8 ms·

Prisons like that are only possible in countries with a high percentage of tax paying citizens as is the case in Norway. Here in Africa there is simply no money

Prisons like that are only possible in countries with a high percentage of tax paying citizens as is the case in Norway. Here in Africa there is simply no money for that.

b0rsuk 9y ago
I don't mean to sound patronizing and teach you about your own continent, but I heard the main problem with Africa is not lack of money. It's corruption. Africa has lots of space and natural resources. Those resources are mined, extracted and sold but profits go to a small caste of wealthy warlords and/or corrupt leaders. And yes the climate is harsh. Especially the heat literally makes thinking hard. There was a study about government clerks in USA, their work effectiveness shot up by 20% once they got air conditioning. In a way Africa is similar to Russian Federation. Both are vast, both have bad climate and both have lots of natural resources. Both are hamstrung by corruption.
- nerdponx 9y ago
  It's like people didn't read your disclaimer before downvoting. This indeed is the stereotype we hear about Africa (and it's certainly true in the USA where the stereotype flourishes). I would love to see some of this information confirmed or repudiated.
  - tyingq 9y ago
    Transparency.org has a methodology for measuring it by country. Heat map at the top, but you can find the detailed stats too. https://www.transparency.org/news/feature/corruption_perceptions_index_2016 https://www.transparency.org/news/feature/corruption_percept...
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - matt4077 9y ago
    You can't just add a disclaimer to absolve yourself of what you're about to say.
- rrauenza 9y ago
  Do you have a better pointer to that study about air conditioning? I'd like to read more.
  - b0rsuk 9y ago
    This is a better pointer (not necessarily a good one, but it makes it easier to google for): http://www.bbc.com/news/business-39735802 http://www.bbc.com/news/business-39735802 (The article was linked from Hacker News). From the article: '''The boom in air conditioning is good news for many reasons. Studies show that it lowers mortality during heat waves. Heat makes prison inmates fractious - air conditioning pays for itself by reducing fights. When the temperature exceeds 21C or 22C in exam halls, students start to score lower in maths tests. In offices, air conditioning makes us more productive: according to one early study, it made US government typists do 24% more work. Economists have since confirmed that relationship between productivity and keeping cool.'''
- marcosdumay 9y ago
  Natural resources that can be mined do not make a country rich (not anymore). Fertile land and energy generation capacity help, but what does really make a difference is a universal and equal rule of law. That idea that there isn't enough money for improving the justice system is self defeating in way too many ways.
- sangnoir 9y ago
  > I don't mean to sound patronizing and teach you about your own continent Thanks for your self-awareness, you are mostly wrong. It's not entirely your fault though, since gp generalized by saying "here in Africa" as if 1 billion people in 54 countries are a single amorphous blob. > Those resources are mined, extracted and sold but profits go to a small caste of wealthy warlords and/or corrupt leaders. There are probably less than 20 "warlords" in only 2-3 countries out of a billion Africans, and they likely control a region less than 1% of the total landmass. You are right there are corrupt leaders, but most of the profits do not go to them (as they are small-fry); they go to Western (or Chinese) multinationals, and perhaps even to your retirement fund. > And yes the climate is harsh. Especially the heat literally makes thinking hard. You are overgeneralizing to the point of being wrong - you probably are thinking of the Sahara. I have no idea where this "Africa is hot" trope originates, but most of sub-saharan africa has moderate temperatures[1]. Some regions receive snow every winter[2] > In a way Africa is similar to Russian Federation. In a way, Africa is dissimilar to the Russian Federation. It's 54 countries, has 2000 languages and is far larger. Larger than China, India, US, and most of Europe - combined![3] edit: more ranting I am continually surprised by HNers commenting authoritatively on Africa without first interrogating the source of their knowledge. Imagine a guy in Italy declaring all that's wrong with Silicon Valley based on what they've heard in the news and seen in pity-party ads by SV NGOs. "It's the existential fear of earthquakes that makes them short-sighted. The gentrification is real bad too" 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sub-Saharan_Africa#/media/File:Africa_map_of_K%C3%B6ppen_climate_classification.svg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sub-Saharan_Africa#/media/File... 2. https://www.ceres.org.za/see-do/winter-snow.html https://www.ceres.org.za/see-do/winter-snow.html 3. https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/africa-is-way-bigger-than-you-think/ https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/africa-is-...
  - gspetr 9y ago
    > I have no idea where this "Africa is hot" trope originates More than 25 percent of Africa is desert. Sahara is not the only desert in Africa. Checked the forecasts of 10 largest cities in Africa, lowest avg. daily temperatures in Jan/July in Celsius. Lagos: 30/26 Kinshasa: 27/29 Cairo: 18/34 Johannesburg: 24/14 Khartoum: 29/35 Dar es Salaam: 30/24 Alexandria: 16/26 Abidjan: 29/25 Algiers: 13/28 Kano: 21/26 The 4 sub-20 cities are either coastal cities or very close to the coast, those away from seas/oceans are what can be accurately described as "hot". > most of sub-saharan africa has moderate temperatures That climate map is deceptive. It may lead you to believe that "blue" areas are very cool, yet Kinshasa is in Congo, the country with the most blue/deep blue color on that climate map. Kindu, a 172 000 town closest to the deep blue area on that map is 24/28, not the coolest place on Earth.
vidarh 9y ago
Why do you assume they'll be more expensive? Not least because reduced reincarceration rates translates to fewer people in prison where they cost the state a lot of money, when they could be out and participating in growing the economy.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

Prisons like that are only possible in countries with a high percentage of tax paying citizens as is the case in Norway. Here in Africa there is simply no money for that.

b0rsuk 9y ago

I don't mean to sound patronizing and teach you about your own continent, but I heard the main problem with Africa is not lack of money. It's corruption. Africa has lots of space and natural resources. Those resources are mined, extracted and sold but profits go to a small caste of wealthy warlords and/or corrupt leaders. And yes the climate is harsh. Especially the heat literally makes thinking hard. There was a study about government clerks in USA, their work effectiveness shot up by 20% once they got air conditioning. In a way Africa is similar to Russian Federation. Both are vast, both have bad climate and both have lots of natural resources. Both are hamstrung by corruption.

nerdponx 9y ago
It's like people didn't read your disclaimer before downvoting. This indeed is the stereotype we hear about Africa (and it's certainly true in the USA where the stereotype flourishes). I would love to see some of this information confirmed or repudiated.
- tyingq 9y ago
  Transparency.org has a methodology for measuring it by country. Heat map at the top, but you can find the detailed stats too. https://www.transparency.org/news/feature/corruption_perceptions_index_2016 https://www.transparency.org/news/feature/corruption_percept...
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- matt4077 9y ago
  You can't just add a disclaimer to absolve yourself of what you're about to say.
rrauenza 9y ago
Do you have a better pointer to that study about air conditioning? I'd like to read more.
- b0rsuk 9y ago
  This is a better pointer (not necessarily a good one, but it makes it easier to google for): http://www.bbc.com/news/business-39735802 http://www.bbc.com/news/business-39735802 (The article was linked from Hacker News). From the article: '''The boom in air conditioning is good news for many reasons. Studies show that it lowers mortality during heat waves. Heat makes prison inmates fractious - air conditioning pays for itself by reducing fights. When the temperature exceeds 21C or 22C in exam halls, students start to score lower in maths tests. In offices, air conditioning makes us more productive: according to one early study, it made US government typists do 24% more work. Economists have since confirmed that relationship between productivity and keeping cool.'''
marcosdumay 9y ago
Natural resources that can be mined do not make a country rich (not anymore). Fertile land and energy generation capacity help, but what does really make a difference is a universal and equal rule of law. That idea that there isn't enough money for improving the justice system is self defeating in way too many ways.
sangnoir 9y ago
> I don't mean to sound patronizing and teach you about your own continent Thanks for your self-awareness, you are mostly wrong. It's not entirely your fault though, since gp generalized by saying "here in Africa" as if 1 billion people in 54 countries are a single amorphous blob. > Those resources are mined, extracted and sold but profits go to a small caste of wealthy warlords and/or corrupt leaders. There are probably less than 20 "warlords" in only 2-3 countries out of a billion Africans, and they likely control a region less than 1% of the total landmass. You are right there are corrupt leaders, but most of the profits do not go to them (as they are small-fry); they go to Western (or Chinese) multinationals, and perhaps even to your retirement fund. > And yes the climate is harsh. Especially the heat literally makes thinking hard. You are overgeneralizing to the point of being wrong - you probably are thinking of the Sahara. I have no idea where this "Africa is hot" trope originates, but most of sub-saharan africa has moderate temperatures[1]. Some regions receive snow every winter[2] > In a way Africa is similar to Russian Federation. In a way, Africa is dissimilar to the Russian Federation. It's 54 countries, has 2000 languages and is far larger. Larger than China, India, US, and most of Europe - combined![3] edit: more ranting I am continually surprised by HNers commenting authoritatively on Africa without first interrogating the source of their knowledge. Imagine a guy in Italy declaring all that's wrong with Silicon Valley based on what they've heard in the news and seen in pity-party ads by SV NGOs. "It's the existential fear of earthquakes that makes them short-sighted. The gentrification is real bad too" 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sub-Saharan_Africa#/media/File:Africa_map_of_K%C3%B6ppen_climate_classification.svg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sub-Saharan_Africa#/media/File... 2. https://www.ceres.org.za/see-do/winter-snow.html https://www.ceres.org.za/see-do/winter-snow.html 3. https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/africa-is-way-bigger-than-you-think/ https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/africa-is-...
- gspetr 9y ago
  > I have no idea where this "Africa is hot" trope originates More than 25 percent of Africa is desert. Sahara is not the only desert in Africa. Checked the forecasts of 10 largest cities in Africa, lowest avg. daily temperatures in Jan/July in Celsius. Lagos: 30/26 Kinshasa: 27/29 Cairo: 18/34 Johannesburg: 24/14 Khartoum: 29/35 Dar es Salaam: 30/24 Alexandria: 16/26 Abidjan: 29/25 Algiers: 13/28 Kano: 21/26 The 4 sub-20 cities are either coastal cities or very close to the coast, those away from seas/oceans are what can be accurately described as "hot". > most of sub-saharan africa has moderate temperatures That climate map is deceptive. It may lead you to believe that "blue" areas are very cool, yet Kinshasa is in Congo, the country with the most blue/deep blue color on that climate map. Kindu, a 172 000 town closest to the deep blue area on that map is 24/28, not the coolest place on Earth.

vidarh 9y ago

Why do you assume they'll be more expensive? Not least because reduced reincarceration rates translates to fewer people in prison where they cost the state a lot of money, when they could be out and participating in growing the economy.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]