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There's a link at the bottom: https://www.debian.org/News/2017/20171007.en.html https://www.debian.org/News/2017/20171007.en.html

by jhasse 9y ago

jstimpfle 9y ago
I actually looked for a while there (even Ctrl+f'ed) but somehow missed it. My bad. Still it's more of a nuisance to most people and I don't like how the standard URL does not deliver the same page to all.
- chungy 9y ago
  That's how the web is supposed to work. If you prefer English versions of pages, go into your browser configuration and tell it to prefer English.
  - raimue 9y ago
    I usually prefer English for anything related to development, software engineering, and computers in general. I also run my user interface in English, as it is much easier to search for error messages that way. However, when visiting websites of local places such as restaurants, I prefer the German version and not the one in English meant for tourists. While third-party extensions allow to switch Accept-Language, it is not in the standard UI of modern browsers. For people like me, an advanced setting of Accept-Language per top-level domain would reduce the number of times I have to find the language switcher on the web page to a minimum.
    - fifnir 9y ago
      And it is even worse for expats. There's many sites that force the local language down your throat and it's sooooo annoying...
      - stephenr 9y ago
        Google is terrible for this. They haven't yet worked out that a thai ip !== ability to read thai.
  - jstimpfle 9y ago
    > That's how the web is supposed to work. Citation needed. I'm pretty certain there are many proponents for a rather tight mapping from URL to content. Just imagine how hard it is for a search engine to index websites that deliver content based on unpredictable (anything else than URL) input variables.
    - e12e 9y ago
      Eh, it really is how http is intended to work: https://www.w3.org/Protocols/rfc2616/rfc2616-sec14.html https://www.w3.org/Protocols/rfc2616/rfc2616-sec14.html It's no different (arguably a lot better) than cookies.
      - jstimpfle 9y ago
        Sure, I know Accept-Language, as should be pretty clear from the discussion. Are you implying that the web is supposed to provide a shitty user experience? In my opinion, there is very limited applicability of Accept-Language. Just because this header exists does not mean you need to make use of it at the slightest perceived opportunity (If all you have is a hammer...).
  - anc84 9y ago
    It is a bit more complicated but I can get if people whose first language is English and who are rarely exposed to other languages cannot understand the struggle. If I prefer to read English texts in their original form (because I understand it perfectly clear) but read texts in my native language in that original language, there is no single setting. It feels weird saying this, but it reeks of a very anglo-american worldview to have a single language preference.
    - majewsky 9y ago
      It's even worse than that. My primary criterion for whether I want English or German is not the language itself, but my expectation of the content being well-maintained. Translated versions are usually lagging behind a bit. On the Arch Linux wiki, I'll always use the English version. On my (German) university's website, I'd rather want the German version.
    - sangnoir 9y ago
      I think gp was being descriptive and not prescriptive - one preferred language is how the web works today (and I speak as a someone who is multilingual). > It feels weird saying this, but it reeks of a very anglo-american worldview to have a single language preference. This is a the browser-side problem[1], so perhaps the browsers authors have an anglo-american worldview? You could file a bug/feature request with your favourite open-source browser. Alternatively, an extension that selectively sends per-website "Accept-Language" headers would work - I haven't checked if one exists but it can be written in a weekend (not sure if Firefox new extension framework will allows messing with the headers). 1. Some sites work around this by allowing you to have a choose a language that overrides the one requested by the browser and persist this in a cookie or your profile. Defaulting to the language requested by the browser is a sane default compared the other alternatives (like Geo-IP look-ups: "Oh, I see you are visiting Germany. I will assume your browser requested English in error and will serve you the German version of the article instead")
      - rlpb 9y ago
        > This is a the browser-side problem... No, it sounds like a protocol problem to me. How do I state in an HTTP request: "I speak English and German; if you can serve both and the article was written in one and translated to the other, then give me the original please". That was a long sentence, but it wouldn't have been particularly hard to define well and put into the protocol when it was originally drafted. It's a bit late now, obviously. For example, one could define provenance of a translation much like NTP defines strata. Accept-Language could then have taken this into account.
  - dagw 9y ago
    I don't prefer English, I prefer the original, untranslated version of the site I actually tried visting.

There's a link at the bottom: https://www.debian.org/News/2017/20171007.en.html https://www.debian.org/News/2017/20171007.en.html

by jhasse 9y ago

There's a link at the bottom: https://www.debian.org/News/2017/20171007.en.html https://www.debian.org/News/2017/20171007.en.html

jstimpfle 9y ago

I actually looked for a while there (even Ctrl+f'ed) but somehow missed it. My bad. Still it's more of a nuisance to most people and I don't like how the standard URL does not deliver the same page to all.

chungy 9y ago
That's how the web is supposed to work. If you prefer English versions of pages, go into your browser configuration and tell it to prefer English.
- raimue 9y ago
  I usually prefer English for anything related to development, software engineering, and computers in general. I also run my user interface in English, as it is much easier to search for error messages that way. However, when visiting websites of local places such as restaurants, I prefer the German version and not the one in English meant for tourists. While third-party extensions allow to switch Accept-Language, it is not in the standard UI of modern browsers. For people like me, an advanced setting of Accept-Language per top-level domain would reduce the number of times I have to find the language switcher on the web page to a minimum.
  - fifnir 9y ago
    And it is even worse for expats. There's many sites that force the local language down your throat and it's sooooo annoying...
    - stephenr 9y ago
      Google is terrible for this. They haven't yet worked out that a thai ip !== ability to read thai.
- jstimpfle 9y ago
  > That's how the web is supposed to work. Citation needed. I'm pretty certain there are many proponents for a rather tight mapping from URL to content. Just imagine how hard it is for a search engine to index websites that deliver content based on unpredictable (anything else than URL) input variables.
  - e12e 9y ago
    Eh, it really is how http is intended to work: https://www.w3.org/Protocols/rfc2616/rfc2616-sec14.html https://www.w3.org/Protocols/rfc2616/rfc2616-sec14.html It's no different (arguably a lot better) than cookies.
    - jstimpfle 9y ago
      Sure, I know Accept-Language, as should be pretty clear from the discussion. Are you implying that the web is supposed to provide a shitty user experience? In my opinion, there is very limited applicability of Accept-Language. Just because this header exists does not mean you need to make use of it at the slightest perceived opportunity (If all you have is a hammer...).
- anc84 9y ago
  It is a bit more complicated but I can get if people whose first language is English and who are rarely exposed to other languages cannot understand the struggle. If I prefer to read English texts in their original form (because I understand it perfectly clear) but read texts in my native language in that original language, there is no single setting. It feels weird saying this, but it reeks of a very anglo-american worldview to have a single language preference.
  - majewsky 9y ago
    It's even worse than that. My primary criterion for whether I want English or German is not the language itself, but my expectation of the content being well-maintained. Translated versions are usually lagging behind a bit. On the Arch Linux wiki, I'll always use the English version. On my (German) university's website, I'd rather want the German version.
  - sangnoir 9y ago
    I think gp was being descriptive and not prescriptive - one preferred language is how the web works today (and I speak as a someone who is multilingual). > It feels weird saying this, but it reeks of a very anglo-american worldview to have a single language preference. This is a the browser-side problem[1], so perhaps the browsers authors have an anglo-american worldview? You could file a bug/feature request with your favourite open-source browser. Alternatively, an extension that selectively sends per-website "Accept-Language" headers would work - I haven't checked if one exists but it can be written in a weekend (not sure if Firefox new extension framework will allows messing with the headers). 1. Some sites work around this by allowing you to have a choose a language that overrides the one requested by the browser and persist this in a cookie or your profile. Defaulting to the language requested by the browser is a sane default compared the other alternatives (like Geo-IP look-ups: "Oh, I see you are visiting Germany. I will assume your browser requested English in error and will serve you the German version of the article instead")
    - rlpb 9y ago
      > This is a the browser-side problem... No, it sounds like a protocol problem to me. How do I state in an HTTP request: "I speak English and German; if you can serve both and the article was written in one and translated to the other, then give me the original please". That was a long sentence, but it wouldn't have been particularly hard to define well and put into the protocol when it was originally drafted. It's a bit late now, obviously. For example, one could define provenance of a translation much like NTP defines strata. Accept-Language could then have taken this into account.
- dagw 9y ago
  I don't prefer English, I prefer the original, untranslated version of the site I actually tried visting.