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After some of the product shutdowns by Google I feel like there's a huge risk building your visualizations on this product. There are so many alternative ways

by iaw 9y ago

After some of the product shutdowns by Google I feel like there's a huge risk building your visualizations on this product. There are so many alternative ways to achieve the same goal for free or very low cost that unless Google has some secret sauce the product will probably be dead in a few years causing headaches for anyone relying on them.

orf 9y ago
Replace 'Google' with the name of any of the other startups (or larger companies) in this space and it makes just as much sense.
- richforrester 9y ago
  Not really. Proven trackrecords matter. Also, Google can shut down this product without thinking twice. A company that has it as their sole product however, can't. That's a huge difference.
  - chaosite 9y ago
    Startups fold or get bought and shutdown their product all the time. With Google you usually get a year heads-up before your API disappears Sure, both scenarios are not ideal, and there are usually other very good reasons to prefer the non-Google solution. But it's not like going with Google is a horrible mistake that would leave you SOL.
    - fuck_google 9y ago
      Going with Google just makes you look like a fool. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
    - richforrester 9y ago
      > (or larger companies) in this space That's what I'm responding to. Of course startups can be far worse. Goes without saying.
  - s17n 9y ago
    According to the above poster, Google has killed 27% of their products. Way more than 27% of startups don't make it.
    - richforrester 9y ago
      > (or larger companies) in this space That's what I'm responding to. Of course startups can be far worse. Goes without saying.
      - s17n 9y ago
        You mentioned companies with only one product, aka startups.
        jimnotgym 9y ago
        I don't think this necessarily follows. There are established companies with long track records who specialise in one area.
        musage 9y ago
        > companies with only one product, aka startups. from the top of my head: http://renoise.com/ http://renoise.com/ https://www.gpsoft.com.au/ https://www.gpsoft.com.au/ https://www.ultraedit.com/ https://www.ultraedit.com/ Incidentally, they're the best in their respective fields I know of. They don't make products, they don't make product, they make and improve these particular applications. I would LOVE them to expand and make, say, clothing and hair gel with that same intelligent, no-nonsense craftsmanship approach. Not to mention operating systems and search engines. For now I'll dream of Directory Opus for Linux and not even get that.
    - onion2k 9y ago
      It feels like that's only part of the story though. What's key is which products get killed, and very simply it's anything that doesn't directly make money or indirectly make money by locking you in to Google's core offering. That's perfectly fine, and wholly understandable, but it means products like this data studio that don't directly relate to ads, publishing or mapping are likely to get killed in the future. When people suggest not using it for fear it'll disappear one day they're making what appears to be, to me at least, a rational decision.
- hueving 9y ago
  So you're saying this should be treated just like a risky product from a no-name startup? That's a pretty sad place to have your product valued when you're in the position of a large company.
ehsankia 9y ago
I don't understand how people keep bringing up Google product shutdowns as if literally half their products get discontinued. Yes, there are a couple, but that's because they have so many more products than any other company. I'm sure if you looked at it percentage wise, they're actually probably on the lower end compared to most other companies. Obviously if you make thousands and thousands of products, then a couple will eventually have to be dropped. Can you even name me 5 big products they've ended which had a huge impact.
- obmelvin 9y ago
  People also bring it up for products like this, which is related tangentially to Ads or google cloud offerings. Google is not going to shut something like this down that enhances their revenue
  - iaw 9y ago
    >Google is not going to shut something like this down that enhances their revenue Right now this product is losing substantial amounts of money, we're talking on the order of tens of millions USD per year. If the net present cost of support exceeds the net present value of the product revenue stream Google has every right to cull it. It's their prerogative as a business. My prerogative as a business consumer (when I am in that position) makes me wary of being reliant on the whims of a multi-billion dollar company whose primary revenues are generated from ads for my analytics needs. It's quite possible Google Data Studio is going to be the next big thing for the company, it's just as possible it doesn't get the desired traction and ends up culled from their offerings.
- FooHentai 9y ago
  >there are a couple, but that's because they have so many more products than any other company. I'm sure if you looked at it percentage wise, they're actually probably on the lower end compared to most other companies. First cut from just checking Wikipedia. Number of google services: 117. Number of discontinued google services: 43. So what's that.. about 40%?
  - 9y ago
nunez 9y ago
Google typically only shuts down Services that already have very low user counts relative to their bigger offerings. Reader was a huge exception, though its closing was more of a migration (to Google+) than a shutdown and it was done under the pretense of moving people to G+.
the_arun 9y ago
Do we have something similar from AWS?
Boothroid 9y ago
Exactly what I thought. Why would you choose to build anything sizeable on something that could be shut down?

by iaw 9y ago

orf 9y ago

Replace 'Google' with the name of any of the other startups (or larger companies) in this space and it makes just as much sense.

richforrester 9y ago
Not really. Proven trackrecords matter. Also, Google can shut down this product without thinking twice. A company that has it as their sole product however, can't. That's a huge difference.
- chaosite 9y ago
  Startups fold or get bought and shutdown their product all the time. With Google you usually get a year heads-up before your API disappears Sure, both scenarios are not ideal, and there are usually other very good reasons to prefer the non-Google solution. But it's not like going with Google is a horrible mistake that would leave you SOL.
  - fuck_google 9y ago
    Going with Google just makes you look like a fool. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
  - richforrester 9y ago
    > (or larger companies) in this space That's what I'm responding to. Of course startups can be far worse. Goes without saying.
- s17n 9y ago
  According to the above poster, Google has killed 27% of their products. Way more than 27% of startups don't make it.
  - richforrester 9y ago
    > (or larger companies) in this space That's what I'm responding to. Of course startups can be far worse. Goes without saying.
    - s17n 9y ago
      You mentioned companies with only one product, aka startups.
      - jimnotgym 9y ago
        I don't think this necessarily follows. There are established companies with long track records who specialise in one area.
      - musage 9y ago
        > companies with only one product, aka startups. from the top of my head: http://renoise.com/ http://renoise.com/ https://www.gpsoft.com.au/ https://www.gpsoft.com.au/ https://www.ultraedit.com/ https://www.ultraedit.com/ Incidentally, they're the best in their respective fields I know of. They don't make products, they don't make product, they make and improve these particular applications. I would LOVE them to expand and make, say, clothing and hair gel with that same intelligent, no-nonsense craftsmanship approach. Not to mention operating systems and search engines. For now I'll dream of Directory Opus for Linux and not even get that.
  - onion2k 9y ago
    It feels like that's only part of the story though. What's key is which products get killed, and very simply it's anything that doesn't directly make money or indirectly make money by locking you in to Google's core offering. That's perfectly fine, and wholly understandable, but it means products like this data studio that don't directly relate to ads, publishing or mapping are likely to get killed in the future. When people suggest not using it for fear it'll disappear one day they're making what appears to be, to me at least, a rational decision.
hueving 9y ago
So you're saying this should be treated just like a risky product from a no-name startup? That's a pretty sad place to have your product valued when you're in the position of a large company.

ehsankia 9y ago

I don't understand how people keep bringing up Google product shutdowns as if literally half their products get discontinued. Yes, there are a couple, but that's because they have so many more products than any other company. I'm sure if you looked at it percentage wise, they're actually probably on the lower end compared to most other companies. Obviously if you make thousands and thousands of products, then a couple will eventually have to be dropped. Can you even name me 5 big products they've ended which had a huge impact.

obmelvin 9y ago
People also bring it up for products like this, which is related tangentially to Ads or google cloud offerings. Google is not going to shut something like this down that enhances their revenue
- iaw 9y ago
  >Google is not going to shut something like this down that enhances their revenue Right now this product is losing substantial amounts of money, we're talking on the order of tens of millions USD per year. If the net present cost of support exceeds the net present value of the product revenue stream Google has every right to cull it. It's their prerogative as a business. My prerogative as a business consumer (when I am in that position) makes me wary of being reliant on the whims of a multi-billion dollar company whose primary revenues are generated from ads for my analytics needs. It's quite possible Google Data Studio is going to be the next big thing for the company, it's just as possible it doesn't get the desired traction and ends up culled from their offerings.
FooHentai 9y ago
>there are a couple, but that's because they have so many more products than any other company. I'm sure if you looked at it percentage wise, they're actually probably on the lower end compared to most other companies. First cut from just checking Wikipedia. Number of google services: 117. Number of discontinued google services: 43. So what's that.. about 40%?
- 9y ago

nunez 9y ago

Google typically only shuts down Services that already have very low user counts relative to their bigger offerings. Reader was a huge exception, though its closing was more of a migration (to Google+) than a shutdown and it was done under the pretense of moving people to G+.

the_arun 9y ago

Do we have something similar from AWS?

Boothroid 9y ago

Exactly what I thought. Why would you choose to build anything sizeable on something that could be shut down?