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Can someone explain to me why Xi is considered to have "consolidated his grasp"? This seems to be a well accepted idea but I don't see what substantiates that.

by Iv 9y ago

Can someone explain to me why Xi is considered to have "consolidated his grasp"? This seems to be a well accepted idea but I don't see what substantiates that. He starts his second term as prime minister of China, and serving two terms has been the norm in recent times. I did not remark China becoming more authoritarian under his rule. I do not see indications that he may stay after 2022, his scheduled depart. What did I miss?

aaron-lebo 9y ago
Political observers have called Xi "the most powerful Chinese leader since Deng Xiaoping."[84] Xi has notably departed from the "collective rule" practices of his predecessor Hu Jintao. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xi_Jinping#Consolidation_of_power https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xi_Jinping#Consolidation_of_po... The entire article is a good read, it's amazing how much power he has.
wisty 9y ago
His anti-corruption campaign is the main one. There's a focus on "tigers" and "flies" - high profile targets and a general clean-up of low-level corruption. It seems like quite a lot of the "tigers" were opponents of Xi. Also, he gets compared to his immediate predecessor (Hu) who was was very bland and worked more on a consensus model.
- Iv 9y ago
  But his anti-corruption campaign really looked like an anti-corruption campaign. I understand that they can be used as power tools but what are the elements to believe this is the case presently?
  - justicezyx 9y ago
    People never fight for the fighting's sake, they fight for profit, all sorts of profit. Why Xi wants to put down the tigers and flys? It's because those are in his way to achieve his idea of "revitalize the Chinese nation". Because those people are having different ideas on how to do the same thing, or entirely having a different purpose. Conveniently, it's always been true that absolute power comes with absolute corruption. That has never been more true since the economic take-off of China. And anti-corruption has always been the most effective weapon to put down powerful people.
    - Iv 9y ago
      So basically, you are assuming the conclusion.
      - justicezyx 9y ago
        What conclusion? What I was saying is that anti-corruption always will be the most effective weapon to take down powerful people in China, because of its political structure. It does not matter if the motivation is to save the economy, or whatever, there isn't much sense to guess the motivation of political activities, which always have very complex combination and reasoning can change with different angles.
  - Feniks 9y ago
    I think he's genuine. Corruption is rotting the Communist Party inside and hurting China. And for all their faults Chinese politicians are nationalist.
richsinn 9y ago
Exactly. Check this article out: "Xi Jinping May Be Less Powerful Than He Seems" ( https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/04/xi-jinping-china-trump-ccp-pla/522057/ https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/04/xi... ) The fact of the matter is that the outside world knows very little about the inner workings at the top of the Communist Party in China.
- Iv 9y ago
  As a foreigner this feels a bit like a US' reaction about their loss of leadership. There has to be something wrong about China's rise. Imagining that it will surpass their own economic power through good management by a central government is something they just refuse to accept. It has to be some authoritarian cheat mode.
  - forapurpose 9y ago
    Hmmm ... that's pretty speculative, or really completely speculative. This movie has been made before. The USSR claimed something similar. Now of course, China's aggregate economy could match the U.S.'s when its citizens are only 25% as wealthy, but that is not a sign of great economic performance. > good management by a central government I think you mean by an undemocratic authoritarian government (I don't think centrality is the issue). Regardless, I don't see good management, mostly effective suppression and international propaganda. If management is so great, why do they need to censor and propagandize their own citizens on a massive scale, not to mention outlawing dissent and imprisoning dissenters? Who needs the 'Great Firewll', in that case. I don't think people in Tibet, Hong Kong, Taiwan, or Xinjian would say China is so well managed, as obvious examples.
    - alphaalpha101 9y ago
      >China's aggregate economy could match the U.S.'s when its citizens are only 25% as wealthy GDP per capita is a terrible measure of citizen wealth. A country could have a much lower GDP per capita than the US and still have a MUCH more wealthier median citizen.
    - 9y ago
seanmcdirmid 9y ago
He isn't prime minister, but party secretary and president. Li Keqiang is premier, the closest thing to a PM, but not as powerful as a party secretary (the president position is ceremonial). Hu Jintao served two terms as party secretary, but never consolidated his power base (Jiang Zemin protruded a lot into his reign), so was not very powerful, even compared to his premier (wen jiabao). Xi, on the other hand, has completely consolidated his power base and sidelined Li Keqiang. His competitors and apparent successors have been hit up on corruption (they are all corrupt, but who gets prosecuted depends on power plays). If his successor (maybe another Hu) isn't apparent at this congress, then there will be a lot of talk of him staying passed his terms. If the successor is named, which is probable, then that talk will stop. However, he could totally pull a Jiang Zemin and retain some powerful poets (e.g. Head of the military commission) to keep more influence afterward. But in reality, all the retired leaders retain power behind the scenes, and it's just a matter of how much (him putting his protégés in power and kicking out Hu's will help a lot).
projectant 9y ago
- Accumulation of many titles, not always held by the General Secretary. Sometimes this is Xi gaining a title of an already existing leadership group, sometimes he has created new groups, such as the "Central Commission for Integrated Military and Civilian Development" ( which is about funding military industries, sort of like the US military-industrial model ). Titles like this mean he has effective policy control over many branches of China's administration. His ability to create new groups shows his ability to reform the bureaucratic hierarchy. - Anti corruption campaign, restore legitimacy in party with regard to people's opinions, level some playing fields, purge the party of corruption and also strengthen ideological and political support for Xi. - Xi has been called "The Core", this term was only ever used for Mao and Deng. - Anti-corruption has also focused on military. Result seems to be Xi has greater control of and greater loyalty from the military. - The PLA garrison in HK broke tradition this year to address Xi as "Chairman", instead of "Commander" --a first. Perhaps this reflects that while usually the leader also Chairs the Central Military Commission, as Xi does, Xi's power is less figurehead and more effective. - Xi has achieved many things internationally that have not been done by China ever: first overseas military base, in Africa; taking control of disputed islands in its coastal waters in defiance of neighbours; creation of the ambitious, "One Belt One Road", infrastructure, trade and investment project, to expand China's influence along a "new silk road" Westward; and exercised tighter control over old and new media, with very effective online censorship. - In summary, he does a lot, has made many changes, is always in the news cycle as an effective leader, and has presided over a very successful period for China both with regard to domestic growth and stability, and international standing and ambitious expansion.
forapurpose 9y ago
> I did not remark China becoming more authoritarian under his rule. Xi greatly suppressed political dissent, online and off. There was a burgeoning, very interesting online debate about democracy and governance, full of thoughtful ideas, brilliant satire, and more. AFAIK, that's mostly gone. You can read about it here: http://chinadigitaltimes.net/ http://chinadigitaltimes.net/ He also arrested and otherwise suppressed many political opponents, at least in large part under the guise of an 'anti-corruption' campaign. He's also revived Communist ideology and a Mao-ish cult of personality for himself. In contrast, Deng Xiaopeng avoided it - my understanding is that he even was cremated and had his ashes scattered at sea so there would be no shrine to him. Finally, he has helped create an intense wave of nationalism. (I will say, in fairness, that cults of personality and nationalism are trendy in other countries too, such as the U.S. I don't know how everyone forgot the evil that those things lead to.)
- Iv 9y ago
  > Xi greatly suppressed political dissent, online and off. But was that different from his predecessors? > He also arrested and otherwise suppressed many political opponents, at least in large part under the guise of an 'anti-corruption' campaign. That I would like to know more about. Most of the times, people just quote Bo Xilai (who seem to have been a genuinel crime ring boss) and his successor. I have a hard time understanding why the official version is just dismissed. > and a Mao-ish cult of personality for himself. Is there a place to read about that?
  - forapurpose 9y ago
    >> Xi greatly suppressed political dissent, online and off. > But was that different from his predecessors? Yes; I meant to say he greatly increased suppression of dissent > Is there a place to read about that? I'd start with the link above. The NY Times covers it occasionally, including a recent story about Xi's childhood home (AFAICT - I didn't read much more than a paragraph).
gbog 9y ago
It's a good idea to question assumptions. And to me living in China since Hu, the main difference is that Chinese people themselves perceive Xi as much stronger than his predecessors, and probably rightly so: the crackdown on corruption is no joke, I have relatives who gave back their German cars to avoid issues. Also people of the diaspora or in Taiwan follow closely the tiger hunt at the head of the state and it seems to not be nowhere like catching butterflies. So yes Xi has earned a reputation.
woodandsteel 9y ago
One way he is more powerful is he has greatly restricted freedom of press and internet discussion, and use this to halt criticism of the regime and the opportunity for any organized opposition to arise. Nowadays people rarely say in public anything except what the regime wants it to say.

by Iv 9y ago

aaron-lebo 9y ago

Political observers have called Xi "the most powerful Chinese leader since Deng Xiaoping."[84] Xi has notably departed from the "collective rule" practices of his predecessor Hu Jintao. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xi_Jinping#Consolidation_of_power https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xi_Jinping#Consolidation_of_po... The entire article is a good read, it's amazing how much power he has.

wisty 9y ago

His anti-corruption campaign is the main one. There's a focus on "tigers" and "flies" - high profile targets and a general clean-up of low-level corruption. It seems like quite a lot of the "tigers" were opponents of Xi. Also, he gets compared to his immediate predecessor (Hu) who was was very bland and worked more on a consensus model.

Iv 9y ago
But his anti-corruption campaign really looked like an anti-corruption campaign. I understand that they can be used as power tools but what are the elements to believe this is the case presently?
- justicezyx 9y ago
  People never fight for the fighting's sake, they fight for profit, all sorts of profit. Why Xi wants to put down the tigers and flys? It's because those are in his way to achieve his idea of "revitalize the Chinese nation". Because those people are having different ideas on how to do the same thing, or entirely having a different purpose. Conveniently, it's always been true that absolute power comes with absolute corruption. That has never been more true since the economic take-off of China. And anti-corruption has always been the most effective weapon to put down powerful people.
  - Iv 9y ago
    So basically, you are assuming the conclusion.
    - justicezyx 9y ago
      What conclusion? What I was saying is that anti-corruption always will be the most effective weapon to take down powerful people in China, because of its political structure. It does not matter if the motivation is to save the economy, or whatever, there isn't much sense to guess the motivation of political activities, which always have very complex combination and reasoning can change with different angles.
- Feniks 9y ago
  I think he's genuine. Corruption is rotting the Communist Party inside and hurting China. And for all their faults Chinese politicians are nationalist.

richsinn 9y ago

Exactly. Check this article out: "Xi Jinping May Be Less Powerful Than He Seems" ( https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/04/xi-jinping-china-trump-ccp-pla/522057/ https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/04/xi... ) The fact of the matter is that the outside world knows very little about the inner workings at the top of the Communist Party in China.

Iv 9y ago
As a foreigner this feels a bit like a US' reaction about their loss of leadership. There has to be something wrong about China's rise. Imagining that it will surpass their own economic power through good management by a central government is something they just refuse to accept. It has to be some authoritarian cheat mode.
- forapurpose 9y ago
  Hmmm ... that's pretty speculative, or really completely speculative. This movie has been made before. The USSR claimed something similar. Now of course, China's aggregate economy could match the U.S.'s when its citizens are only 25% as wealthy, but that is not a sign of great economic performance. > good management by a central government I think you mean by an undemocratic authoritarian government (I don't think centrality is the issue). Regardless, I don't see good management, mostly effective suppression and international propaganda. If management is so great, why do they need to censor and propagandize their own citizens on a massive scale, not to mention outlawing dissent and imprisoning dissenters? Who needs the 'Great Firewll', in that case. I don't think people in Tibet, Hong Kong, Taiwan, or Xinjian would say China is so well managed, as obvious examples.
  - alphaalpha101 9y ago
    >China's aggregate economy could match the U.S.'s when its citizens are only 25% as wealthy GDP per capita is a terrible measure of citizen wealth. A country could have a much lower GDP per capita than the US and still have a MUCH more wealthier median citizen.
  - 9y ago

seanmcdirmid 9y ago

He isn't prime minister, but party secretary and president. Li Keqiang is premier, the closest thing to a PM, but not as powerful as a party secretary (the president position is ceremonial). Hu Jintao served two terms as party secretary, but never consolidated his power base (Jiang Zemin protruded a lot into his reign), so was not very powerful, even compared to his premier (wen jiabao). Xi, on the other hand, has completely consolidated his power base and sidelined Li Keqiang. His competitors and apparent successors have been hit up on corruption (they are all corrupt, but who gets prosecuted depends on power plays). If his successor (maybe another Hu) isn't apparent at this congress, then there will be a lot of talk of him staying passed his terms. If the successor is named, which is probable, then that talk will stop. However, he could totally pull a Jiang Zemin and retain some powerful poets (e.g. Head of the military commission) to keep more influence afterward. But in reality, all the retired leaders retain power behind the scenes, and it's just a matter of how much (him putting his protégés in power and kicking out Hu's will help a lot).

projectant 9y ago

- Accumulation of many titles, not always held by the General Secretary. Sometimes this is Xi gaining a title of an already existing leadership group, sometimes he has created new groups, such as the "Central Commission for Integrated Military and Civilian Development" ( which is about funding military industries, sort of like the US military-industrial model ). Titles like this mean he has effective policy control over many branches of China's administration. His ability to create new groups shows his ability to reform the bureaucratic hierarchy. - Anti corruption campaign, restore legitimacy in party with regard to people's opinions, level some playing fields, purge the party of corruption and also strengthen ideological and political support for Xi. - Xi has been called "The Core", this term was only ever used for Mao and Deng. - Anti-corruption has also focused on military. Result seems to be Xi has greater control of and greater loyalty from the military. - The PLA garrison in HK broke tradition this year to address Xi as "Chairman", instead of "Commander" --a first. Perhaps this reflects that while usually the leader also Chairs the Central Military Commission, as Xi does, Xi's power is less figurehead and more effective. - Xi has achieved many things internationally that have not been done by China ever: first overseas military base, in Africa; taking control of disputed islands in its coastal waters in defiance of neighbours; creation of the ambitious, "One Belt One Road", infrastructure, trade and investment project, to expand China's influence along a "new silk road" Westward; and exercised tighter control over old and new media, with very effective online censorship. - In summary, he does a lot, has made many changes, is always in the news cycle as an effective leader, and has presided over a very successful period for China both with regard to domestic growth and stability, and international standing and ambitious expansion.

forapurpose 9y ago

> I did not remark China becoming more authoritarian under his rule. Xi greatly suppressed political dissent, online and off. There was a burgeoning, very interesting online debate about democracy and governance, full of thoughtful ideas, brilliant satire, and more. AFAIK, that's mostly gone. You can read about it here: http://chinadigitaltimes.net/ http://chinadigitaltimes.net/ He also arrested and otherwise suppressed many political opponents, at least in large part under the guise of an 'anti-corruption' campaign. He's also revived Communist ideology and a Mao-ish cult of personality for himself. In contrast, Deng Xiaopeng avoided it - my understanding is that he even was cremated and had his ashes scattered at sea so there would be no shrine to him. Finally, he has helped create an intense wave of nationalism. (I will say, in fairness, that cults of personality and nationalism are trendy in other countries too, such as the U.S. I don't know how everyone forgot the evil that those things lead to.)

Iv 9y ago
> Xi greatly suppressed political dissent, online and off. But was that different from his predecessors? > He also arrested and otherwise suppressed many political opponents, at least in large part under the guise of an 'anti-corruption' campaign. That I would like to know more about. Most of the times, people just quote Bo Xilai (who seem to have been a genuinel crime ring boss) and his successor. I have a hard time understanding why the official version is just dismissed. > and a Mao-ish cult of personality for himself. Is there a place to read about that?
- forapurpose 9y ago
  >> Xi greatly suppressed political dissent, online and off. > But was that different from his predecessors? Yes; I meant to say he greatly increased suppression of dissent > Is there a place to read about that? I'd start with the link above. The NY Times covers it occasionally, including a recent story about Xi's childhood home (AFAICT - I didn't read much more than a paragraph).

gbog 9y ago

It's a good idea to question assumptions. And to me living in China since Hu, the main difference is that Chinese people themselves perceive Xi as much stronger than his predecessors, and probably rightly so: the crackdown on corruption is no joke, I have relatives who gave back their German cars to avoid issues. Also people of the diaspora or in Taiwan follow closely the tiger hunt at the head of the state and it seems to not be nowhere like catching butterflies. So yes Xi has earned a reputation.

woodandsteel 9y ago

One way he is more powerful is he has greatly restricted freedom of press and internet discussion, and use this to halt criticism of the regime and the opportunity for any organized opposition to arise. Nowadays people rarely say in public anything except what the regime wants it to say.