9 ms·

Puerto Rico’s Health Care Is in Dire Condition, Three Weeks After Maria

173 points by stablemap 9y ago

toomuchtodo 9y ago
Supplies are still not being distributed across the island: https://twitter.com/lucianrandolph/status/917507001902665728 https://twitter.com/lucianrandolph/status/917507001902665728 Power is still out for the vast majority of the island: http://www.status.pr/ http://www.status.pr/ I have previously [1] suggested [2] crowdfunding the expatriation of Puerto Rican residents. If you know of someone in Puerto Rico, get in touch, get them a job on the mainland, and get them out of there on a commercial flight. If they're a retiree, consider taking them in. EDIT: @ bueble I suppose will throw out the statements and facts from the thread link about people dying from not getting the basic medical treatment they need due to power and facility shortages? [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15412122 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15412122 [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15416635 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15416635
- ceejayoz 9y ago
  A part of the United States with more people than Kansas is 90% without power and 35% without water weeks after a disaster. Shameful, and disturbing how little attention is being paid to it by government and media. > I have previously suggested crowdfunding the expatriation of Puerto Rican residents. If you know of someone in Puerto Rico, get in touch, get them a job on the mainland, and get them out of there on a commercial flight. Preferably, to a swing state. The current lack of political power - no senators, no congresspeople, no electoral votes - will always mean PR is treated very differently than even the smallest state.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - jedmeyers 9y ago
    "Preferably, to a swing state." Yep, move people who voted for the local governemnt that left them unprepared for a disaster like this and make them vote for the same government in a swing state.
    - ceejayoz 9y ago
      The PR government may indeed deserve some blame (maybe even a lot!), but IMO it's absurd to think that their disenfranchised status on a national level doesn't play a role. Their debt is $72 billion. We authorized $700 billion for TARP to bail out failing banks, and $17.4 billion to bail out the Big Three automakers.
      - rayiner 9y ago
        As to the debt (not the natural disaster): Let's be clear, Puerto Rico is a wealthy place. It's richer than Spain. It's $72 billion debt is from overly generous public benefits. It's basically Illinois or Detroit. The Federal Government isn't bailing those places out either, because unlike TARP (which we recovered with a slight profit), we'd never get that money back.
        ceejayoz 9y ago
        What are these "overly generous" public benefits? They get substantially lower Medicare and Medicaid funding per capita, can't join the Federal healthcare exchange, and their citizens aren't eligible for ACA subsidies. https://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/03/us/health-providers-brace-for-more-cuts-to-medicare-in-puerto-rico.html https://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/03/us/health-providers-brace... Puerto Rico's per-capita GDP is also lower than any US state.
        rayiner 9y ago
        > What are these "overly generous" public benefits? Puerto Rico's debt arises from overly generous benefits to public employees and retirees and underfunding: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-puertorico-debt-budget/puerto-rico-budget-to-protect-pension-payments-governor-idUSKBN18R3C8 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-puertorico-debt-budget/pu.... As in Illinois, Detroit, etc., this is purely a local issue, the result of local expenditures not matching local revenues. It has nothing to do with the federal government. As for federal support, on the whole, Puerto Rico receives more in federal support than it pays in federal taxes: https://www.finance.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/Arthur%20MacEwan%20and%20J.%20Tomas%20Hexner%20(Submission%204).pdf https://www.finance.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/Arthur%20MacEwa.... It's sandwiched right between Louisiana and Vermont in that regard. > Puerto Rico's per-capita GDP is also lower than any US state. Yes, but on a purchasing power adjusted basis, it's higher than South Korea, New Zealand, Italy, Spain, and other countries that manage to have solvent public services without relying on outside support.
- bueble 9y ago
  "I personally witnessed the Russians as they attacked our country & election" "Resist! Revoke! Remove! Replace! Resist this treason! Revoke their authority! Remove them from power! Replace them with loyal patriots!" To be honest, this man on Twitter does not appear to be objective or unbiased. If he has a clear vendetta against the President he will obviously paint the situation in the worst possible light.
whathaschanged 9y ago
The fact remains that no matter how much planning one does and how much aid money one receives, it will never be seen as enough. Puerto Rico was a disaster area before this terrible mess through their government's own doing. Acting like this storm caused all of their problems (such as people not receiving proper care) is disingenuous.
jph 9y ago
To give help: https://hispanicfederation.org/unidos/ https://hispanicfederation.org/unidos/ The Unidos fund has 100 percent of donations going toward relief for Hurricane Maria.
- ceejayoz 9y ago
  Wow, someone's on a serious downvote brigade tear on this article if this is (edit: was) getting downvoted to grey.
  - drawkbox 9y ago
    Within the last few weeks especially the botnets have gone on overdrive on all touchy topics, very interesting indeed.
    - eplanit 9y ago
      Great, we now have "fake votes", too?
    - rory096 9y ago
      Botnets with >500 karma per account on Hacker News? Seems unlikely.
      - drawkbox 9y ago
        You might not be a bot, but it is definitely bot talking points, you just fell for them. You fell for the "whataboutism". People are dying in PR, but but what about ... debt and and .. kneeling.
        rory096 9y ago
        What?
        drawkbox 9y ago
drawkbox 9y ago
We need to make them a state finally and never allow this to happen again. For people putting this on budgets/PR, lots of states are in dire situations with budgets/funds and healthcare on the mainland. If you swapped a few states with Puerto Rico in the "big water" you'd have the same exact situation. Many states are in the red. A country should stand up for their citizens in emergencies and tragedies and that includes Puerto Rico.
- tiggybear 9y ago
  lol. Never happen again. Medicine as for-profit and insurance companies dictating what procedures you get. Pick one.
- whathaschanged 9y ago
  Forcing their government to surrender control and become a state goes against the democratic process. https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/2095366 https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/2095366
  - drawkbox 9y ago
    They recently voted to become a state. Certain groups don't want that to happen for some reason. A referendum on the political status of Puerto Rico was held in Puerto Rico on June 11, 2017. The referendum had three options: becoming a state of the United States, independence/free association, or maintaining the current territorial status. Those who voted overwhelmingly chose statehood by 97% https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puerto_Rican_status_referendum,_2017 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puerto_Rican_status_referendum...
    - fastball 9y ago
      "We want to become a state now that we've run our territory into the ground".
    - crusso 9y ago
      I would think that the rest of the sentence that you deleted is important to understanding the vote. ; turnout, however, was 23%, a historically low figure.[3] This figure is attributed to a boycott led by the pro-status quo PPD party.[4]
aoest2sntoenst 9y ago
In my opinion, this seems like grounds for removal of the President, as he appears constitutionally incapable of carrying out the duties required of him. Can you imagine if another President had let this many American citizens suffer so needlessly?
- bueble 9y ago
  Puerto Rico has already received more than $4.0B in federal aid and additional money in civilian aid. PR has an incredibly corrupt government to blame for the gross mishandling of supplies.
  - balls187 9y ago
    Source?
  - mikeash 9y ago
    Then why aren't the Feds stepping in to do it right? This isn't like a state government where it's a sovereign entity and the Feds only have limited power and jurisdiction.
  - octonion 9y ago
    Garbage racism.
  - hyperpape 9y ago
    It's hard to contextualize $4.0B by itself. Quick Googling suggests it's more than went to Houston shortly after Harvey, less than eventually went to the New York area after Sandy (but that's the entire federal relief effort), far less than was needed for Katrina (but I didn't immediately see how much NO got from the feds). In short, I don't think readers in this thread can tell if that's enough money or not, without doing a lot of research on their own.
  - neolefty 9y ago
    Is that historical aid or just for this year's hurricanes?
- 9y ago
r00fus 9y ago
Trump administration FEMA says it's "not our job" [1] to distribute food/water in PR. Trump administration has also declined to extend the Jones Act exemption allowing non-US built ships to send aid tariff/tax free [2]. Therefore non-US approved international aid incurs fees/taxes. So we don't treat Puerto Ricans as US Citizens but don't allow other countries to assist without impounding taxes and duties on the supplies. Willful negligence. [1] https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/10/10/1705685/-FEMA-Not-our-job-to-deliver-water-and-food-to-Puerto-Ricans-Think-I-am-making-this-up-Wrong https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/10/10/1705685/-FEMA-No... [2] https://www.cbsnews.com/news/dhs-will-let-jones-act-waiver-for-puerto-rico-expire/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/dhs-will-let-jones-act-waiver-f...
- m52go 9y ago
  There's more to the story. Don't get caught up in propaganda rooted in domestic American politics (i.e., #theresistance). It's a disservice to the people of Puerto Rico. Report that Puerto Rican mayors were holding supplies for political gain: https://www.metro.pr/pr/noticias/2017/10/09/fiscalia-federal-confirma-pesquisa-alcaldes-se-apropian-ayuda-fema.html https://www.metro.pr/pr/noticias/2017/10/09/fiscalia-federal... First-hand account corroborating report above: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Uc1pPsKt_s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Uc1pPsKt_s EDIT: it's fair to question the authenticity of the video, but the article simply announces an investigation. Not sure what's "racist" or "nonsensical" about posting that.
  - octonion 9y ago
    Why would you post this nonsensical, racist garbage? What is wrong with you?
    - drawkbox 9y ago
      It is classic propaganda "whataboutism"[1]. Very popular in the Cold War and in modern day Russian botnets. Crazy enough, it was also popular this last election. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
vermontdevil 9y ago
And Trump's administration has even released a video showing everything is fine.
- choward 9y ago
  I don't know. Mark Zuckerberg teleported there and it still looks pretty messed up.
misterHN 9y ago
If this story were actually important, the new york times would not put it behind a paywall. The fact that HN is promoting an unimportant story from the new york times, the fact that the new york times has, for two days straight, printed absolute nonsense on the Harvey Weinstein story first from Lena Dunham then from Gwenyth Paltrow, in my eyes, is a legitimate reason for investigating the independence of HN from the new york times. Is HN afraid of the new york times? Paul Graham, Are you afraid of the new york times?
- brndnmtthws 9y ago
  FYI just use incognito mode.
  - misterHN 9y ago
    Excuse me, HN is polluting my news feed with a story from the new york times that the new york times does not believe is important enough to warrant taking down a paywall for. Furthermore, the new york times has utterly disgraced itself over the Harvey Weinstein story. HN is giving the new york times a huge demonstration of support while the new york times is transforming into a sleazy tabloid. The new york times must be punished for its failure to properly cover the Weinstein story. HN must hold the new york times accountable and must form partnerships with other news organizations in order to send the new york times a message. Promoting the careers of individuals who are utterly detestable and disgusting such as Lena Dunham and Gwyneth Paltrow is unacceptable. It is the work of publicists. If the new york times considers itself a publicist for these two individuals, then it should stop calling itself a news organization.
olivermarks 9y ago
Given the incredible amounts the USA spends on 'defence' one wonders where all the assets the pentagon buys are to help US citizens after a violent attack by the elements. Why isn't the army mobilized to help with all aspects of infrastructure including healthcare?
- neolefty 9y ago
  They're at least somewhat mobilized. For example the "medical treatment ship" Comfort is on the scene: > There are urgent attempts to help. The federal government has sent 10 Disaster Medical Assistance Teams of civilian doctors, nurses, paramedics and others to the island. Four mobile hospitals have been set up in hospital parking lots, and the Comfort, a medical treatment ship, is on the scene. A 44-bed hospital will soon open in badly wrecked Humacao, in the southeast. > But even as the Army Corps of Engineers is installing dozens of generators at medical facilities, and utility crews work to restore power to 36 hospitals, medical workers and patients say that an intense medical crisis persists and that communications and electrical difficulties have obscured the true number of fatalities directly related to the hurricane. The official count rose on Tuesday to 43. > Matching resources with needs remains a problem. The Puerto Rico Department of Health has sent just 82 patients to the Comfort over the past six days, even though the ship can serve 250. The Comfort’s 800 medical personnel were treating just seven patients on Monday. I don't really know enough to say whether our military is doing all it can, but it's certainly doing something significant. And they appear to still be hobbled by the laws of physics and the limits of human resourcefulness and endurance.
- forapurpose 9y ago
  The U.S. has to be very careful about making the military the solution to everything. Due in part to the reasons below, it funds the military at incredible levels and the self-fulfilling result is that the military has the resources when they are needed. It's dangerous: Military officers have unprecedented power in government. They now fill the roles of Secretary of Defense (the first since WWII; an essential reason for the job is civilian control of the military), White House Chief of Staff (and a very powerful one at that), and National Security Advisor. Many see them as the source of stability in the White House, given the erratic behavior of Trump. Think of the implication: Only military officers can be trusted; others (diplomats, other government leaders) are sub-standard. In foreign policy, all issues are now handled primarily through the military, not the State Department - war not diplomacy. The State Department has been radically sidelined, to a degree unprecedented in memory or even history. Jobs are left unfilled, personnel are ignored - given no responsibilities or input - and talent is leaving in droves. (See foreignpolicy.com if you want to read coverage of it.) The President and much of the GOP openly advocate for military solutions to problems and mock diplomacy, and the America First people say that's how to deal with the world. "Love" of the military - a widely used expression - has become an ideology and now almost a norm. If you don't "love" the military, you aren't patriotic. It is put on a high pedestal. In the NFL controversy, many say the people kneeling are being disrespectful to the military - but the flag and the anthem are for the country, not for one executive branch institution. I was at a small college graduation in a rural area and ROTC graduates, and only them, were given a standing ovation - not the summa cum laude grads, not the PhD's, not those providing other services to community and country, nobody else. Civilian-military divide is a serious problem. With an all-volunteer military, many civilians have no contact with it and little understanding. When there was a draft, all of society was familiar with the military and it was seen as a normal institution with all that implies (remember where the terms SNAFU and FUBAR come from). Now civilians know little about it and therefore idealize it - as if the military are movie heroes - and in my limited experience a significant part of the military think they deserve that worship (e.g., recently Sec of Defense Mattis was on tape telling soldiers that people who didn't serve are (something derogatory); a year or two ago I read an editorial in a well-known defense policy publication that suggested only those who serve should get to vote; General Kelly this year said citizens had no moral right to question those who serve and should 'just say thank you'). Also, members of the military, and especially enlisted, are overwhelmingly conservative and disproportionately represent other demographics too, and are not representative of the society they serve. ... Above is a roadmap to fascism; it's almost out of the textbook. The U.S. has powerful institutions, but you really need to stick your head in the sand to think it will just work out - that's not how prior generations built the country and institutions that were inherited by today's citizens; what will they pass on to future generations? The idealization also is a critical disservice to the soldiers, to whom society has a great, very serious responsibility. If U.S. voters are going to send them to risk and otherwise ruin their lives, both physically and psychologically, the citizens had better do everything they can to avoid it and they'd better make a very careful decision, which requires a very clear-eyed, realistic understanding of the military. And finally, this ideal military doesn't perform well. Corruption is rife; over the last ~5 years a large number of generals and admirals have been removed for it, and we all know about the weapons programs. Iraq and Afghanistan were badly planned and executed - the U.S. defeated both Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan in less than 4 years, yet these two current wars continue for 14-17 years and counting. How many soldiers lives and souls were wasted due to the military's failures? It's a horrible thing to think, but far more horrible is gloss over it and for citizens to not ask tough questions, see the military for what it is (a normal human institution), and fail their responsibilities to today's soldiers.
jbob2000 9y ago
As much as the current administration deserves blame for the mishandling of this crisis, I think it's disingenuous to stop the conversation there. The island was pretty much wiped out. Even with billions of dollars and hundreds of thousands of people, you'd still have people dying. Right from the article: > The Puerto Rico Department of Health has sent just 82 patients to the Comfort over the past six days, even though the ship can serve 250. The Comfort’s 800 medical personnel were treating just seven patients on Monday. They do have resources, but I bet it's just extremely difficult to move people and supplies around on an island that is barely above water. You just can't fight nature and expect to come out with no losses. Also, the heartless cynic in me thinks that the powers that be are letting this get a little drawn out so the poor people on public health assistance die off and eat up less resources. If 6,000 people no longer need dialysis, you're saving $300,000,000/year.
dang 9y ago
There's (almost) nothing of intellectual curiosity in this thread and a plethora of partisan battle. That's the inverse of the values of HN, so I've buried the submission. Sometimes a politically charged topic has an intellectually interesting aspect and the discussion is able to balance itself with both. Such threads are ok; this isn't one. All: if you haven't recently, would you mind learning about the values of this site by reading https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html, then (going backward in time) https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html and https://news.ycombinator.com/hackernews.html https://news.ycombinator.com/hackernews.html? Those will fill you in. The default tendency on the internet is so strongly toward entropy that we'd appreciate your attending to what kind of site HN is trying (and trying not) to be.

173 points by stablemap 9y ago

Supplies are still not being distributed across the island: https://twitter.com/lucianrandolph/status/917507001902665728 https://twitter.com/lucianrandolph/status/917507001902665728 Power is still out for the vast majority of the island: http://www.status.pr/ http://www.status.pr/ I have previously [1] suggested [2] crowdfunding the expatriation of Puerto Rican residents. If you know of someone in Puerto Rico, get in touch, get them a job on the mainland, and get them out of there on a commercial flight. If they're a retiree, consider taking them in. EDIT: @ bueble I suppose will throw out the statements and facts from the thread link about people dying from not getting the basic medical treatment they need due to power and facility shortages? [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15412122 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15412122 [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15416635 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15416635

ceejayoz 9y ago
A part of the United States with more people than Kansas is 90% without power and 35% without water weeks after a disaster. Shameful, and disturbing how little attention is being paid to it by government and media. > I have previously suggested crowdfunding the expatriation of Puerto Rican residents. If you know of someone in Puerto Rico, get in touch, get them a job on the mainland, and get them out of there on a commercial flight. Preferably, to a swing state. The current lack of political power - no senators, no congresspeople, no electoral votes - will always mean PR is treated very differently than even the smallest state.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- jedmeyers 9y ago
  "Preferably, to a swing state." Yep, move people who voted for the local governemnt that left them unprepared for a disaster like this and make them vote for the same government in a swing state.
  - ceejayoz 9y ago
    The PR government may indeed deserve some blame (maybe even a lot!), but IMO it's absurd to think that their disenfranchised status on a national level doesn't play a role. Their debt is $72 billion. We authorized $700 billion for TARP to bail out failing banks, and $17.4 billion to bail out the Big Three automakers.
    - rayiner 9y ago
      As to the debt (not the natural disaster): Let's be clear, Puerto Rico is a wealthy place. It's richer than Spain. It's $72 billion debt is from overly generous public benefits. It's basically Illinois or Detroit. The Federal Government isn't bailing those places out either, because unlike TARP (which we recovered with a slight profit), we'd never get that money back.
      - ceejayoz 9y ago
        What are these "overly generous" public benefits? They get substantially lower Medicare and Medicaid funding per capita, can't join the Federal healthcare exchange, and their citizens aren't eligible for ACA subsidies. https://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/03/us/health-providers-brace-for-more-cuts-to-medicare-in-puerto-rico.html https://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/03/us/health-providers-brace... Puerto Rico's per-capita GDP is also lower than any US state.
        rayiner 9y ago
        > What are these "overly generous" public benefits? Puerto Rico's debt arises from overly generous benefits to public employees and retirees and underfunding: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-puertorico-debt-budget/puerto-rico-budget-to-protect-pension-payments-governor-idUSKBN18R3C8 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-puertorico-debt-budget/pu.... As in Illinois, Detroit, etc., this is purely a local issue, the result of local expenditures not matching local revenues. It has nothing to do with the federal government. As for federal support, on the whole, Puerto Rico receives more in federal support than it pays in federal taxes: https://www.finance.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/Arthur%20MacEwan%20and%20J.%20Tomas%20Hexner%20(Submission%204).pdf https://www.finance.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/Arthur%20MacEwa.... It's sandwiched right between Louisiana and Vermont in that regard. > Puerto Rico's per-capita GDP is also lower than any US state. Yes, but on a purchasing power adjusted basis, it's higher than South Korea, New Zealand, Italy, Spain, and other countries that manage to have solvent public services without relying on outside support.
bueble 9y ago
"I personally witnessed the Russians as they attacked our country & election" "Resist! Revoke! Remove! Replace! Resist this treason! Revoke their authority! Remove them from power! Replace them with loyal patriots!" To be honest, this man on Twitter does not appear to be objective or unbiased. If he has a clear vendetta against the President he will obviously paint the situation in the worst possible light.

whathaschanged 9y ago

The fact remains that no matter how much planning one does and how much aid money one receives, it will never be seen as enough. Puerto Rico was a disaster area before this terrible mess through their government's own doing. Acting like this storm caused all of their problems (such as people not receiving proper care) is disingenuous.

jph 9y ago

To give help: https://hispanicfederation.org/unidos/ https://hispanicfederation.org/unidos/ The Unidos fund has 100 percent of donations going toward relief for Hurricane Maria.

ceejayoz 9y ago
Wow, someone's on a serious downvote brigade tear on this article if this is (edit: was) getting downvoted to grey.
- drawkbox 9y ago
  Within the last few weeks especially the botnets have gone on overdrive on all touchy topics, very interesting indeed.
  - eplanit 9y ago
    Great, we now have "fake votes", too?
  - rory096 9y ago
    Botnets with >500 karma per account on Hacker News? Seems unlikely.
    - drawkbox 9y ago
      You might not be a bot, but it is definitely bot talking points, you just fell for them. You fell for the "whataboutism". People are dying in PR, but but what about ... debt and and .. kneeling.
      - rory096 9y ago
        What?
        drawkbox 9y ago

drawkbox 9y ago

We need to make them a state finally and never allow this to happen again. For people putting this on budgets/PR, lots of states are in dire situations with budgets/funds and healthcare on the mainland. If you swapped a few states with Puerto Rico in the "big water" you'd have the same exact situation. Many states are in the red. A country should stand up for their citizens in emergencies and tragedies and that includes Puerto Rico.

tiggybear 9y ago
lol. Never happen again. Medicine as for-profit and insurance companies dictating what procedures you get. Pick one.
whathaschanged 9y ago
Forcing their government to surrender control and become a state goes against the democratic process. https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/2095366 https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/2095366
- drawkbox 9y ago
  They recently voted to become a state. Certain groups don't want that to happen for some reason. A referendum on the political status of Puerto Rico was held in Puerto Rico on June 11, 2017. The referendum had three options: becoming a state of the United States, independence/free association, or maintaining the current territorial status. Those who voted overwhelmingly chose statehood by 97% https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puerto_Rican_status_referendum,_2017 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puerto_Rican_status_referendum...
  - fastball 9y ago
    "We want to become a state now that we've run our territory into the ground".
  - crusso 9y ago
    I would think that the rest of the sentence that you deleted is important to understanding the vote. ; turnout, however, was 23%, a historically low figure.[3] This figure is attributed to a boycott led by the pro-status quo PPD party.[4]

aoest2sntoenst 9y ago

In my opinion, this seems like grounds for removal of the President, as he appears constitutionally incapable of carrying out the duties required of him. Can you imagine if another President had let this many American citizens suffer so needlessly?

bueble 9y ago
Puerto Rico has already received more than $4.0B in federal aid and additional money in civilian aid. PR has an incredibly corrupt government to blame for the gross mishandling of supplies.
- balls187 9y ago
  Source?
- mikeash 9y ago
  Then why aren't the Feds stepping in to do it right? This isn't like a state government where it's a sovereign entity and the Feds only have limited power and jurisdiction.
- octonion 9y ago
  Garbage racism.
- hyperpape 9y ago
  It's hard to contextualize $4.0B by itself. Quick Googling suggests it's more than went to Houston shortly after Harvey, less than eventually went to the New York area after Sandy (but that's the entire federal relief effort), far less than was needed for Katrina (but I didn't immediately see how much NO got from the feds). In short, I don't think readers in this thread can tell if that's enough money or not, without doing a lot of research on their own.
- neolefty 9y ago
  Is that historical aid or just for this year's hurricanes?
9y ago

r00fus 9y ago

Trump administration FEMA says it's "not our job" [1] to distribute food/water in PR. Trump administration has also declined to extend the Jones Act exemption allowing non-US built ships to send aid tariff/tax free [2]. Therefore non-US approved international aid incurs fees/taxes. So we don't treat Puerto Ricans as US Citizens but don't allow other countries to assist without impounding taxes and duties on the supplies. Willful negligence. [1] https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/10/10/1705685/-FEMA-Not-our-job-to-deliver-water-and-food-to-Puerto-Ricans-Think-I-am-making-this-up-Wrong https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/10/10/1705685/-FEMA-No... [2] https://www.cbsnews.com/news/dhs-will-let-jones-act-waiver-for-puerto-rico-expire/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/dhs-will-let-jones-act-waiver-f...

m52go 9y ago
There's more to the story. Don't get caught up in propaganda rooted in domestic American politics (i.e., #theresistance). It's a disservice to the people of Puerto Rico. Report that Puerto Rican mayors were holding supplies for political gain: https://www.metro.pr/pr/noticias/2017/10/09/fiscalia-federal-confirma-pesquisa-alcaldes-se-apropian-ayuda-fema.html https://www.metro.pr/pr/noticias/2017/10/09/fiscalia-federal... First-hand account corroborating report above: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Uc1pPsKt_s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Uc1pPsKt_s EDIT: it's fair to question the authenticity of the video, but the article simply announces an investigation. Not sure what's "racist" or "nonsensical" about posting that.
- octonion 9y ago
  Why would you post this nonsensical, racist garbage? What is wrong with you?
  - drawkbox 9y ago
    It is classic propaganda "whataboutism"[1]. Very popular in the Cold War and in modern day Russian botnets. Crazy enough, it was also popular this last election. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

vermontdevil 9y ago

And Trump's administration has even released a video showing everything is fine.

choward 9y ago
I don't know. Mark Zuckerberg teleported there and it still looks pretty messed up.

misterHN 9y ago

If this story were actually important, the new york times would not put it behind a paywall. The fact that HN is promoting an unimportant story from the new york times, the fact that the new york times has, for two days straight, printed absolute nonsense on the Harvey Weinstein story first from Lena Dunham then from Gwenyth Paltrow, in my eyes, is a legitimate reason for investigating the independence of HN from the new york times. Is HN afraid of the new york times? Paul Graham, Are you afraid of the new york times?

brndnmtthws 9y ago
FYI just use incognito mode.
- misterHN 9y ago
  Excuse me, HN is polluting my news feed with a story from the new york times that the new york times does not believe is important enough to warrant taking down a paywall for. Furthermore, the new york times has utterly disgraced itself over the Harvey Weinstein story. HN is giving the new york times a huge demonstration of support while the new york times is transforming into a sleazy tabloid. The new york times must be punished for its failure to properly cover the Weinstein story. HN must hold the new york times accountable and must form partnerships with other news organizations in order to send the new york times a message. Promoting the careers of individuals who are utterly detestable and disgusting such as Lena Dunham and Gwyneth Paltrow is unacceptable. It is the work of publicists. If the new york times considers itself a publicist for these two individuals, then it should stop calling itself a news organization.

olivermarks 9y ago

Given the incredible amounts the USA spends on 'defence' one wonders where all the assets the pentagon buys are to help US citizens after a violent attack by the elements. Why isn't the army mobilized to help with all aspects of infrastructure including healthcare?

neolefty 9y ago
They're at least somewhat mobilized. For example the "medical treatment ship" Comfort is on the scene: > There are urgent attempts to help. The federal government has sent 10 Disaster Medical Assistance Teams of civilian doctors, nurses, paramedics and others to the island. Four mobile hospitals have been set up in hospital parking lots, and the Comfort, a medical treatment ship, is on the scene. A 44-bed hospital will soon open in badly wrecked Humacao, in the southeast. > But even as the Army Corps of Engineers is installing dozens of generators at medical facilities, and utility crews work to restore power to 36 hospitals, medical workers and patients say that an intense medical crisis persists and that communications and electrical difficulties have obscured the true number of fatalities directly related to the hurricane. The official count rose on Tuesday to 43. > Matching resources with needs remains a problem. The Puerto Rico Department of Health has sent just 82 patients to the Comfort over the past six days, even though the ship can serve 250. The Comfort’s 800 medical personnel were treating just seven patients on Monday. I don't really know enough to say whether our military is doing all it can, but it's certainly doing something significant. And they appear to still be hobbled by the laws of physics and the limits of human resourcefulness and endurance.
forapurpose 9y ago
The U.S. has to be very careful about making the military the solution to everything. Due in part to the reasons below, it funds the military at incredible levels and the self-fulfilling result is that the military has the resources when they are needed. It's dangerous: Military officers have unprecedented power in government. They now fill the roles of Secretary of Defense (the first since WWII; an essential reason for the job is civilian control of the military), White House Chief of Staff (and a very powerful one at that), and National Security Advisor. Many see them as the source of stability in the White House, given the erratic behavior of Trump. Think of the implication: Only military officers can be trusted; others (diplomats, other government leaders) are sub-standard. In foreign policy, all issues are now handled primarily through the military, not the State Department - war not diplomacy. The State Department has been radically sidelined, to a degree unprecedented in memory or even history. Jobs are left unfilled, personnel are ignored - given no responsibilities or input - and talent is leaving in droves. (See foreignpolicy.com if you want to read coverage of it.) The President and much of the GOP openly advocate for military solutions to problems and mock diplomacy, and the America First people say that's how to deal with the world. "Love" of the military - a widely used expression - has become an ideology and now almost a norm. If you don't "love" the military, you aren't patriotic. It is put on a high pedestal. In the NFL controversy, many say the people kneeling are being disrespectful to the military - but the flag and the anthem are for the country, not for one executive branch institution. I was at a small college graduation in a rural area and ROTC graduates, and only them, were given a standing ovation - not the summa cum laude grads, not the PhD's, not those providing other services to community and country, nobody else. Civilian-military divide is a serious problem. With an all-volunteer military, many civilians have no contact with it and little understanding. When there was a draft, all of society was familiar with the military and it was seen as a normal institution with all that implies (remember where the terms SNAFU and FUBAR come from). Now civilians know little about it and therefore idealize it - as if the military are movie heroes - and in my limited experience a significant part of the military think they deserve that worship (e.g., recently Sec of Defense Mattis was on tape telling soldiers that people who didn't serve are (something derogatory); a year or two ago I read an editorial in a well-known defense policy publication that suggested only those who serve should get to vote; General Kelly this year said citizens had no moral right to question those who serve and should 'just say thank you'). Also, members of the military, and especially enlisted, are overwhelmingly conservative and disproportionately represent other demographics too, and are not representative of the society they serve. ... Above is a roadmap to fascism; it's almost out of the textbook. The U.S. has powerful institutions, but you really need to stick your head in the sand to think it will just work out - that's not how prior generations built the country and institutions that were inherited by today's citizens; what will they pass on to future generations? The idealization also is a critical disservice to the soldiers, to whom society has a great, very serious responsibility. If U.S. voters are going to send them to risk and otherwise ruin their lives, both physically and psychologically, the citizens had better do everything they can to avoid it and they'd better make a very careful decision, which requires a very clear-eyed, realistic understanding of the military. And finally, this ideal military doesn't perform well. Corruption is rife; over the last ~5 years a large number of generals and admirals have been removed for it, and we all know about the weapons programs. Iraq and Afghanistan were badly planned and executed - the U.S. defeated both Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan in less than 4 years, yet these two current wars continue for 14-17 years and counting. How many soldiers lives and souls were wasted due to the military's failures? It's a horrible thing to think, but far more horrible is gloss over it and for citizens to not ask tough questions, see the military for what it is (a normal human institution), and fail their responsibilities to today's soldiers.

jbob2000 9y ago

As much as the current administration deserves blame for the mishandling of this crisis, I think it's disingenuous to stop the conversation there. The island was pretty much wiped out. Even with billions of dollars and hundreds of thousands of people, you'd still have people dying. Right from the article: > The Puerto Rico Department of Health has sent just 82 patients to the Comfort over the past six days, even though the ship can serve 250. The Comfort’s 800 medical personnel were treating just seven patients on Monday. They do have resources, but I bet it's just extremely difficult to move people and supplies around on an island that is barely above water. You just can't fight nature and expect to come out with no losses. Also, the heartless cynic in me thinks that the powers that be are letting this get a little drawn out so the poor people on public health assistance die off and eat up less resources. If 6,000 people no longer need dialysis, you're saving $300,000,000/year.

dang 9y ago

There's (almost) nothing of intellectual curiosity in this thread and a plethora of partisan battle. That's the inverse of the values of HN, so I've buried the submission. Sometimes a politically charged topic has an intellectually interesting aspect and the discussion is able to balance itself with both. Such threads are ok; this isn't one. All: if you haven't recently, would you mind learning about the values of this site by reading https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html, then (going backward in time) https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html and https://news.ycombinator.com/hackernews.html https://news.ycombinator.com/hackernews.html? Those will fill you in. The default tendency on the internet is so strongly toward entropy that we'd appreciate your attending to what kind of site HN is trying (and trying not) to be.