6 ms·

Employers constantly tell me "Your resume looks great, you have a lot of skills, so why is there a gap in those years? What were you doing? Don't you have any e

by jokoon 9y ago

Employers constantly tell me "Your resume looks great, you have a lot of skills, so why is there a gap in those years? What were you doing? Don't you have any experience in technology X or Y? You might get bored here". I never get hired.

komali2 9y ago
Next time this happens, I recommend trying to find the root cause. "I appreciate your concern - may I ask what experience has led you to believe someone with my qualifications would appear bored? From my perspective, I've only applied and kept in the hiring process to this point because I am interested in the long term." It's very likely they've got some other reason, and you can then clarify when they give you the "real reason" or adjust your process/resume/story for future applications with that information.
- gxs 9y ago
  You'd be surprised - depending on the type of employer, many will not indulge any questions about any hiring decisions. Granted, if they are providing reasoning already up front (we think you may be bored), it's fair game to ask, but I don't think I've ever seen someone get a response when asking these types of questions.
  - brooklyn_ashey 9y ago
    I have asked these questions in interviews like these and truly -- I get straight-up blatantly illegal discriminatory answers based on age and experience level. It's as though these interviewers have no idea that we have laws against discrimination in the US, and I'm guessing because they are not properly trained in hiring practices/we just don't hold companies accountable for discrimination like we should. This has happened to me four times in the past year alone. Even worse, it has happened to my over 40, African American friend and colleague many more times than that in the past year even though he has a CS degree and experience in teaching code with modern languages. He can't get a dev job, despite his ability to code and teach it and document it well. He's a published writer to boot. They always ask him in interviews why he has not worked as a dev (outside his own projects) at a company... why has he only taught coding? Of course the unvoiced answer goes a little something like this: "well, because companies tend to hire devs according to what is more politely known as "culture-fit", and I just don't seem to "fit the current culture", if you know what I mean." He just needs a job, any job, working in his field or adjacent to it in any way. For three years, he has looked as though it was his more-than-full-time job. (of course then the question is-- what have you been doing outside these side-projects and the unspoken answer is: "interviewing, if I get lucky enough to get an interview, with anyone who will hire me every waking moment of the past three years, when I'm not doing side-projects to make it look like I'm doing something time-consuming and deep and meaningful for no money." He went through his savings doing side-projects and applying to jobs. He's about to be homeless. He recently went after technical writing positions instead of dev roles hoping the age and race thing would be less of an issue. It was ridiculous: he applied at a well-known hosting company for a tech writer job. They put him through his paces with a take home of ridiculous scope/length (for free, as you do). He politely and squarely nailed it. They wrote him back telling him he didn't get to advance because he made a mistake in his directions and they didn't do what he said they did. This was outrageously incorrect. It makes a person want to scream. Instead of being outraged and screaming out the window like in the movie Network, he wrote them back in the most gracious way possible and explained how he understood how their mistake can easily get made by anyone, (not really, but ok, he was being nice) and why his direction was in fact correct and that as a result, he hoped to meet them in person soon, as he was eager to discuss "how he could help over at XYZ" or similar. (this after two phone interviews with them worried he might be overqualified for an associate role there, during which he assured him that the pay would be great, and that he's be happy to write documentation at any level and help in any way he could--). Well, guess what? They wrote back to thank him for alerting them to their ridiculous error, stating that they would change the assignment for future candidates based upon his gracious and clear suggestions (pretty much the definition of his effective technical writing helping them at their company right there). They then explained that he didn't do some other piddling aspect of the writing that if it were an actual compaint, could be solved by a team conversation on preferences. (but the crit was actually untrue in a concrete way, just like the above) Anyway, they let him know that they would not be inviting him to the on-site. Neither one of us can get hired anywhere despite multiple degrees and experience in engineering and in other fields. We are both over 40 and unemployable. Can't get jobs at Trader Joe's bagging groceries (and other unskilled labor, yes- have tried very hard)... overqualified, you see. Maybe we should try for a job in neurosurgery? Neither one of us has experience in that field...
smegel 9y ago
Unless the gap was very recent, it would be weird for that to affect someone in software development. As a research scientist, sure (for better or worse), but if you have spent the past 5 years doing X then you are quite well qualified to do X somewhere else.
- incompatible 9y ago
  The only reason I've heard is that companies are worried that a gap may be due to time in prison.
  - smegel 9y ago
    Ha I didn't think of that.
icantdrive55 9y ago
Lie. Get creative. I know it's hard. "I was building breeding dams on the Rogue River when I wasen't learning a new framework." I have always felt the resume should be replaced by a test.
ringaroundthetx 9y ago
You could just lie about the gap. And to do it without lying you can remain perpetually employed at the random consulting firm you coincidentally founded. MANY OF YOUR EMPLOYED PEERS HAVE DONE THIS
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- KGIII 9y ago
  If I find out later, you will be immediately dismissed. No exceptions. I was honest with the employee and I demand the same in return. If you will lie to me about that, you will lie to me about other things or, worse, lie to coworkers or clients. Dishonesty means your value to me is nothing and there is no reason to continue our relationship. Some forgiveness is fine for my personal relationships, but my business is staked on trust and dishonesty violates that. Then again, I don't really care if there is a gap in your employment history. What you did is none of my concern. I care if you can do the job and if you're the most qualified I can reasonably find.
  - AceyMan 9y ago
    >>>If you will lie to me about that, you will lie to me about other things or, worse, lie to coworkers or clients. This is not clearly the case and it's disingenuous to argue otherwise. Resume gaps are just the ugly zit of people's career arc. Nearly everyone has had one, and they'd all rather not talk about it after the fact. Trying to obscure it somehow by specific construction of the CV is more of a form of blemish concealer. Nothing more. (NB: Your apparent enthusiasm for canning people is frightening. I wish I knew where you worked so I could never cross your path.)
    - KGIII 9y ago
      I've fired remarkably few people, but I do have high standards and hold myself to even higher standards. Dishonesty isn't acceptable in business. I can forgive in a personal relationship, but my reputation is attached to the outcome of the employees work. A willingness to be dishonest is not acceptable. You can tell me you were in Colombia smoking crack, it's okay. Don't lie and say you were in Colombia handing out aid to indigenous people, unless you were. There are some lines that I don't allow people to cross. That is one of them. My employee's actions reflect on me and my other employees. They can cause harm to me or my other employees by making the business look bad. I'd be more concerned with acceptance of dishonesty than I would with a perception of my enthusiasm. The reverse is also true. If someone client is dishonest with one of the employees, our relationship is over. I will not have an employee's reputation harmed by the acts of another. I don't think honesty is too much to ask for. As for your own views, you can take comfort in the fact that I've long since sold and retired.
loup-vaillant 9y ago
Your resume shouldn't have gaps, even if your actual career do. Prospective employers are afraid, and they rely on you to demonstrate a spotless record. You need to asses what they want to hear, then say it. Unless you can afford to be picky yourself, honesty doesn't pay. An employer once told me to my face he was glad my resume didn't have any gap. The real reason my resume doesn't have gaps is because I only write the years during which I've done each gig. You can hide up to 23 months of hiatus that way.
- toomanybeersies 9y ago
  You can also stretch out 2 months of experience to be 2 years!
tessierashpool 9y ago
there are resume tactics you can use to obscure that missed time, and frankly, the older you are, the better it is to use them. not just because of age bias, but also because even a resume reader who has zero age bias is likely to skim the resume, and/or regard your most _recent_ accomplishment as your most _characteristic_ accomplishment as well. so you have to completely disregard chronological order if you want to present a summary of who you are and what you can do, unless you are the one person in the world whose career history has only ever had ups, and never downs. my most recent job search went really slow until I scuttled my comprehensive, chronological resume and replaced it with something which is basically just a list of sales-y bullet points: lots of languages! did this! did that! likewise, don’t bother listing everything you’re good at. list the stuff you’re best at, and list the newest, flashiest stuff, and summarize the rest. “skilled in numerous languages, including Hot New Shit A and Old Thing That I Happen To Be Great At B” is great. if my resume showed every language that I’ve ever used, I’d be including a ton of languages that don’t even exist any more. people don’t see that and think, “wow, how diligent to include such a comprehensive list.” they think, “does this person expect to use that here? why are they wasting my time?”

by jokoon 9y ago

komali2 9y ago

Next time this happens, I recommend trying to find the root cause. "I appreciate your concern - may I ask what experience has led you to believe someone with my qualifications would appear bored? From my perspective, I've only applied and kept in the hiring process to this point because I am interested in the long term." It's very likely they've got some other reason, and you can then clarify when they give you the "real reason" or adjust your process/resume/story for future applications with that information.

gxs 9y ago
You'd be surprised - depending on the type of employer, many will not indulge any questions about any hiring decisions. Granted, if they are providing reasoning already up front (we think you may be bored), it's fair game to ask, but I don't think I've ever seen someone get a response when asking these types of questions.
- brooklyn_ashey 9y ago
  I have asked these questions in interviews like these and truly -- I get straight-up blatantly illegal discriminatory answers based on age and experience level. It's as though these interviewers have no idea that we have laws against discrimination in the US, and I'm guessing because they are not properly trained in hiring practices/we just don't hold companies accountable for discrimination like we should. This has happened to me four times in the past year alone. Even worse, it has happened to my over 40, African American friend and colleague many more times than that in the past year even though he has a CS degree and experience in teaching code with modern languages. He can't get a dev job, despite his ability to code and teach it and document it well. He's a published writer to boot. They always ask him in interviews why he has not worked as a dev (outside his own projects) at a company... why has he only taught coding? Of course the unvoiced answer goes a little something like this: "well, because companies tend to hire devs according to what is more politely known as "culture-fit", and I just don't seem to "fit the current culture", if you know what I mean." He just needs a job, any job, working in his field or adjacent to it in any way. For three years, he has looked as though it was his more-than-full-time job. (of course then the question is-- what have you been doing outside these side-projects and the unspoken answer is: "interviewing, if I get lucky enough to get an interview, with anyone who will hire me every waking moment of the past three years, when I'm not doing side-projects to make it look like I'm doing something time-consuming and deep and meaningful for no money." He went through his savings doing side-projects and applying to jobs. He's about to be homeless. He recently went after technical writing positions instead of dev roles hoping the age and race thing would be less of an issue. It was ridiculous: he applied at a well-known hosting company for a tech writer job. They put him through his paces with a take home of ridiculous scope/length (for free, as you do). He politely and squarely nailed it. They wrote him back telling him he didn't get to advance because he made a mistake in his directions and they didn't do what he said they did. This was outrageously incorrect. It makes a person want to scream. Instead of being outraged and screaming out the window like in the movie Network, he wrote them back in the most gracious way possible and explained how he understood how their mistake can easily get made by anyone, (not really, but ok, he was being nice) and why his direction was in fact correct and that as a result, he hoped to meet them in person soon, as he was eager to discuss "how he could help over at XYZ" or similar. (this after two phone interviews with them worried he might be overqualified for an associate role there, during which he assured him that the pay would be great, and that he's be happy to write documentation at any level and help in any way he could--). Well, guess what? They wrote back to thank him for alerting them to their ridiculous error, stating that they would change the assignment for future candidates based upon his gracious and clear suggestions (pretty much the definition of his effective technical writing helping them at their company right there). They then explained that he didn't do some other piddling aspect of the writing that if it were an actual compaint, could be solved by a team conversation on preferences. (but the crit was actually untrue in a concrete way, just like the above) Anyway, they let him know that they would not be inviting him to the on-site. Neither one of us can get hired anywhere despite multiple degrees and experience in engineering and in other fields. We are both over 40 and unemployable. Can't get jobs at Trader Joe's bagging groceries (and other unskilled labor, yes- have tried very hard)... overqualified, you see. Maybe we should try for a job in neurosurgery? Neither one of us has experience in that field...

smegel 9y ago

Unless the gap was very recent, it would be weird for that to affect someone in software development. As a research scientist, sure (for better or worse), but if you have spent the past 5 years doing X then you are quite well qualified to do X somewhere else.

incompatible 9y ago
The only reason I've heard is that companies are worried that a gap may be due to time in prison.
- smegel 9y ago
  Ha I didn't think of that.

icantdrive55 9y ago

Lie. Get creative. I know it's hard. "I was building breeding dams on the Rogue River when I wasen't learning a new framework." I have always felt the resume should be replaced by a test.

ringaroundthetx 9y ago

You could just lie about the gap. And to do it without lying you can remain perpetually employed at the random consulting firm you coincidentally founded. MANY OF YOUR EMPLOYED PEERS HAVE DONE THIS

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
KGIII 9y ago
If I find out later, you will be immediately dismissed. No exceptions. I was honest with the employee and I demand the same in return. If you will lie to me about that, you will lie to me about other things or, worse, lie to coworkers or clients. Dishonesty means your value to me is nothing and there is no reason to continue our relationship. Some forgiveness is fine for my personal relationships, but my business is staked on trust and dishonesty violates that. Then again, I don't really care if there is a gap in your employment history. What you did is none of my concern. I care if you can do the job and if you're the most qualified I can reasonably find.
- AceyMan 9y ago
  >>>If you will lie to me about that, you will lie to me about other things or, worse, lie to coworkers or clients. This is not clearly the case and it's disingenuous to argue otherwise. Resume gaps are just the ugly zit of people's career arc. Nearly everyone has had one, and they'd all rather not talk about it after the fact. Trying to obscure it somehow by specific construction of the CV is more of a form of blemish concealer. Nothing more. (NB: Your apparent enthusiasm for canning people is frightening. I wish I knew where you worked so I could never cross your path.)
  - KGIII 9y ago
    I've fired remarkably few people, but I do have high standards and hold myself to even higher standards. Dishonesty isn't acceptable in business. I can forgive in a personal relationship, but my reputation is attached to the outcome of the employees work. A willingness to be dishonest is not acceptable. You can tell me you were in Colombia smoking crack, it's okay. Don't lie and say you were in Colombia handing out aid to indigenous people, unless you were. There are some lines that I don't allow people to cross. That is one of them. My employee's actions reflect on me and my other employees. They can cause harm to me or my other employees by making the business look bad. I'd be more concerned with acceptance of dishonesty than I would with a perception of my enthusiasm. The reverse is also true. If someone client is dishonest with one of the employees, our relationship is over. I will not have an employee's reputation harmed by the acts of another. I don't think honesty is too much to ask for. As for your own views, you can take comfort in the fact that I've long since sold and retired.

loup-vaillant 9y ago

Your resume shouldn't have gaps, even if your actual career do. Prospective employers are afraid, and they rely on you to demonstrate a spotless record. You need to asses what they want to hear, then say it. Unless you can afford to be picky yourself, honesty doesn't pay. An employer once told me to my face he was glad my resume didn't have any gap. The real reason my resume doesn't have gaps is because I only write the years during which I've done each gig. You can hide up to 23 months of hiatus that way.

toomanybeersies 9y ago
You can also stretch out 2 months of experience to be 2 years!

tessierashpool 9y ago

there are resume tactics you can use to obscure that missed time, and frankly, the older you are, the better it is to use them. not just because of age bias, but also because even a resume reader who has zero age bias is likely to skim the resume, and/or regard your most _recent_ accomplishment as your most _characteristic_ accomplishment as well. so you have to completely disregard chronological order if you want to present a summary of who you are and what you can do, unless you are the one person in the world whose career history has only ever had ups, and never downs. my most recent job search went really slow until I scuttled my comprehensive, chronological resume and replaced it with something which is basically just a list of sales-y bullet points: lots of languages! did this! did that! likewise, don’t bother listing everything you’re good at. list the stuff you’re best at, and list the newest, flashiest stuff, and summarize the rest. “skilled in numerous languages, including Hot New Shit A and Old Thing That I Happen To Be Great At B” is great. if my resume showed every language that I’ve ever used, I’d be including a ton of languages that don’t even exist any more. people don’t see that and think, “wow, how diligent to include such a comprehensive list.” they think, “does this person expect to use that here? why are they wasting my time?”