew up in small town and this sort of thing is attractive to me.
    - HiroshiSan 9y ago
      As others have pointed out it's a very expensive place to figure out what you want in life. I feel like figuring out what you want in life is just a product of growing up and being open to different experiences. College is probably a very good bubble to experience a lot of things in a safe environment where room for error is high (and I don't mean not passing your courses). But you could probably replicate this in other ways for example in the work place, talking to a lot of people, etc,.
      - anko 9y ago
        dude turn up to random classes! nobody will notice. The chicks doing psychology are amazing.
        Hendrixer 9y ago
        > dude turn up to random classes! nobody will notice. The chicks doing psychology are amazing.
      - jklein11 9y ago
        I think its possible to replicate the college experience outside of academia, but I think its a good way to take the risk out. In college, you are in a cohort of peers who are prioritizing growing/learning over most other things. In the workforce, that is not a guarantee. Sure you may be lucky enough to join an organization that is willing to take risks for the sake of learning, but I would argue that this is incredibly rare as companies are motivated to make profits and the ROI is not always clear. This doesn't mean that college will automatically make you adaptable and intellectually curious. You will only get back what you put into it.
      - speedplane 9y ago
        You don't have to spend a ton of money on college. And valuing it solely based on money-in money-out ignores so much of it's value. It's part of your life, an experience. It's like saying traveling abroad, skydiving, or climbing a mountain is not an economical use of your resources. The social exchanges and experiences you get are pretty invaluable.
  - lwansbrough 9y ago
    Consider that you're spending $X on college, when you could probably just as easily buy the text book (or not!) and do courses online for free. So what is it that you want to get out of college? If you don't know, why are you paying? I'm not hiring, but I'd personally rather see someone who self taught themselves some specific discipline, and then used the money they would have spent on college to apply their knowledge to build something for themselves (whether that's taking knowledge of math and building an investment portfolio, or taking knowledge of software and building a business/app, etc.) If I were you I'd just ask "am I getting what I want out of college?" and if not, change that. If you don't know what else it's about, observe, ask, research, ask people on HN, whatever. Disclaimer: never went.
    - HiroshiSan 9y ago
      I know what it is about to me, I was curious about what it was about to him. Now in terms of math I can only speak for myself but it would probably take me 10x longer to learn what I have learnt, if it wasn't for being surrounded by professionals and a peer group where I can have my assumptions tested against. Now I'm not saying it's impossible to self teach yourself advanced mathematics, but without tutorials, office hours, students to talk to, professors to talk to, it's going to be a very difficult road and one I'm not sure I could do the self-taught method.
    - outworlder 9y ago
      > Consider that you're spending $X on college, when you could probably just as easily buy the text book (or not!) and do courses online for free. So what is it that you want to get out of college? If you don't know, why are you paying? Heh. I got a specially tough mathematical logic professor and failed multiple times. It literally took me years until I finally passed the class. And several textbooks and nights with little to no sleep. I had to rinse my brain and put it back a few times until I finally got it. Sure, go with a textbook if you are ok with some superficial knowledge. But it's nonsense to compare that with spending months studying a single subject under a tough teacher. It is not something required to be successful, but I'm getting tired of hearing stuff like "just buy a book, it's the same thing". No, it's not. It is, however, a good idea to do so, and use that to figure out if going deeper in those subjects would be worthwhile. Disclaimer: never learned calculus properly. Teacher wasn't strict enough, and I didn't care at the time. Big mistake.
  - anko 9y ago
    sexual education, making friends for life (as you get older, people get into groups of friends and it's harder to make real "life" connections"), networking with people outside your future industry, trying things, getting new hobbies, parties etc. You're at your peak in terms of learning new subjects, so if you get a chance, learn a few random ones! It's said that apple's focus on design and typography wouldn't have happened if Steve Jobs hadn't dropped in on some calligraphy classes during college.
- amorphid 9y ago
  Going through the motions of going to school is a waste of time if you don't take it seriously. One can "grow up" or "see the light" by doing committing to anything substantial and seeing it through, and there are much cheaper ways to accomplish that than going to college. For example, let's say one isn't sure about going to college. Instead of spending 4 years and a bajillion dollars to find out if college is right for you, and it might not be, how about washing dishes for a few months at a local restaurant? For one, you might love washing dishes. Two, a lot of stuff can come into focus when you spend doing something you don't really want to do. Just a thought.
  - funfunfunction 9y ago
    I saw your other comment about starting something of my own and thought that was good advice. As far as college goes, I definitely wouldn't go unless I was serious about it and social aspect is especially attractive. Most people I interact with are 15+ years older than me and it's getting a little boring. It's also hard to make friends when everyone your age is in college.
- tacostakohashi 9y ago
  Right. I also am a self taught programmer working in industry since straight after high school, although in my case it has been closer to 20 years. This has never been a problem in terms of skills or employment and advancement. The only part I feel I missed out on is the networking aspect, and perhaps doing a minor subject, some language, literature or general studies unit or two would make one a more well-rounded person. It's hard to justify the time and expense just for these benefits though.
gommm 9y ago
You can go to another country where college is much less expensive or free (like France or Germany, some of those countries even subsidize the apartment rent for students). It takes grit to force yourself to learn a different language but it can be worth it. And, as a bonus, in non-english speaking countries foreigners will have often a easier time getting admitted in an exclusive university than locals because universities want to be more international and increase diversity. It's not worth getting into debts for an education you could have for free somewhere else.
zaccus 9y ago
100% agree. I hated it. It was expensive, stressful, and unrewarding. My loans won't be paid off until I'm in my mid 40s. I feel like a sucker who fell for a scam. It's objectively the biggest mistake I ever made. I'm sure my perspective will be soundly dismissed on HN. I'm sure I must have done college "wrong" or something. Whatever. I'm not trying to blame anyone else. My choices seemed like good ones at the time; these things are only clear in retrospect.
- jsjohnst 9y ago
  I don’t normally reply on Ask HN threads, but just wanted to say I know what you mean and agree.
- vong 9y ago
  Where / what did you study? Asking because I'm half curious and half astonished that college can cost so much (coming from someone outside of the US). Felt like I did college wrong too, and it cost 4 years and ~22k USD, in return for .. nothing much really.
  - speedplane 9y ago
    Ha... 22k USD? You got off easy. Four years at a private college in the US can easily top 150k.
- akulbe 9y ago
  I completely agree with you, and I'm in my mid-40's still paying off college debt for a degree that hasn't helped. (I was a business management major) Unless, you're going to be a doctor/lawyer/engineer/$FIELD_THAT_REQUIRES_LICENSING... then college is a scam, and a waste of time and money. Don't be fooled, education != college. You CAN get educated for much less, in MANY other ways, for much less money (if not free).
  - amorphid 9y ago
    I'm in my 40s and still paying off the debt incurred to get 2 business degrees. Maybe the advice should be "don't major in business!" :P
zerr 9y ago
Agree, but what about all the scholarships and free state universities?

This was my original thinking though I've come to realize that college is about much much more than education in the formal sense.

HiroshiSan 9y ago
I'm currently in college, what else is it about? (I'm genuinely curious) I'm studying mathematics (it's the only degree I could see being worth while in a purely intellectual and educational sense)
- funfunfunction 9y ago
  I've never been to college, but I guess I would say it seems like college is as much about figuring out what you want in life and finding people who can offer perspectives you may not have considered as it is getting an education. I grew up in small town and this sort of thing is attractive to me.
  - HiroshiSan 9y ago
    As others have pointed out it's a very expensive place to figure out what you want in life. I feel like figuring out what you want in life is just a product of growing up and being open to different experiences. College is probably a very good bubble to experience a lot of things in a safe environment where room for error is high (and I don't mean not passing your courses). But you could probably replicate this in other ways for example in the work place, talking to a lot of people, etc,.
    - anko 9y ago
      dude turn up to random classes! nobody will notice. The chicks doing psychology are amazing.
      - Hendrixer 9y ago
        > dude turn up to random classes! nobody will notice. The chicks doing psychology are amazing.
    - jklein11 9y ago
      I think its possible to replicate the college experience outside of academia, but I think its a good way to take the risk out. In college, you are in a cohort of peers who are prioritizing growing/learning over most other things. In the workforce, that is not a guarantee. Sure you may be lucky enough to join an organization that is willing to take risks for the sake of learning, but I would argue that this is incredibly rare as companies are motivated to make profits and the ROI is not always clear. This doesn't mean that college will automatically make you adaptable and intellectually curious. You will only get back what you put into it.
    - speedplane 9y ago
      You don't have to spend a ton of money on college. And valuing it solely based on money-in money-out ignores so much of it's value. It's part of your life, an experience. It's like saying traveling abroad, skydiving, or climbing a mountain is not an economical use of your resources. The social exchanges and experiences you get are pretty invaluable.
- lwansbrough 9y ago
  Consider that you're spending $X on college, when you could probably just as easily buy the text book (or not!) and do courses online for free. So what is it that you want to get out of college? If you don't know, why are you paying? I'm not hiring, but I'd personally rather see someone who self taught themselves some specific discipline, and then used the money they would have spent on college to apply their knowledge to build something for themselves (whether that's taking knowledge of math and building an investment portfolio, or taking knowledge of software and building a business/app, etc.) If I were you I'd just ask "am I getting what I want out of college?" and if not, change that. If you don't know what else it's about, observe, ask, research, ask people on HN, whatever. Disclaimer: never went.
  - HiroshiSan 9y ago
    I know what it is about to me, I was curious about what it was about to him. Now in terms of math I can only speak for myself but it would probably take me 10x longer to learn what I have learnt, if it wasn't for being surrounded by professionals and a peer group where I can have my assumptions tested against. Now I'm not saying it's impossible to self teach yourself advanced mathematics, but without tutorials, office hours, students to talk to, professors to talk to, it's going to be a very difficult road and one I'm not sure I could do the self-taught method.
  - outworlder 9y ago
    > Consider that you're spending $X on college, when you could probably just as easily buy the text book (or not!) and do courses online for free. So what is it that you want to get out of college? If you don't know, why are you paying? Heh. I got a specially tough mathematical logic professor and failed multiple times. It literally took me years until I finally passed the class. And several textbooks and nights with little to no sleep. I had to rinse my brain and put it back a few times until I finally got it. Sure, go with a textbook if you are ok with some superficial knowledge. But it's nonsense to compare that with spending months studying a single subject under a tough teacher. It is not something required to be successful, but I'm getting tired of hearing stuff like "just buy a book, it's the same thing". No, it's not. It is, however, a good idea to do so, and use that to figure out if going deeper in those subjects would be worthwhile. Disclaimer: never learned calculus properly. Teacher wasn't strict enough, and I didn't care at the time. Big mistake.
- anko 9y ago
  sexual education, making friends for life (as you get older, people get into groups of friends and it's harder to make real "life" connections"), networking with people outside your future industry, trying things, getting new hobbies, parties etc. You're at your peak in terms of learning new subjects, so if you get a chance, learn a few random ones! It's said that apple's focus on design and typography wouldn't have happened if Steve Jobs hadn't dropped in on some calligraphy classes during college.
amorphid 9y ago
Going through the motions of going to school is a waste of time if you don't take it seriously. One can "grow up" or "see the light" by doing committing to anything substantial and seeing it through, and there are much cheaper ways to accomplish that than going to college. For example, let's say one isn't sure about going to college. Instead of spending 4 years and a bajillion dollars to find out if college is right for you, and it might not be, how about washing dishes for a few months at a local restaurant? For one, you might love washing dishes. Two, a lot of stuff can come into focus when you spend doing something you don't really want to do. Just a thought.
- funfunfunction 9y ago
  I saw your other comment about starting something of my own and thought that was good advice. As far as college goes, I definitely wouldn't go unless I was serious about it and social aspect is especially attractive. Most people I interact with are 15+ years older than me and it's getting a little boring. It's also hard to make friends when everyone your age is in college.
tacostakohashi 9y ago
Right. I also am a self taught programmer working in industry since straight after high school, although in my case it has been closer to 20 years. This has never been a problem in terms of skills or employment and advancement. The only part I feel I missed out on is the networking aspect, and perhaps doing a minor subject, some language, literature or general studies unit or two would make one a more well-rounded person. It's hard to justify the time and expense just for these benefits though.

gommm 9y ago

You can go to another country where college is much less expensive or free (like France or Germany, some of those countries even subsidize the apartment rent for students). It takes grit to force yourself to learn a different language but it can be worth it. And, as a bonus, in non-english speaking countries foreigners will have often a easier time getting admitted in an exclusive university than locals because universities want to be more international and increase diversity. It's not worth getting into debts for an education you could have for free somewhere else.

zaccus 9y ago

100% agree. I hated it. It was expensive, stressful, and unrewarding. My loans won't be paid off until I'm in my mid 40s. I feel like a sucker who fell for a scam. It's objectively the biggest mistake I ever made. I'm sure my perspective will be soundly dismissed on HN. I'm sure I must have done college "wrong" or something. Whatever. I'm not trying to blame anyone else. My choices seemed like good ones at the time; these things are only clear in retrospect.

jsjohnst 9y ago
I don’t normally reply on Ask HN threads, but just wanted to say I know what you mean and agree.
vong 9y ago
Where / what did you study? Asking because I'm half curious and half astonished that college can cost so much (coming from someone outside of the US). Felt like I did college wrong too, and it cost 4 years and ~22k USD, in return for .. nothing much really.
- speedplane 9y ago
  Ha... 22k USD? You got off easy. Four years at a private college in the US can easily top 150k.
akulbe 9y ago
I completely agree with you, and I'm in my mid-40's still paying off college debt for a degree that hasn't helped. (I was a business management major) Unless, you're going to be a doctor/lawyer/engineer/$FIELD_THAT_REQUIRES_LICENSING... then college is a scam, and a waste of time and money. Don't be fooled, education != college. You CAN get educated for much less, in MANY other ways, for much less money (if not free).
- amorphid 9y ago
  I'm in my 40s and still paying off the debt incurred to get 2 business degrees. Maybe the advice should be "don't major in business!" :P

zerr 9y ago

Agree, but what about all the scholarships and free state universities?