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And yet all the third world people flock here by the millions.

craftyguy 9y ago
Don't worry, it takes time for outsider peoples' perception of a place to change. Right now it's still largely an idealized "great country, with opportunities for all" to them.
- katastic 9y ago
  Or, perhaps, the insiders are the ones with the skewed perceptions since the majority of all of our rights are still intact. I mean, do you guys ever actually follow the end result of your logic? If the USA was as tyrannical as you think, you'd have to be completely insane to stay. Why do you have a death wish? GET OUT! RUN! They're coming for you! Before they read your e-mails and put your family in jail! Oh wait, that's insane. If the USA was as bad as you guys here think, then you wouldn't be so unabashedly criticizing the state. You'd be in jail, or terrified to speak up. Take a trip to China and see how far criticism of the state gets you. And further, are you REALLY suggesting that EVERY immigrant to the USA is too stupid or too uninformed to understand the state of our government? Has nobody here ever talked to someone who lived under a real tyrannical state? Or even... God forbid... googled for a video of an interview with one? Don't worry though. I'm sure this comment will be downvoted into oblivion to protect people's absurd notion that they're under constant threat. It's okay to believe the sky is falling, but it's not okay to suggest people's wild speculation and phobia might be just that... an irrational phobia. In four years, if Trump is voted out of the office, people will entirely forget all their panic and doom-and-gloom and move on to the next moral outrage. They won't sit there and think "Hmm, maybe I was wrong." They'll just move on to the next threat. They're addicted to fear.
  - alsetmusic 9y ago
    > If the USA was as tyrannical as you think, you'd have to be completely insane to stay. I wanted to leave the US during the Bush administration. It’s not easy to do. I would have to gain work in a foreign land in which I possessed valued trade skills, adapt to cultural changes, and build a new network in place of existing ties both socially and professionally. I might have give up my pets, acquire new furniture and amenities, and restart my career from a lower tier. I might have to consider regions with harsher climates than I would prefer. I might not be able to relocate with my spouse if she doesn’t want to, or can’t, do the same. In addition to all of this, there are actually only a handful of countries that would appeal to me (in terms of government and rights afforded to the people). I certainly wouldn't endure all of the above for a system that I found equally corrupt or with fewer protections for its citizens. > Don't worry though. I'm sure this comment will be downvoted into oblivion to protect people's absurd notion that they're under constant threat. Condescension does not bolster your arguments.
    - KekDemaga 9y ago
      >I wanted to leave the US during the Bush administration. It’s not easy to do. I would have to gain work in a foreign land in which I possessed valued trade skills, adapt to cultural changes, and build a new network in place of existing ties both socially and professionally. I might have give up my pets, acquire new furniture and amenities, and restart my career from a lower tier. I might have to consider regions with harsher climates than I would prefer. I might not be able to relocate with my spouse if she doesn’t want to, or can’t, do the same. Isn't the alternative a totalitarian banana republic in your view? Shouldn't these be minor inconveniences in comparison? Syrian refugees have similar concerns when they choose to leave after all, yet they seem to wish to leave and the American left chooses to stay. What is different if not the conditions of the country?
  - Clubber 9y ago
    >since the majority of all of our rights are still intact. It depends on your starting point. If you go back to pre-cold war, they certainly are not. If you go back to the turn of the century, we have even fewer rights. If you go back to the early 1800s, we have even fewer. >Has nobody here ever talked to someone who lived under a real tyrannical state? Or even... God forbid... googled for a video of an interview with one? I think that's a pretty low bar.
noja 9y ago
and everyone else is leaving or what?
evolve2k 9y ago
And every other rich first world nation.
- refurb 9y ago
  Nuh uh. About 13% of the world's adults -- or about 630 million people -- say they would like to leave their country and move somewhere else permanently. For roughly 138 million people, that somewhere else would be the U.S. -- the No. 1 desired destination for potential migrants. The U.K. is a distant second at ~40M.[1] [1]http://news.gallup.com/poll/161435/100-million-worldwide-dream-life.aspx http://news.gallup.com/poll/161435/100-million-worldwide-dre...
  - rahkiin 9y ago
    That is an article from 2013. Would anything have changed since, say, 20th of january 2017?
    - refurb 9y ago
      Maybe the number got bigger? We don't have data so who knows?
  - orf 9y ago
    Awesome, the country that built itself on the idea of being open to all the masses no matter their origin, attracts the masses. Who would have thought.
    - TheSpiceIsLife 9y ago
      It doesn't even though. 78% of people who want to move, want to move somewhere other than the USA.
      - adventured 9y ago
        The US is a mere 4.x% of the world's population. The fact that 22% of those people want to move to the US, is extraordinary.
Retric 9y ago
On net more people have moved from US to Mexico than Mexico to US over the last decade. So, YMMV.
- KGIII 9y ago
  That seems off. Do you have a citation? Is that counting only lawful immigration and how many of those where undocumented workers moving back and how many are counted that were legally forced to return to their country? It's actually not easy to get permanent resident visas in Mexico, which makes me think there is something amiss. They also really, really don't like immigration violations in Mexico. I'd be very interested in seeing the sources for this statistic.
  - Clubber 9y ago
    It's true. It's a result of the 2008 crash. Here's an article from 2009-2014. http://www.pewhispanic.org/2015/11/19/more-mexicans-leaving-than-coming-to-the-u-s/ http://www.pewhispanic.org/2015/11/19/more-mexicans-leaving-... Apparently it's still happening: https://www.pri.org/stories/2017-01-18/more-mexicans-are-crossing-border-leave-us-here-s-one-family-s-story https://www.pri.org/stories/2017-01-18/more-mexicans-are-cro...
    - KGIII 9y ago
      I don't doubt that it is true, I doubt that it is telling the whole story. Your links seem to indicate that I am right to be reserved in judgement. Undocumented workers going home or being forced to go home really isn't indicative of any great trend. When American citizens are moving to Mexico at a greater rate than those coming here, that'd be significant.
      - Clubber 9y ago
        Here's an article on legal immigration from 2013: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/22/world/americas/for-migrants-new-land-of-opportunity-is-mexico.html?_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/22/world/americas/for-migrant... ...leading to a historic milestone: more Americans have been added to the population of Mexico over the past few years than Mexicans have been added to the population of the United States, according to government data in both nations. The numbers in the article don't line up, or it isn't clear. Americans now make up more than three-quarters of Mexico’s roughly one million documented foreigners Indicates ~750K, then goes on to state the number of Americans legally living and working in Mexico grew to more than 70,000 in 2012

Don't worry, it takes time for outsider peoples' perception of a place to change. Right now it's still largely an idealized "great country, with opportunities for all" to them.

katastic 9y ago
Or, perhaps, the insiders are the ones with the skewed perceptions since the majority of all of our rights are still intact. I mean, do you guys ever actually follow the end result of your logic? If the USA was as tyrannical as you think, you'd have to be completely insane to stay. Why do you have a death wish? GET OUT! RUN! They're coming for you! Before they read your e-mails and put your family in jail! Oh wait, that's insane. If the USA was as bad as you guys here think, then you wouldn't be so unabashedly criticizing the state. You'd be in jail, or terrified to speak up. Take a trip to China and see how far criticism of the state gets you. And further, are you REALLY suggesting that EVERY immigrant to the USA is too stupid or too uninformed to understand the state of our government? Has nobody here ever talked to someone who lived under a real tyrannical state? Or even... God forbid... googled for a video of an interview with one? Don't worry though. I'm sure this comment will be downvoted into oblivion to protect people's absurd notion that they're under constant threat. It's okay to believe the sky is falling, but it's not okay to suggest people's wild speculation and phobia might be just that... an irrational phobia. In four years, if Trump is voted out of the office, people will entirely forget all their panic and doom-and-gloom and move on to the next moral outrage. They won't sit there and think "Hmm, maybe I was wrong." They'll just move on to the next threat. They're addicted to fear.
- alsetmusic 9y ago
  > If the USA was as tyrannical as you think, you'd have to be completely insane to stay. I wanted to leave the US during the Bush administration. It’s not easy to do. I would have to gain work in a foreign land in which I possessed valued trade skills, adapt to cultural changes, and build a new network in place of existing ties both socially and professionally. I might have give up my pets, acquire new furniture and amenities, and restart my career from a lower tier. I might have to consider regions with harsher climates than I would prefer. I might not be able to relocate with my spouse if she doesn’t want to, or can’t, do the same. In addition to all of this, there are actually only a handful of countries that would appeal to me (in terms of government and rights afforded to the people). I certainly wouldn't endure all of the above for a system that I found equally corrupt or with fewer protections for its citizens. > Don't worry though. I'm sure this comment will be downvoted into oblivion to protect people's absurd notion that they're under constant threat. Condescension does not bolster your arguments.
  - KekDemaga 9y ago
    >I wanted to leave the US during the Bush administration. It’s not easy to do. I would have to gain work in a foreign land in which I possessed valued trade skills, adapt to cultural changes, and build a new network in place of existing ties both socially and professionally. I might have give up my pets, acquire new furniture and amenities, and restart my career from a lower tier. I might have to consider regions with harsher climates than I would prefer. I might not be able to relocate with my spouse if she doesn’t want to, or can’t, do the same. Isn't the alternative a totalitarian banana republic in your view? Shouldn't these be minor inconveniences in comparison? Syrian refugees have similar concerns when they choose to leave after all, yet they seem to wish to leave and the American left chooses to stay. What is different if not the conditions of the country?
- Clubber 9y ago
  >since the majority of all of our rights are still intact. It depends on your starting point. If you go back to pre-cold war, they certainly are not. If you go back to the turn of the century, we have even fewer rights. If you go back to the early 1800s, we have even fewer. >Has nobody here ever talked to someone who lived under a real tyrannical state? Or even... God forbid... googled for a video of an interview with one? I think that's a pretty low bar.

noja 9y ago

and everyone else is leaving or what?

evolve2k 9y ago

And every other rich first world nation.

refurb 9y ago
Nuh uh. About 13% of the world's adults -- or about 630 million people -- say they would like to leave their country and move somewhere else permanently. For roughly 138 million people, that somewhere else would be the U.S. -- the No. 1 desired destination for potential migrants. The U.K. is a distant second at ~40M.[1] [1]http://news.gallup.com/poll/161435/100-million-worldwide-dream-life.aspx http://news.gallup.com/poll/161435/100-million-worldwide-dre...
- rahkiin 9y ago
  That is an article from 2013. Would anything have changed since, say, 20th of january 2017?
  - refurb 9y ago
    Maybe the number got bigger? We don't have data so who knows?
- orf 9y ago
  Awesome, the country that built itself on the idea of being open to all the masses no matter their origin, attracts the masses. Who would have thought.
  - TheSpiceIsLife 9y ago
    It doesn't even though. 78% of people who want to move, want to move somewhere other than the USA.
    - adventured 9y ago
      The US is a mere 4.x% of the world's population. The fact that 22% of those people want to move to the US, is extraordinary.

Retric 9y ago

On net more people have moved from US to Mexico than Mexico to US over the last decade. So, YMMV.

KGIII 9y ago
That seems off. Do you have a citation? Is that counting only lawful immigration and how many of those where undocumented workers moving back and how many are counted that were legally forced to return to their country? It's actually not easy to get permanent resident visas in Mexico, which makes me think there is something amiss. They also really, really don't like immigration violations in Mexico. I'd be very interested in seeing the sources for this statistic.
- Clubber 9y ago
  It's true. It's a result of the 2008 crash. Here's an article from 2009-2014. http://www.pewhispanic.org/2015/11/19/more-mexicans-leaving-than-coming-to-the-u-s/ http://www.pewhispanic.org/2015/11/19/more-mexicans-leaving-... Apparently it's still happening: https://www.pri.org/stories/2017-01-18/more-mexicans-are-crossing-border-leave-us-here-s-one-family-s-story https://www.pri.org/stories/2017-01-18/more-mexicans-are-cro...
  - KGIII 9y ago
    I don't doubt that it is true, I doubt that it is telling the whole story. Your links seem to indicate that I am right to be reserved in judgement. Undocumented workers going home or being forced to go home really isn't indicative of any great trend. When American citizens are moving to Mexico at a greater rate than those coming here, that'd be significant.
    - Clubber 9y ago
      Here's an article on legal immigration from 2013: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/22/world/americas/for-migrants-new-land-of-opportunity-is-mexico.html?_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/22/world/americas/for-migrant... ...leading to a historic milestone: more Americans have been added to the population of Mexico over the past few years than Mexicans have been added to the population of the United States, according to government data in both nations. The numbers in the article don't line up, or it isn't clear. Americans now make up more than three-quarters of Mexico’s roughly one million documented foreigners Indicates ~750K, then goes on to state the number of Americans legally living and working in Mexico grew to more than 70,000 in 2012