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It must be said that corruption of the sort alleged at Airbus has become rather rare. The US' Foreign Corrupt Practices Act[0] has, for example, done wonders.

It must be said that corruption of the sort alleged at Airbus has become rather rare. The US' Foreign Corrupt Practices Act[0] has, for example, done wonders. The US had decided that it wouldn't allow its domestic companies to bribe foreign officials. And because they were (legitimately) afraid of losing business to countries with lax standards, they expanded its power to foreign companies. Until the late 90s, for example, most European countries allowed the tax deduction of foreign bribes. Yeah, it wasn't just legal, but tax-supported. That changed dramatically with the FCPA, and actions such as Airbus' are now the exception rather than the norm. It's similar in politics, where I think people vastly overestimate the number of money-filled suitcases changing hands. The problem today is a different form of political corruption, namely that which has been legalised by Citizens United. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Corrupt_Practices_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Corrupt_Practices_Act

wallace_f 9y ago
>The US' Foreign Corrupt Practices Act[0] has, for example, done wonders >Until the late 90s, for example, most European countries allowed the tax deduction of foreign bribes Very fair points However, what I would say is that without perverse incentives, the only thing between humanity and solving all of these problems, is incompetence. I think that for the most part, these people do know what they're doing. Also, you are right only so far that ostensibly this sort of corruption is rare. You don't hear about the people who were not caught. Just look at what is coming out of hollywood, and how long that took to come out, and yes there were figurative brief cases filled with money, one of them even discovered(1). 1-www.vulture.com/2017/10/harvey-weinstein-lawyer-david-boies-money-to-da-after-dropped-assault-case.html
charlesdm 9y ago
Not sure I believe that, but it might have. It seems these companies are mostly using middle men now, for example, see Unaoil: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unaoil https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unaoil. I'm not pro corruption, but I'm also aware that in many parts of the world, if you want to operate in a certain market, there will always be a need for some "greasing of the wheels". I would assume that, as a country develops and grows, the amount of corruption will generally naturally decline.
- coupdetaco 9y ago
  Greasing of wheels is actually permitted for ordinary affairs
  - charlesdm 9y ago
    Under US law? So you can bribe someone to get a construction or operating permit, but not to acquire a $100m property development project? That's a bit hypocritical no?
    - shub 9y ago
      Iit's specifically minor bribes required to get anything done even if you comply with the law. Bribing a building inspector to overlook safety problems, that's an FCPA violation. Tipping him $20 to thank him for his hard work on verifying your construction's code compliance, not a problem. The text is so: > Subsections (a) and (g) of this section shall not apply to any facilitating or expediting payment to a foreign official, political party, or party official the purpose of which is to expedite or to secure the performance of a routine governmental action by a foreign official, political party, or party official.
  - KGIII 9y ago
    On my own continent, North America, showing 'documentaçion' (paying a small bribe) is customary and not considered abnormal. I enjoy spending time in Latin America and, truth be told, the system works. As a foreigner, I'm expected to pay more but the price isn't that much. If I were doing something illegal, I'd pay even more. It doesn't even always have to be currency. Outside of the tourist areas, the policia may very well have a checkpoint before you enter a region. Cold beer is always welcome, as is soda. Etc... That's right here on my continent. You can find that just driving outside the tourist areas of Mexico. There's some effort to make it look official, but you can hand them a magazine with $5 - $20 in it, and they will slip it into their pocket, flip through the magazine, and wave you through. If you use a porno magazine, they may just keep it.
    - 9y ago
seanmcdirmid 9y ago
Working in china, we were made clearly aware of the FCPA (it applies to individuals also), and we had to change our businesses practices multiple times to stay in compliance. We couldn't even buy a grad student lunch without a lot of paper work because of their government connection. I felt like there was still bribing going on but it was very very indirect. For example, some things like the government making us buy security from particular firms seemed like a legalized bribe as the security guards never actually did anything.

wallace_f 9y ago

>The US' Foreign Corrupt Practices Act[0] has, for example, done wonders >Until the late 90s, for example, most European countries allowed the tax deduction of foreign bribes Very fair points However, what I would say is that without perverse incentives, the only thing between humanity and solving all of these problems, is incompetence. I think that for the most part, these people do know what they're doing. Also, you are right only so far that ostensibly this sort of corruption is rare. You don't hear about the people who were not caught. Just look at what is coming out of hollywood, and how long that took to come out, and yes there were figurative brief cases filled with money, one of them even discovered(1). 1-www.vulture.com/2017/10/harvey-weinstein-lawyer-david-boies-money-to-da-after-dropped-assault-case.html

charlesdm 9y ago

Not sure I believe that, but it might have. It seems these companies are mostly using middle men now, for example, see Unaoil: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unaoil https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unaoil. I'm not pro corruption, but I'm also aware that in many parts of the world, if you want to operate in a certain market, there will always be a need for some "greasing of the wheels". I would assume that, as a country develops and grows, the amount of corruption will generally naturally decline.

coupdetaco 9y ago
Greasing of wheels is actually permitted for ordinary affairs
- charlesdm 9y ago
  Under US law? So you can bribe someone to get a construction or operating permit, but not to acquire a $100m property development project? That's a bit hypocritical no?
  - shub 9y ago
    Iit's specifically minor bribes required to get anything done even if you comply with the law. Bribing a building inspector to overlook safety problems, that's an FCPA violation. Tipping him $20 to thank him for his hard work on verifying your construction's code compliance, not a problem. The text is so: > Subsections (a) and (g) of this section shall not apply to any facilitating or expediting payment to a foreign official, political party, or party official the purpose of which is to expedite or to secure the performance of a routine governmental action by a foreign official, political party, or party official.
- KGIII 9y ago
  On my own continent, North America, showing 'documentaçion' (paying a small bribe) is customary and not considered abnormal. I enjoy spending time in Latin America and, truth be told, the system works. As a foreigner, I'm expected to pay more but the price isn't that much. If I were doing something illegal, I'd pay even more. It doesn't even always have to be currency. Outside of the tourist areas, the policia may very well have a checkpoint before you enter a region. Cold beer is always welcome, as is soda. Etc... That's right here on my continent. You can find that just driving outside the tourist areas of Mexico. There's some effort to make it look official, but you can hand them a magazine with $5 - $20 in it, and they will slip it into their pocket, flip through the magazine, and wave you through. If you use a porno magazine, they may just keep it.
  - 9y ago

seanmcdirmid 9y ago

Working in china, we were made clearly aware of the FCPA (it applies to individuals also), and we had to change our businesses practices multiple times to stay in compliance. We couldn't even buy a grad student lunch without a lot of paper work because of their government connection. I felt like there was still bribing going on but it was very very indirect. For example, some things like the government making us buy security from particular firms seemed like a legalized bribe as the security guards never actually did anything.