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Alphabet's Sidewalk Labs to turn 800 acres of Toronto into an “internet city”
- bogomipz 9y ago>"So what would a city designed by Google look like? It would likely include features such as LinkNYC, the public Wi-Fi hubs installed around New York City." Make not mistake about it the LinkNYC "kiosks" are digital billboards that give allow Google to flash ads at residents on every block. I haven't seen anyone engaging with these "kisoks" for any kind of informational purposes. On rare occasions I have seen someone using them to charge their USB device.
- rememberlenny 9y agoThe more interesting aspect are the always on cameras that are built into each billboard. The data being collected and analyzed across a city over time must be generating very valuable data.
- Gaelan 9y agoHas LinkNYC responded to this? It seems at least plausible that some feature of the devices (video chat?) requires a camera. Do we know that the cameras are always-on? Edit: https://www.link.nyc/faq.html#cameras https://www.link.nyc/faq.html#cameras Looks like it’s not completely unreasonable—they’re not doing straight-up tracking, and wanting to figure out who damaged your expensive machine is a reasonable goal. However, this still (I think) allows tracking anybody they claim is dangerous or a criminal. Better, but far from good.
- dublinben 9y agoFor more information, please see here: https://cryptome.org/2016/06/linknyc-spy-kiosks-installation-videos.htm https://cryptome.org/2016/06/linknyc-spy-kiosks-installation...
- vm 9y agoReminds me of eye-scan advertising in Minority Report: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bXJ_obaiYQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bXJ_obaiYQ
- btown 9y agoRelevant: https://www.bestvpn.com/privacy-news/widespread-facial-recognition/ https://www.bestvpn.com/privacy-news/widespread-facial-recog...
- KGIII 9y agoGood. I'm not the only one. My first thought wasn't about how interesting or cool this could be. My first thought was that this was a blow to privacy.
- ihodes 9y agoAlso seems like a useful captive waypoint to monitor MAC addresses & movement across a city.
- IshKebab 9y agoModern smartphones randomised their Bluetooth MACs. I'm not sure about WiFi. But anyway if you wanted to track people's movement it's easier to do it via the cell network, or... Google Maps.
- saool 9y agoNot just MACs... here's a talk on the subject: https://livestream.com/internetsociety/hopeconf/videos/130816888 https://livestream.com/internetsociety/hopeconf/videos/13081...
- reggieband 9y agoI appreciate my own experience is only anecdotal evidence but I see people using them all the time. It is mostly homeless people who use it to make phone calls but I've often seen people charging devices. They used to be used a lot more but I heard they started blocking video so the homeless couldn't use it to watch inappropriate content.
- jessriedel 9y ago> I appreciate my own experience is only anecdotal evidence but I see people using them all the time. It is mostly homeless people who use it to make phone calls but I've often seen people charging devices. So a free VOIP phone and a USB charger? This strikes me as a failure to live up to their stated capabilities.
- reggieband 9y agoI believe they also provide free wifi. That is harder to quantify since you don't have to be directly adjacent to the kiosk to use it. I'm just countering the initial claim that one person never sees anyone using it. At least in my neighborhood, especially along my walk to work, I see people physically interacting with the devices very frequently.
- bogomipz 9y agoSure but this isn't really additive since New York City already has WIFI around all subway stations. See: https://transitwireless.com/ https://transitwireless.com/ https://www.theverge.com/2016/1/8/10737408/nyc-mta-subway-wifi-mobile-payment-cuomo https://www.theverge.com/2016/1/8/10737408/nyc-mta-subway-wi... And that Transit Wireless WIFI is not paid for with advertising blight. So really the net utility added for all of this advertising is is a USB charging station. You could always make 911 calls at the phone kiosks these replaced.
- arkades 9y ago> mostly homeless people who use it to make phone calls > blocking video so the homeless couldn't [watch porn] The latter is what I used to see them used for. I've rarely seen them used since the video block went in.
- jasoncartwright 9y agoThe free wifi is useful as a tourist. The surprising amount of them in Manhattan means you don't need to use relatively expensive roaming data as often. Once you've pressed the required buttons on the captive portal your phone just connects and sorts out your email & notifications as you stroll near one.
- bogomipz 9y agoI'm not disputing the utility of free WIFI and while that might be great for the tourist who visits NYC the residents have to live with advertising blight.
- illamint 9y agoYou can use the WiFi on these things from a surprising distance (hundreds of feet) with a proper antenna. Even with an IPSEC tunnel in place, one can achieve a connection with over 100Mbps upload and download with 5ms latency. That's much better than what most ISPs in NYC provide. And it's free. So, there's that.
- dragonwriter 9y ago> I haven't seen anyone engaging with these "kisoks" for any kind of informational purposes. How do you see how people are using a public WiFi hub at all? Are you intercepting and inspection traffic?
- bogomipz 9y agoEngaging physically with the Kiosk which is ostensibly what you are supposed to do as there is a screen, camera and keypad on the front of each one. If the main purpose is/was just to provide WIFI there would be need to up multiple kiosks on the block.
- dragonwriter 9y agoSince there is also a WiFi hub, engaging wirelessly is evidently also something “you are supposed to do”, and presumably moreso than physical interaction as the number of supported simultaneous physical interactors is much lower than the supported simultaneous wireless connections.
- bogomipz 9y agoThen there is no need for a 10 feet high dual sided digital billboard controlled by Google to accomplish that. Have you actually seen one of these in person? I can assure you they are not unobtrusive. This pic gives some idea of the scale of these: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LinkNYC#/media/File:EHB_1773_(25539831295).jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LinkNYC#/media/File:EHB_1773_(...
- jpindar 9y agoYou choose to live in the big city and advertising signs bother you? That's like choosing to live in the forest and saying trees bother you.
- bogomipz 9y agoNice strawman. So if unpleasant elements exist in one's environment, a dramatic increase in those unpleasant elements shouldn't bother you? Yeah that makes a lot of sense. Also nowhere did I say I lived there.
- ng12 9y ago> I haven't seen anyone engaging with these "kisoks" for any kind of informational purposes. On rare occasions I have seen someone using them to charge their USB device. I think they have the opposite problem -- people who camp out at the kiosk literally all day for the free charging/internet.
- chollida1 9y agoTo be followed shortly by amazon's second head quarters:) I didn't see the link posted but this is probably a better link.... https://sidewalktoronto.ca/ https://sidewalktoronto.ca/ Toronto is a funny city. Most cities play up their coast line, Toronto gets scummier as you move towards the water, though they are addressing it and its improved a lot over the past 10 years with the condo boom. I really hope they can do something productive with the land because right now its a big eye sore and its a prime location right in the heart of the city.
- oneplusone 9y agoThe Port Lands have already been extensively studied and a lot of planning has gone into it. There is a pretty extensive report that is a pretty fun read/scan. This would be the plan that Google would have to integrate into. http://www.waterfrontoronto.ca/nbe/wcm/connect/waterfront/97811a5f-e98b-4216-a84c-df454f876065/Port+Lands+Planning+Framework_AODA+-+reduced.pdf?MOD=AJPERES&CONVERT_TO=url&CACHEID=97811a5f-e98b-4216-a84c-df454f876065 http://www.waterfrontoronto.ca/nbe/wcm/connect/waterfront/97... (pdf)
- algaexe 9y agoI've lived in Toronto for a while and Queen's Quay is lined with expensive condos and corporate skyscrapers. I don't really understand what you mean by scummy. Do you mean the port lands? There's nothing wrong with that area. It was built for industrial shipping. The only eyesore in that area (Rebel) opened up no more than 3 years ago. If you mean Lakeshore, those tent cities under the Gardiner are recently established as well. Take a water taxi over to Hanlan's before Winter rolls around. It'll change your perspective. We have a beautiful city.
- mikepurvis 9y agoIt's nothing compared to the Vancouver waterfront, though, with the park, seawall, convention centre, floatplanes, and everything else.
- microcolonel 9y ago
- Animats 9y agoDon't forget that Google made similar claims for Google Fiber back in 2012.[1] And Google WiFi in 2006.[2] [1] http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-17081508 http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-17081508 [2] https://gizmodo.com/mountain-view-is-installing-wi-fi-because-googles-free-1442975805 https://gizmodo.com/mountain-view-is-installing-wi-fi-becaus...
- icebraining 9y agoI don't see any claims made by Google in that first piece, every interviewee seem to be unrelated to them.
- Animats 9y ago"Unite this region with a common thread", "Next big thing". Google ad for Kansas City fiber installation, 2011.[1] [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmSuNyOpsXU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmSuNyOpsXU
- wmccullough 9y agoThis is loose at best. Right up there with “creates full voluminous hair, whitens teeth and strengthens enamel, and corn syrup is the same as sugar”
- tziki 9y agoThis seems not similar at all.
- zitterbewegung 9y agoAnd then in a year or two they will close down Sidewalk Labs and their services will be in maintenance mode.
- stuffedBelly 9y agoaha, what's Google's robotics division called again?
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- serhei 9y agoDon't worry, those buildings can always be repurposed as condominiums. Unless the housing bubble implodes in which case Toronto has bigger problems.
- bogomipz 9y ago>"Sidewalk Labs, the smart city subsidiary of Alphabet with the stated goal of “reimagining cities from the Internet up,” now has a very big sandbox in which to conduct its high-tech experiments." This is some of the "reimagining" and type of "experiments" Toronto residents can look forward to: http://observer.com/2017/06/new-belgium-intersection-link-nyc-voodoo-ranger/ http://observer.com/2017/06/new-belgium-intersection-link-ny...
- goatforce5 9y agoWaterfront Toronto, the agency that Alphabet is partnering with, is also responsible for the redevelopment of the Canary District (which is immediately to the north of the area that Google has just got involved with). When they launched they put out some press releases about how the Canary District was going to have free neighbourhood wifi and other fancy things. As far as I can tell, that never happened, yet they won an award for it being an "intelligent community". > Even as the network is being built out, it’s already winning accolades. Last year it helped the City of Toronto earn the title of the world’s No. 1 Intelligent Community of the Year as chosen by the Intelligent Community Forum in New York. Anyone have details? http://nationalpost.com/life/homes/full-speed-ahead-torontos-new-waterfront-communities-get-really-wired-up http://nationalpost.com/life/homes/full-speed-ahead-torontos...
- WrkInProgress 9y agoWell they did bring fibre to the two existing developments in the Canary District. And for a far better price than than Canadians are used to with the big 3. I don't really see a lot of innovation, they were just able to sign a 10 year contract with Beanfield. The Canary District is far from finished, so perhaps some of that infrastructure will be built out when it is completed. Also, a lot of the developments they mentioned have yet to be completed (Monde, Waterfront Innovation Centre, Tridel's Aqualina/Aquavista) and aren't even in the "Canary District". One of these just started occupancy.
- cal5k 9y agoI'm in the Merchandise building, and we have Beanfield too. So I'm not sure what's so special about that.
- pj_mukh 9y agoIt speaks to Canada's exorbitant LTE data prices that just putting Wifi "everywhere" is what is required to make a dent in mobile/community connectivity.
- rglover 9y agoDetroit 2.
- salqadri 9y agoThis reminds me of Google's efforts to reduce harmful mosquitos in Fresno, CA by introducing millions of sterile mosquitos (http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/07/21/538470321/to-shrink-the-mosquito-population-scientists-are-releasing-20-million-of-them http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/07/21/538470321/...). I visited Fresno last month, and Fresnonians seem generally very annoyed at the insane amount of Google mosquitos in the city now but remain hopeful that this will be better for them in the long-haul.
- ehsankia 9y agoIt seems like the residents don't really know what's going on and their experiences are biased by what they think is going on. Google targeted a very specific specie of mosquito, which population-wise is probably insignificant in the perceivable number of mosquito you would notice. Aedes aegypti is a specie which generally lives in tropic environment, but was brought over accidentally. The musquitos released are also male and do not bite.
- bitmapbrother 9y agoMale mosquitoes feed on flower nectar and don't bite so I'm not sure why you would think residents would be annoyed at the "Google mosquitos" unless they like to spread nectar on themselves.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- plumeria 9y agoIs the underground network of autonomous vehicles for deliveries and waste management just a sketch or actually in the works? [1] [1] https://www.sidewalklabs.com/assets/uploads/2016/10/171012_Sustainability.png https://www.sidewalklabs.com/assets/uploads/2016/10/171012_S...
- serhei 9y agoI'm more concerned about whether the streetcar running on top of there will ever be more than just a sketch. An extension of the streetcar network in that direction has been proposed, canceled, procrastinated, debated for years but nothing actually happening so far.
- megy 9y agoHopefully there isn't so many damn roads and highway, something that Toronto doesn't need more of.