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Yes. This is a case of hard data confirming what we already know. As in - few types of butterflies I used to like, and see yearly as a kid - are gone. I see the
by avip 9y ago
Yes. This is a case of hard data confirming what we already know. As in - few types of butterflies I used to like, and see yearly as a kid - are gone. I see them now once in 5 years, if lucky. I bring my kids to look because it's a first time for them.
On the other hand, some types of beetles, ants, flies, mosquitoes, even wasps - are just new. They were not here 20-30 years ago. Now, what are the consequences of all that... I kind of feel we'll find out sooner than we'd like.
- knodi 9y agoThis kind of the same thing I'm seeing with firefly in Michigan. In the summer time when I first moved to MI over 30 years ago I use to see them everywhere in large amounts. This year they're back but last 3 years I didn't see them at all. As long as there are climate change deniers a.k.a Trump supports we're all in a lot of trouble, even humans.
- avip 9y agoI wouldn't jump into blaming the climate. We've shifted many parts of a very complex system in the last 50+ years. I'd put monoculture and pesticides higher on my list of suspects.
- coliveira 9y agoOne of our problems is the idea that a single cause is responsible for these things. It is not just pesticides or CO2 or some other single change. It is the combination of those changes (even the small ones) that is driving this huge environmental problem. The only way to get out of this is starting to think of the environment is a complex system that needs to be preserved, not trying to find a single culprit that we can manipulate.
- andai 9y agoLess finger-pointing, more parameter-tweaking!
- GlenTheMachine 9y agoAs an anecdotal data point, I'm trying to establish a robust, poly-culture, mostly chemical-free agricultural system on my hobby farm. We do seem to get more flying insects on my place than our neighbors, all of whom have grass lawns. Critters of all kinds, in fact - lots of frogs and toads as well, and box turtles. Obviously I haven't done a scientific study, but we see butterflies, lighting bugs, and so on; not as many as I saw growing up but they are there in some numbers. If you look around suburbia, there really isn't much ecological space for anything to grow unless it can survive on grass. Even in a lot of rural areas, with the advent of heavy-chemical farming and bigger and bigger monocultures, we're taking a lot of living space away from mother nature.
- ioquatix 9y agoI think it's up to city planners to include more green belts. Better for the environment, better for water drainage, better for humans, it's really win win win.
- monodeldiablo 9y agoCity planners would if they could, but they're not autocrats. They know that green space (and mixed zoning and high density and...) is a good thing, but they are captive to the whims of politicians and poorly-informed citizens. And property developers have more than enough money to buy policy and sway public opinion. A close relative is a city planner, a job he went into as an idealist. He saw the economic, social, and ecological suffering created by terrible urban design, and he wanted to make a better world. After 30+ years, though, he's jaded and cynical. He's seen historically active flood and landslide and earthquake areas quietly and repeatedly re-zoned for residential development. He's seethed at 40 years of opposition to even modest expansions of mass transit. Suburban sprawl, ghettoization of the poor, retail-only developments... At this point, although he still does his best to advance healthy policy, he's resigned to the fact that the developers always win in the end. So please don't direct your ire at city planners. In many places, they're the only resistance to the boundless greed of property developers. As in all things, it's important to follow the money. The only people getting rich off the status quo are banks and developers.
- nostrademons 9y agoFireflies are interesting - as a New England kid in the 80s, I used to read about them in all sorts of childrens' books, but I was really bummed because I never saw one. I think I saw one firefly in my whole childhood. I just went back to Long Island this summer, and they were all over. It'd get to be twilight and hundreds of them would just be dancing through the air. I got to show my wife the childhood scene that I'd only imagined. Maybe all the fireflies moved from Michigan to New York. I think I'd read somewhere that firefly populations tend to be very cyclical anyway though.
- TallGuyShort 9y agoAttributing this to climate change in it's political context is as ignorant of actual science as what you claim to be detesting.
- nnfy 9y agoSome of the people you go out of your way to slander as both trump supporters and climate change deniers exist as they do because of people like you, who immediately take any adverse global trend, blame it on climate change with what amounts to shakey, correlative evidence, and then shame anyone who dares glance over with a skeptical eye. We are dumping all kinds of chemicals into the environment - pesticides, plasticizers, and a host of bio-active compounds which we already know may be directly responsible for the decline of certain individual species[1]. Climate change is a serious threat. But your post is an example of how climate change has become a highly politicized meme. Next thing you know, it becomes a cultural taboo to be skeptical about climate change, and suddenly we're only asking the questions we are allowed to ask, looking for the data we are allowed to look for, sweeping inconsistencies under the rug, and just generally practicing sloppy science. The scientific method necessitates skepticism. I welcome sources to the contrary, but modern western climate science is void of any published criticism, or at least it was when I had access to journals some 5 years ago. Hell, I couldnt find ONE paper discussing ANY benefit on any place on earth from a warmer climate-which is absurd, because northern permafrost could thaw and create arable land, for example. Climate science has been sickened by politics and political correctness. You should be very wary. 1. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colony_collapse_disorder https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colony_collapse_disorder
- sixothree 9y agoI hate to admit it but whatever the solution to this problem will be, Trump supporters will almost certainly fight against it.
- libraryatnight 9y agoYes, it has nothing to do with anything based in reason or fact it's just heaps and heaps of angry stupid spewed in an attempt to defend their holy tangerine. edit: words.
- smt88 9y agoSaying that science is biased because it fails to see the benefit of global warming is like saying it's biased because it doesn't discuss the benefit of a worldwide plague. Sure, there'd be benefits: fewer lines at amusement parks, all the food you can eat, etc. But that's so far from a net "good" that only a psychopath or moron would publish a paper with that argument.
- musage 9y agoBernie Sanders was swept under the rug for the "benefit" of Hillary Clinton. Trump did nothing in comparison, he simply reaped the fruits of that own goal. Which of course people swiftly pretended didn't happen to complain about Trump, being shocked constantly like some looping meme gif. Instead of using 4 years to clean one's own house, they're working harder to make it dirtier. I say "they" because I don't do the liberal/Democrat/conservative/Republican thing and am not American. So, I can tell you what the result of that will be: even worse stuff. Remember how Obama promised hope & change and removed nothing of what Bush created? But who cared, he wasn't the grating thing Bush was, and congress blocked him, and la di blah. Same shit, same day. As long as it is like this, it will always be the same lame day. Everybody has their scapegoats, nobody executes their "own".
- dawnerd 9y agoI’m seeing a ton of wasps this year too. Also seems like there’s way more spiders in recent years.
- deelowe 9y agoTons of wasps. Wasps everywhere and carpenter bees. It's insane. I don't recall it being like this when I was a kid.
- ashark 9y agoMonarchs used to be a "oh cool, look, it's the 50-100 monarchs in that field which we'll see a couple times a week for the whole season" thing here. Now it's "holy crap, it's our one single monarch butterfly of the year!" thing.
- GlenTheMachine 9y agoThat has a simple explanation, though. Monarch caterpillars can only survive on milkweed, and we've decimated the amount of milkweed around because we see it as, well, a weed.
- frakr 9y agoYou can help out with this by harvesting seeds and planting them all over!
- georgieup 9y agoGood way of earning yourself some enemies.
- winslow 9y agoI've been growing milkweed at my parents house and we saw a around 20 caterpillars this year! Unfortunately, ~1/2 of them didn't make it but we at least start seeing Monarchs again. Everyone should be planting better garden plants that can compared to the bland green bushes and grass that never blooms.
- kafkaesq 9y agoSo basically the planet is starting to treat us as a kind of a ... weed, in return.
- smt88 9y agoThe planet isn't conscious and can't "treat us" as anything. We are doing this to us. We are changing the environment to support short-term wants/needs at the expense of its human habitability in the future.
- MrBuddyCasino 9y agoThis is making the headlines in Germany right now: http://www.zeit.de/wissen/umwelt/2017-10/insektensterben-fluginsekten-gesamtmasse-rueckgang-studie http://www.zeit.de/wissen/umwelt/2017-10/insektensterben-flu... http://www.spiegel.de/wissenschaft/natur/insekten-in-deutschland-forscher-bestaetigen-insektensterben-a-1173525.html http://www.spiegel.de/wissenschaft/natur/insekten-in-deutsch... http://www.sueddeutsche.de/wissen/insektensterben-dramatischer-insektenschwund-in-deutschland-1.3713567 http://www.sueddeutsche.de/wissen/insektensterben-dramatisch... Der Spiegel discusses issues in the methodology of the data collection. The intervals over the years weren't uniform, data was collected by volunteers/hobbyists and they did not measure the dry mass weight. There are differing opinions whether or not those issues have relevance. SZ gives some details on suspected causes. Neither climate change (warmer weather should yield more insects, not less) nor changes in plant diversity can explain the observed effects alone. Main suspects: - agricultural fertilizers, especially nitrogen - pesticides, especially neonicotinoides
- ChuckMcM 9y agoThe massive use of neonicotinoides would not surprise me given the research of its impact on bee colony collapse.
- sogen 9y agoMaybe a side effect of less bees pollination?
- ChuckMcM 9y agoI was listening to an entomologist podcast on colony collapse and they were suggesting that as members of the colony became more and more impaired the interdependency of the various bee groups (workers, foragers, queen) was compromised and then "all of a sudden" the hive was unable to reliably function. And large social group (ants, termites, bees, etc) might be similarly affected.
- sitkack 9y ago
- freeflight 9y ago> On the other hand, some types of beetles, ants, flies, mosquitoes, even wasps - are just new. Afaik most of these are usually invasives species, displacing local populations, which is happening in the weirdest ways and places. In Germany, our local ladybug species are on the verge of going extinct because an imported Asian ladybug species emits some kind of spores killing them, and the Asian ones generally being sturdier. Eastern grey squirrels, brought to the European mainland from the UK, are also increasingly replacing local red squirrels. Red squirrels get through winter by hiding food supplies and staying lean and mean, while grey squirrels build up fat reserves. What ends up happening is that the grey squirrels sniff out the food supplies of the red ones and clear them out to fill up their own fat reserves, that leaves the red squirrels with no food supplies to get through the winter and so they starve. But I agree with your general sentiment, I remember nature being quite a bit "buzzier" when I was a kid, I always thought I felt that way because I might have paid more attention to things like insects as a kid, but I guess my feeling wasn't all that off.
- NegativeLatency 9y agoSame thing happened with the squirrels in the Pacific Northwest. Little red ones replaced by the big grey ones. In more remote places and in the mountains where the winters are harsher you still see the small red native squirrels though.
- kazinator 9y agoAccording to my recollection of the words of a tour guide in Vancouver, Canada, those big, dark squirrels we see around here were brought to Stanley Park from New York. Then they multiplied and kind of outcompeted the small native squirrels. Someone's related blog: https://www.miss604.com/2015/03/grey-squirrels-of-stanley-park.html https://www.miss604.com/2015/03/grey-squirrels-of-stanley-pa... Quote: So how did this squirrel get here just over 100 years ago? Some reports say that the squirrels were a gift from the Mayor of New York City in 1909 but Jolene from Stanley Park History found that in 1909 Vancouver Park Boar Chair, Charles Tisdall, wrote to various American cities in search of purchasing “grey squirrels” for Stanley Park.
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- jxramos 9y agoI was wondering about my experiences of not seeing bugs I'd see as a kid. Not sure if I just didn't go hunting like I used to or if there was an absolute decrease. I remember spotting these many times and catching a few http://www.mappingmegan.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/1-90-Yellow-Garden-Orb-Weaver.jpg http://www.mappingmegan.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/1-90-..., now I mainly see their hairier cousins http://www.suttonmass.org/animals/spiders/orbweavercrucifera/ http://www.suttonmass.org/animals/spiders/orbweavercrucifera... Various little butterflies would be abundant seem much less now. I wish I knew their names.
- timthelion 9y agoI never read "silent spring", but the title has stuck with me since childhood. Perhaps I'll read it now.
- avodonosov 9y agoButterflies - exactly the example I wanted to mention too. In childhood I saw them often, now - very rarely.
- throwme211345 9y agoA field of butterflies in the cow pasture feeding on manure. Pure joy. Rarely seen now, more the lone floater on the wind.
- refurb 9y agoDon't different species normally wax and wane in prevalence? And enter/leave areas? A particularly cold winter can kill off a certain type of insect and the loss lasts for year. How can we determine how much of the change we even have control over?
- codefined 9y agoWhen 75% of _all_ flying insect biomass is lost, that's not just wax / wane. Considering the only difference in the past 2 years vs. the other thousands of years that insects have survived is human intereference, doesn't this suggest that we have complete control over this change?
- christophilus 9y agoThis year, I left a portion of my lawn unmowed. I seeded it with a $10 bag of wildflower seeds. It's given me 4 months of beautiful flowers, loads of polinators, many butterflies, and it's given me less yard to mow. I now think that lawns of neatly trimmed grass are about as dumb as it gets.
- irrlichthn 9y agoHa, did exactly the same thing, since I noticed nearly no bees or other insects last year. I dedictated around 200 m² of my lawn to nature. I think it helped: This year, there where so much more of them to see.
- downer71 9y agoAren’t there local ordinances in some jurisdictions, requiring an orderly yard about the house? For sure, in many places there are laws regulating tree count and what you can and can’t chop down. I swear I’ve heard of fines for unmowed lawns too.
- sulam 9y agoHOAs, township laws, etc — it is somewhat common in the US to be unable to do anything but grow grass in your front yard. We took advantage of the CA drought and tore out all our grass in front and replaced it with drought tolerant natives. It looks better and the kids didn’t play there anyway. And now we have monarchs.
- dsfyu404ed 9y ago>somewhat common in the US in the parts of the US that are over-represented on HN FTFY.
- Bartweiss 9y ago21% of all Americans live in common-interest housing. Half of that is condominiums, half is HOA-governed housing. It's a safe bet that large portions of that heavily restrict lawn conditions. Add in another ~10% of the country living in multi-family apartment buildings, which usually have no lawns or owner-controlled lawns. And, of course, single-family home lawns in any densely populated area are likely to be regulated, many of which aren't high income. I can't get numbers on how many of those ~70% of Americans are under town restrictions, but it's not a trivial number. So no, it's not just HN's demographics. This is genuinely widespread in the US; I'd estimate that at least 100,000,000 Americans live under some form of these restrictions. https://www.caionline.org/AboutCommunityAssociations/Pages/StatisticalInformation.aspx https://www.caionline.org/AboutCommunityAssociations/Pages/S... http://www.builderonline.com/money/economics/80-percent-of-americans-prefer-single-family-homeownership_o http://www.builderonline.com/money/economics/80-percent-of-a...
- frik 9y agoIsn't it well understood that Monsanto with its gen manipulated crap is very bad for humans and animals (like bees). "EU report on weedkiller safety copied text from Monsanto study" https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/sep/15/eu-report-on-weedkiller-safety-copied-text-from-monsanto-study https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/sep/15/eu-repor...
- jimmies 9y agoI am Vietnamese. There was a mythically rare oil called 'ca cuong' that not many have experienced in their life but was mentioned enough times in traditional folklore and old-timey food novels. The oil is from a little cockroach-like insect that has a liquid producing sac in their body. They live in rice fields that span across the north of Vietnam. It was believed you have to catch hundreds of them to harvest those little sacs just to have just a raw drop. So ten years ago when I was 20, I had the chance to go with my rich old friend-boss to a relatively high-end restaurant. He called a noodle dish -- I have eaten the same dish -- that cold noodle with shrimp paste (which smells pungent but tastes good) -- for hundreds of times in my life and I didn't expect anything different. But before we started, the waitress brought up a bottle that has a small pipette and dropped a little drop to the paste. The aroma was warm and fuzzy like how you would think of the cinnamon apple juice for a cold day. When I tasted the same dish, it tasted so warm, so rich, and so aromatic. But that's about as good as words get because it was unlike anything I have had in my life. It transformed the dish and my experience to another level of existence. It was that little bug that made me appreciate the food, my life, and the little heritage in the little country, where, honestly, not a lot of things really made sense. But definitely, that little drop of oil does make a lot of sense. Fast forward one year ago, life has been so much easier to me. Food is abundant, but I sometimes miss that little dish. I asked my parents if they could get some of the ca cuong oil to me, even if it's expensive (as it always has been believed). They tried then replied that they couldn't source the oil, no one sells it. Further researching revealed to me that the little insect has gone practically extinct and it is now illegal to catch them. I want to believe that it wasn't me that contributed to it, but maybe I did. It was more widely believed, however, that the widespread use of pesticide and insect-resistant rice has pushed the little insect to extinction in just a matter of 10-15 years. The day I figured that out, I feel died a little bit inside. I feel something was lost when I, and many people around me, was busy pursuing. I am now doing work that has a lot to do with biology, and I go to talks of people having that little spiel with how our challenge for the 8-billion people world is food security. I heard PhD students and faculty talking about how great is insect-resistant plants. The scientists in large agree with the assertion that GMOs aren't harmful. My friends would go great lengths to defend GMOs on their blogs and facebook statuses. They are all hardcore, hardworking, real scientists with good intents. I tend to believe smart people meant goodwill. Still, the world marches forward for whatever it marches forward for, little insects that eat human's food be damned.
- baxtr 9y agoOnce we are gone, they’ll all come back: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/23/wildlife-returns-to-radioactive-wasteland-of-chernobyl/ http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/23/wildlife-returns-...
- atomical 9y agoI'll respond with my ancedotal experience as well. I live on a farm and the bugs are irritating as ever. There is a lot of pesticide used around here and I have used pesticide as well on the lawn. It hasn't decreased the number of bugs.
- adriand 9y agoI totally agree with the anecdotal perceptions around the decrease in insects since childhood. In my case, what I noticed recently was how few times my children have been stung by bees/wasps at their current ages, compared to how many times I was stung at those ages. My seven-year-old daughter has never been stung. My ten-year-old son claims he was stung once, but I'm not sure I believe him. By the time I was ten years old, I had been stung at least a dozen times. (I can still remember some of the particular stings, just due to the severity of the swelling.) This strikes me as odd, and in the context of this paper, frightening.
- Chris2048 9y agoDid you spend more time outdoors, or in woodlands?
- jly 9y agoInvertebrates often get overlooked for conservation efforts and money spent, in favor of larger animals. Pollinators are critically important for their direct food supply services, but we really just don't know the full ecological impact down the road of mass species loss on a scale we could be heading towards with many other species of insects, other arthropods, molluscs, coral, etc. If you're in the US, we have a great conservation organization for invertebrates that is doing great work on both habitat revival and pesticide reduction, and receives not nearly enough donations: https://xerces.org/ https://xerces.org/
- Shivetya 9y agowell for few years we had a severe reduction of monarchs and (blue/black variety whose name escapes me) in NW metro Atlanta but they returned this year in large numbers. Also returning, not sure of exact connection, but the tent caterpillars were abundant after seemingly being gone.