6 ms·

Slightly OT: Living in a capital/big city is tough: - High rents, even in Berlin nowadays - There are more options but also much more competition for finding

Slightly OT: Living in a capital/big city is tough: - High rents, even in Berlin nowadays - There are more options but also much more competition for finding the right accommodation, job and spouse - In particular, finding your long-term partner can be a huge struggle in a big city in times of Tinder where nobody is committed anymore For some the solution is just to escape, avoid the challenge and call it nomad life (this is my feeling when I read such stories, maybe I am wrong). However, once they have kids, they have to settle and are back to square one.

jlebrech 9y ago
If you can convince an employer to let you work remotely and maybe let you fly in for monthly meetings you could move to a satellite city that has cheaper rent
simonbarker87 9y ago
If they have kids, the types of people who choose the nomadic lifestyle are probably more likely to question norms and pre-determined life choices, therefore less likely to have kids.
phillc73 9y ago
> However, once they have kids, they have to settle and are back to square one. I don't necessarily think it's back to square one. One doesn't have to settle in a big city. I moved out of London when my first child was due. We moved to a mid-sized (250k population) European city. I was able to find work, in an unrelated field to my previous experience but still using similar technical and management skills. The remuneration is less than I was earning in London, but the cost of living is significantly lower too. This was a lifestyle choice and the environment is much better, in my view, for raising children. Only my view of course, but in this case "better" means things like more green space, less pollution, less crime etc. It's not been 100% plain sailing. I have had to overcome a language barrier (not fully achieved that). I do feel culturally adrift sometimes. And Brexit seems to be trying to screw everything up. However, I still don't feel like I'm back to square one.
- hycaria 9y ago
  Don't you worry about the objectively lower education for your children there ? As much as I dislike cities, I can't imagine raising children somewhere else. Education, culture and network potential (through friends) is just not the same.
  - cyphar 9y ago
    There are many "mid-sized European cities" that have better education than London. Most of Estonia is an obvious example. And a city of 250k people is still large enough in my book to allow for a large enough pool for networking.
  - jakobegger 9y ago
    He said he moved to a mid sized city with 250000 people — I expect that most European cities of that size have decent public schools. Even a lot of small cities often have a good school. And even if that‘s not the case, in most places your kids can just take the bus to a school in the next city.
  - yakshaving_jgt 9y ago
    What makes you think London is at the forefront of educational standards? (I'm originally from London, and I also live in a smaller European city).
  - mcjiggerlog 9y ago
    As someone from the UK, this is surprising. In the UK the worst schools are generally in cities, and much better in smaller towns.
    - jbb67 9y ago
      I was going to add this. Education for possibly future children is one reason why I would move _out_ of London
      - jarvist 9y ago
tonyedgecombe 9y ago
You can do kids on a budget, plenty of people do.
- kbart 9y ago
  In most European countries your children would be taken away by the responsible institutions if you tried to raise them in a trailer.
  - madeofpalk 9y ago
    I feel like there's a middle ground though between spending lots of money raising kids in a London penthouse, and raising them in a van.
    - jlebrech 9y ago
      manchester council house. if you have children you'll get the house.
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
- unixhero 9y ago
  Yeah. That happened to me. Cannot recommend this. AT ALL.
  - jlebrech 9y ago
    you have to home school to be on budget, otherwise they come home from school wanting new things. which also means your partner cannot have a full time job or has to work remote too. you could start a remote business and make the hours longer allowing for kid related interruptions.
    - tonyedgecombe 9y ago
      otherwise they come home from school wanting new things Indulging them is probably the worst thing you can do, just say no.
teekert 9y ago
First: Not everyone wants or can have children. Second: You may be back at geographical square one but you have picked up a lot of baggage in the form of knowledge and emotions that probably changed you (hopefully for the better, I'm betting it does) forever. Also, this life style is nice for getting to know yourself, what do you really want? Maybe you thought you were a city dweller but now you know you feel better closer to nature. You also learn that you don't need much as a human, that is a very comforting though that can get you through difficult times. Changing your lifestyle may not always be pleasant (at first) but you learn about yourself. For example, I though I was a real backpacker, turns out I get very stressed when I have to get in random taxis and I convince myself almost everyone wants to screw me (in the bad way) and I have constant inner dialogue about why I would care about being screwed for a couple of euros. Now I plan thing differently, maybe I someday really learn to relax. But it won't be by sitting at home, I know that for sure. For now, I have kids and already learn that I don't like my life style to adventurous (maybe I'm not even that adventurous without kids), and I'm ok with that... even though that took some time to accept.
- earlybike 9y ago
  Maybe you are right, maybe not. I just think those stories where people worship their nomad life represent not the entire truth. It's not because nomad life is so great, often it's because they struggled because--again--life in developed areas is tough and so they opted for the easier way. Moreover, those have still some home base in an developed country, a back door where they can always settle again, so it's not really nomad, it's just a long vacation labeled as something adventurous. For us from developed countries, it's so easy to take our backpack and travel dozens of countries and just spent a fraction of what we would spent in NY, London or Berlin. You know it's really nothing special or something people should admire. Everyone from a developed country can do this. But nobody from not so developed countries could and want to do this. I personally would miss a goal and again the challenge. I can just buy a ticket in 5 minutes and go, find some remote work and live for peanuts. Where is the problem, everyone can do this There is no risk and no goal. And because your FB friends got tired of all your useless and boring nomad posts you need to write now public blog posts and spam social news sites telling people that what you do is great justifying your goal-less endeavour to yourself. So, another popular reason of being a 'nomad' might be: I am struggling with the high competition in my current environment, want to save money or spent a fraction in an underdeveloped country and live like a king. But not like I want to know who I am (maybe they know it afterwards but I think it's rather unrelated).
jlebrech 9y ago
the only way to find a "long term partner" is to start a business, sex and children is no longer a partnership thing.
pdimitar 9y ago
> competition for ... spouse > In particular, finding your long-term partner can be a huge struggle in a big city in times of Tinder where nobody is committed anymore You're projecting here -- the article never mentioned anything related to a partner. Also, wait what? COMPETITION for a spouse? If you look at your desired gender that way, I think it might actually do you good to live as a nomad for a while. "Nobody is committed anymore" -- change your social circles. Go attend local events related to your work and hobby. Go hold a lecture somewhere and have drinks with a few of the studens. You can do a heckload of things to change your environment even without moving away from the city. You sound bitter, you need to work on some change in your life.
- earlybike 9y ago
  Think you misunderstood. My message was that people who do this nomad thing are doing this because they struggle with city-life and my bullets were examples why they might struggle. I just said finding long-term relationships got harder because of Tinder and the current zeitgeist. I didn't say that I struggle: I didn't bail out and went the nomad route. I know that it's tough but once you got used to it, you learn, adapt and improve.
  - pdimitar 9y ago
    Thank you. I still think "Tinder and the current zeitgeist" is a status quo isolated to certain circles (although big ones). There are still tons of people out there who bond and click pretty naturally. I for one am not very happy in my current city anymore but that might be because of shitty rented flats. Currently actively seeking my own place but my internal voices never give me a moment's peace because I think I want to live by the sea, which is practically impossible in my country because the "cities" there are awfully small, boring, and have mediocre Internet. Oh well.
richardknop 9y ago
Just my two cents but there are a lot of people who don't have problem with competition in these big cities (can outcompete majority of people and are top 1% earners in NYC/SF/London etc) but they don't find the office/corporate/busy life fulfilling so they decide to go and travel around or work remotely for few years. I know couple of people like that. Just to make a point your argument about these people trying to escape because they can't make it in a big city is not necessarily true. At least not universally true, there might be people that fit your description.

jlebrech 9y ago

If you can convince an employer to let you work remotely and maybe let you fly in for monthly meetings you could move to a satellite city that has cheaper rent

simonbarker87 9y ago

If they have kids, the types of people who choose the nomadic lifestyle are probably more likely to question norms and pre-determined life choices, therefore less likely to have kids.

phillc73 9y ago

> However, once they have kids, they have to settle and are back to square one. I don't necessarily think it's back to square one. One doesn't have to settle in a big city. I moved out of London when my first child was due. We moved to a mid-sized (250k population) European city. I was able to find work, in an unrelated field to my previous experience but still using similar technical and management skills. The remuneration is less than I was earning in London, but the cost of living is significantly lower too. This was a lifestyle choice and the environment is much better, in my view, for raising children. Only my view of course, but in this case "better" means things like more green space, less pollution, less crime etc. It's not been 100% plain sailing. I have had to overcome a language barrier (not fully achieved that). I do feel culturally adrift sometimes. And Brexit seems to be trying to screw everything up. However, I still don't feel like I'm back to square one.

hycaria 9y ago
Don't you worry about the objectively lower education for your children there ? As much as I dislike cities, I can't imagine raising children somewhere else. Education, culture and network potential (through friends) is just not the same.
- cyphar 9y ago
  There are many "mid-sized European cities" that have better education than London. Most of Estonia is an obvious example. And a city of 250k people is still large enough in my book to allow for a large enough pool for networking.
- jakobegger 9y ago
  He said he moved to a mid sized city with 250000 people — I expect that most European cities of that size have decent public schools. Even a lot of small cities often have a good school. And even if that‘s not the case, in most places your kids can just take the bus to a school in the next city.
- yakshaving_jgt 9y ago
  What makes you think London is at the forefront of educational standards? (I'm originally from London, and I also live in a smaller European city).
- mcjiggerlog 9y ago
  As someone from the UK, this is surprising. In the UK the worst schools are generally in cities, and much better in smaller towns.
  - jbb67 9y ago
    I was going to add this. Education for possibly future children is one reason why I would move _out_ of London
    - jarvist 9y ago

tonyedgecombe 9y ago

You can do kids on a budget, plenty of people do.

kbart 9y ago
In most European countries your children would be taken away by the responsible institutions if you tried to raise them in a trailer.
- madeofpalk 9y ago
  I feel like there's a middle ground though between spending lots of money raising kids in a London penthouse, and raising them in a van.
  - jlebrech 9y ago
    manchester council house. if you have children you'll get the house.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
unixhero 9y ago
Yeah. That happened to me. Cannot recommend this. AT ALL.
- jlebrech 9y ago
  you have to home school to be on budget, otherwise they come home from school wanting new things. which also means your partner cannot have a full time job or has to work remote too. you could start a remote business and make the hours longer allowing for kid related interruptions.
  - tonyedgecombe 9y ago
    otherwise they come home from school wanting new things Indulging them is probably the worst thing you can do, just say no.

teekert 9y ago

First: Not everyone wants or can have children. Second: You may be back at geographical square one but you have picked up a lot of baggage in the form of knowledge and emotions that probably changed you (hopefully for the better, I'm betting it does) forever. Also, this life style is nice for getting to know yourself, what do you really want? Maybe you thought you were a city dweller but now you know you feel better closer to nature. You also learn that you don't need much as a human, that is a very comforting though that can get you through difficult times. Changing your lifestyle may not always be pleasant (at first) but you learn about yourself. For example, I though I was a real backpacker, turns out I get very stressed when I have to get in random taxis and I convince myself almost everyone wants to screw me (in the bad way) and I have constant inner dialogue about why I would care about being screwed for a couple of euros. Now I plan thing differently, maybe I someday really learn to relax. But it won't be by sitting at home, I know that for sure. For now, I have kids and already learn that I don't like my life style to adventurous (maybe I'm not even that adventurous without kids), and I'm ok with that... even though that took some time to accept.

earlybike 9y ago
Maybe you are right, maybe not. I just think those stories where people worship their nomad life represent not the entire truth. It's not because nomad life is so great, often it's because they struggled because--again--life in developed areas is tough and so they opted for the easier way. Moreover, those have still some home base in an developed country, a back door where they can always settle again, so it's not really nomad, it's just a long vacation labeled as something adventurous. For us from developed countries, it's so easy to take our backpack and travel dozens of countries and just spent a fraction of what we would spent in NY, London or Berlin. You know it's really nothing special or something people should admire. Everyone from a developed country can do this. But nobody from not so developed countries could and want to do this. I personally would miss a goal and again the challenge. I can just buy a ticket in 5 minutes and go, find some remote work and live for peanuts. Where is the problem, everyone can do this There is no risk and no goal. And because your FB friends got tired of all your useless and boring nomad posts you need to write now public blog posts and spam social news sites telling people that what you do is great justifying your goal-less endeavour to yourself. So, another popular reason of being a 'nomad' might be: I am struggling with the high competition in my current environment, want to save money or spent a fraction in an underdeveloped country and live like a king. But not like I want to know who I am (maybe they know it afterwards but I think it's rather unrelated).

jlebrech 9y ago

the only way to find a "long term partner" is to start a business, sex and children is no longer a partnership thing.

pdimitar 9y ago

> competition for ... spouse > In particular, finding your long-term partner can be a huge struggle in a big city in times of Tinder where nobody is committed anymore You're projecting here -- the article never mentioned anything related to a partner. Also, wait what? COMPETITION for a spouse? If you look at your desired gender that way, I think it might actually do you good to live as a nomad for a while. "Nobody is committed anymore" -- change your social circles. Go attend local events related to your work and hobby. Go hold a lecture somewhere and have drinks with a few of the studens. You can do a heckload of things to change your environment even without moving away from the city. You sound bitter, you need to work on some change in your life.

earlybike 9y ago
Think you misunderstood. My message was that people who do this nomad thing are doing this because they struggle with city-life and my bullets were examples why they might struggle. I just said finding long-term relationships got harder because of Tinder and the current zeitgeist. I didn't say that I struggle: I didn't bail out and went the nomad route. I know that it's tough but once you got used to it, you learn, adapt and improve.
- pdimitar 9y ago
  Thank you. I still think "Tinder and the current zeitgeist" is a status quo isolated to certain circles (although big ones). There are still tons of people out there who bond and click pretty naturally. I for one am not very happy in my current city anymore but that might be because of shitty rented flats. Currently actively seeking my own place but my internal voices never give me a moment's peace because I think I want to live by the sea, which is practically impossible in my country because the "cities" there are awfully small, boring, and have mediocre Internet. Oh well.

richardknop 9y ago

Just my two cents but there are a lot of people who don't have problem with competition in these big cities (can outcompete majority of people and are top 1% earners in NYC/SF/London etc) but they don't find the office/corporate/busy life fulfilling so they decide to go and travel around or work remotely for few years. I know couple of people like that. Just to make a point your argument about these people trying to escape because they can't make it in a big city is not necessarily true. At least not universally true, there might be people that fit your description.