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Throwaway for reasons that will become obvious. Imagine that you met a friend you hadn't seen in years. They seemed really down, and you ask what's up. They sa

Throwaway for reasons that will become obvious. Imagine that you met a friend you hadn't seen in years. They seemed really down, and you ask what's up. They say, "My job is to collect tolls in a tollbooth in Alaska. For 9 months a year it's freezing, and the heater breaks every day, and I'm stuck outside wrenching on the thing with one hand while Googling "how to fix a heater" on my phone with the other while I slowly lose my fingertips to frostbite." Now recall a few weeks ago when someone posted an interesting article about a board game full of ridiculous, fiddling little rules that would take years and years to complete [0]. The reason no one has ever played this game through is not because there is _no way_ to play it through. It's not because a reasonably-intelligent person would be _incapable_ of coming up with a strategy for getting through the game. It's because so far, no one has thought it worth that time. There's no payoff. When you talk to a depresssed person like me, you are talking to someone whose body is that tollbooth, and whose life feels like that game. You can say "exercise." You can say "talk to someone." But when you say those things, you are describing a strategy for getting through a 1500-hour board game with no payoff. You are describing to me how to fix a heater in a toll booth in Alaska where I may be stuck for maybe the rest of my life, constantly worried that the damn thing is going to break again. So please, please, use that understanding when you talk to someone like me. Empathize. You can do that. You can say "that sounds awful." You can say "If you want someone to talk to I'm here." You can even say "Hey, let's go to the aquarium!" But be really, really careful about saying "go exercise" or "go talk to a therapist" and never, ever say it's going to be ok. ok? [0] https://kotaku.com/the-notorious-board-game-that-takes-1500-hours-to-compl-1818510912 https://kotaku.com/the-notorious-board-game-that-takes-1500-...

rmetzler 9y ago
I've been in your shoes earlier this year. Or maybe I didn't come even close. I just want to say, I felt like what you describe. Then I read an article about the microbiome of dirt [0]. In the moment I read this on my smartphone I sat in the grass on a hill and I thought to myself, fuck it, what can go wrong, I'm going to stick my finger in dirt, put it in my mouth and eat a little bit of dirt. And that's what I did. I don't know if this was what changed my mood, but what I can say, that my mood was changed in less than a week. All the best to you. [0] https://qz.com/993258/dirt-has-a-microbiome-and-it-may-double-as-an-antidepressant/ https://qz.com/993258/dirt-has-a-microbiome-and-it-may-doubl...
- sparkie 9y ago
  Probably not a great idea to start eating dirt because it may contain M. vaccae. Let's not forget that clostridium botulinum is also present in soil.
  - hycaria 9y ago
    Let's not forget that Clostridium botulinum produces its neurotoxin only in anaerobical conditions, which are not met in soil.
- a_t48 9y ago
  Um. Please be careful, ingesting soil can lead to stuff like Botulism. As for the GP - I've also been there, for many years. I'm not going to suggest treatments because you have a whole thread full of it, and it wouldn't do a damn bit of good unless you happen to be in the right state of mind for it anyhow. I don't know you, but if you do happen to need someone to chat to, I'm down.
  - hycaria 9y ago
    No it can't, botulism happens under anaerobical conditions. Two people doing the same mistake, where does this misconception come from ?! Maybe you guys are mixing it up with tetanus, which can indeed be contracted through soil on a wound (because of Clostridium tetani).
sp3000 9y ago
I fully believe that there is no treatment or regimen on the planet that can ease the burden of some people suffering from severe depression. But the thing is, there are levels of severity to mental illness and depression. And exercise, diet, proper sleep, mindfulness, CBT - all these things have shown to help many depressed people. Will it help all depressed people? Of course not. But by saying be careful what advice we give because it might not apply to you is not a strong enough argument to stop giving this advice. There are undoubtedly people out there that think depressed people should just "get it together" and that way of thinking is not a constructive way to approach this at all. But it is also not constructive for people who are tyring to help (and whose job it is to help) be forced to parse every word they say, scared of recommending something that could help, just because it might hurt feelings. There is a fine line here, of being sensitive and being helpful, and I understand your point and how it can be tiring to listen to people who think they have all the answers to a problem you have suffered from all your life. I have also hung out on r/depression long enough to know there are people who could be helped but have convinced themselves (and others have convinced them) that they are unhelpable because they are depressed and that's that. That is not a healthy mindset, even if that is the case.
- throwaway5650 9y ago
  I'm not sure what you mean by "whose job it is to help." In what sense is it your job? Were you asked to help? If so, by all means do your best, and be grateful that you are trusted. If not, I would recommend asking "is there something I can do to help" and really listening to the answer. In my own experience, the people I love offer me support in many ways. Sometimes they listen to me when I'm having a bad day. Sometimes they ask if I want to go to the gym with them. Sometimes they just check in with me so I know they're there. Those are all kind things, and I appreciate them. But there are two caveats: 1. Those are people I love, not strangers on the internet. They have earned my trust and my attention and consideration. It's not impossible to do that to some extent as a stranger on the internet, but the way to start is by listening and asking questions, not by prescribing things. 2. Even when offering help, my friends are mindful of my feelings. There is a world of difference between "hey, do you want to go to the gym with me?" and "you seem depressed, you should try exercising." The former is an offer of companionship and encouragement. The latter is an alienating statement ("I can tell that there is something wrong with you") and an invitation to self-consciousness and guilt. I guess what I am saying is: most people who are depressed have probably already considered the possibility that diet, exercise, and therapy might help. Before you recommend those things, you should consider whether the circumstances really make you the right person to offer that advice.

rmetzler 9y ago

I've been in your shoes earlier this year. Or maybe I didn't come even close. I just want to say, I felt like what you describe. Then I read an article about the microbiome of dirt [0]. In the moment I read this on my smartphone I sat in the grass on a hill and I thought to myself, fuck it, what can go wrong, I'm going to stick my finger in dirt, put it in my mouth and eat a little bit of dirt. And that's what I did. I don't know if this was what changed my mood, but what I can say, that my mood was changed in less than a week. All the best to you. [0] https://qz.com/993258/dirt-has-a-microbiome-and-it-may-double-as-an-antidepressant/ https://qz.com/993258/dirt-has-a-microbiome-and-it-may-doubl...

sparkie 9y ago
Probably not a great idea to start eating dirt because it may contain M. vaccae. Let's not forget that clostridium botulinum is also present in soil.
- hycaria 9y ago
  Let's not forget that Clostridium botulinum produces its neurotoxin only in anaerobical conditions, which are not met in soil.
a_t48 9y ago
Um. Please be careful, ingesting soil can lead to stuff like Botulism. As for the GP - I've also been there, for many years. I'm not going to suggest treatments because you have a whole thread full of it, and it wouldn't do a damn bit of good unless you happen to be in the right state of mind for it anyhow. I don't know you, but if you do happen to need someone to chat to, I'm down.
- hycaria 9y ago
  No it can't, botulism happens under anaerobical conditions. Two people doing the same mistake, where does this misconception come from ?! Maybe you guys are mixing it up with tetanus, which can indeed be contracted through soil on a wound (because of Clostridium tetani).

sp3000 9y ago

I fully believe that there is no treatment or regimen on the planet that can ease the burden of some people suffering from severe depression. But the thing is, there are levels of severity to mental illness and depression. And exercise, diet, proper sleep, mindfulness, CBT - all these things have shown to help many depressed people. Will it help all depressed people? Of course not. But by saying be careful what advice we give because it might not apply to you is not a strong enough argument to stop giving this advice. There are undoubtedly people out there that think depressed people should just "get it together" and that way of thinking is not a constructive way to approach this at all. But it is also not constructive for people who are tyring to help (and whose job it is to help) be forced to parse every word they say, scared of recommending something that could help, just because it might hurt feelings. There is a fine line here, of being sensitive and being helpful, and I understand your point and how it can be tiring to listen to people who think they have all the answers to a problem you have suffered from all your life. I have also hung out on r/depression long enough to know there are people who could be helped but have convinced themselves (and others have convinced them) that they are unhelpable because they are depressed and that's that. That is not a healthy mindset, even if that is the case.

throwaway5650 9y ago
I'm not sure what you mean by "whose job it is to help." In what sense is it your job? Were you asked to help? If so, by all means do your best, and be grateful that you are trusted. If not, I would recommend asking "is there something I can do to help" and really listening to the answer. In my own experience, the people I love offer me support in many ways. Sometimes they listen to me when I'm having a bad day. Sometimes they ask if I want to go to the gym with them. Sometimes they just check in with me so I know they're there. Those are all kind things, and I appreciate them. But there are two caveats: 1. Those are people I love, not strangers on the internet. They have earned my trust and my attention and consideration. It's not impossible to do that to some extent as a stranger on the internet, but the way to start is by listening and asking questions, not by prescribing things. 2. Even when offering help, my friends are mindful of my feelings. There is a world of difference between "hey, do you want to go to the gym with me?" and "you seem depressed, you should try exercising." The former is an offer of companionship and encouragement. The latter is an alienating statement ("I can tell that there is something wrong with you") and an invitation to self-consciousness and guilt. I guess what I am saying is: most people who are depressed have probably already considered the possibility that diet, exercise, and therapy might help. Before you recommend those things, you should consider whether the circumstances really make you the right person to offer that advice.