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In the United States, the problem started with the war on drugs. The increasing privatization of the prison system made crime a business opportunity, which in

In the United States, the problem started with the war on drugs. The increasing privatization of the prison system made crime a business opportunity, which in turn lead to more things being criminalized. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/54/US_incarceration_timeline-clean.svg/1000px-US_incarceration_timeline-clean.svg.png http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/54/US_... But that's not all; prison labor is now used as cheap labor to compete with foreign countries, instituting a new age of under-the-radar slavery. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwT6CisM0mU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwT6CisM0mU The more you look at this cyclic process, the more disturbing it becomes.

yummyfajitas 16y ago
Another major part of the problem is that we no longer institutionalize most of the mentally ill (also a phenomenon starting around 1960-70). Many of them become homeless, and a few commit crimes.
- nickpinkston 16y ago
  Wait - a "major problem" is that a "few commit crimes"? I think the real issue is that the US has some socio-economic issues that we've as yet let unresolved: drugs (as mentioned), policing strategy, judicial/legislative strategy, welfare, education, etc. I don't think institutionalization is a major contributor.
  - yummyfajitas 16y ago
    Just because a small portion of the mentally ill commit crimes does not mean that a small portion of crimes are committed by the mentally ill. A quick google search finds a source claiming that about 10-20% of the prison population (a few hundred thousand) are seriously mentally ill: http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/forensic-psych/content/article/10168/47631 http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/forensic-psych/content/artic...
    - jfarmer 16y ago
      Beyond that, the conditions in some prisoner (esp. California's) can lead to mental illness. Talk to someone who has been in AdSeg, as an example.
- jberryman 16y ago
  America has never had a working mental health infrastructure; we stopped institutionalizing people because American mental institutions in the 40s were about the most horrible things you can imagine: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=122017757 http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1220177... I think the history of our neglect as a society of the mentally ill has little to tell us about crime and a lot to tell us about the homeless underclass in America. To digress: I just visited DC again a couple weeks ago. You go in a public bathroom right outside the Washington Monument and there are big signs next to the sinks that say "NO BATHING". I felt ashamed.
  - pbhjpbhj 16y ago
    >there are big signs next to the sinks that say "NO BATHING". I felt ashamed. Sorry, I'm not clear what you're ashamed of? That there are people that would want to wash in the sinks or that they are not allowed to? I don't think it would be a fair description of all homeless people to say they belong to an underclass.
    - scrod 16y ago
      >Sorry, I'm not clear what you're ashamed of? It doesn't bother you to be a citizen of a country that has allowed so many people to lose their homes that bathing in a public restroom is now a nuisance frequent enough to warrant official signage?
  - Qz 16y ago
    I think the history of our neglect as a society of the mentally ill has little to tell us about crime That makes sense if you look at one as related directly to the other or vice versa (aka mostly not), but if you look at both as symptoms of a bigger issue then it becomes readily apparent that they are highly related: Americans don't want to deal with 'undesirables'. Lock em up or make them homeless, whatever, just as long as we don't have to deal with them.
scrod 16y ago
>But that's not all; prison labor is now used as cheap labor to compete with foreign countries, instituting a new age of under-the-radar slavery. Oh, don't worry, those countries are fighting back, too: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8677486.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8677486.stm Free the market, free the people, eh?
wazoox 16y ago
It's often admitted in Europe that jails are the US substitute for European social policies.
- sorbus 16y ago
  Admitted by Americans visiting Europe, or claimed by Europeans?
  - whichdokta 16y ago
    Certainly observed by this African watching both continents.
w00pla 16y ago
> But that's not all; prison labor is now used as cheap labor to compete with foreign countries, instituting a new age of under-the-radar slavery. This is BS IMHO. Would you rather see prisoners set free or do nothing all day? Do you really think that a person will come out of a 6 year prison sentence (without working a day) and then start working and be a productive member of society? In the old days in my country there was a sentence called "hard labour" - which meant that criminals got a shorter sentence and learned valuable life skills (if they were co-operative) or learned how to make big rocks smaller (if they were uncooperative).
- Ardit20 16y ago
  Why does this comment keep being downvoted? I think he is making a fine point, would you rather prisoners sit around do nothing all day, or are given some work to do which improves them and improves the country in a way paying back their dues. Seeing as there was this article which said that keeping busy makes us happy, the least the downvoters can do is state as to why prisoners should not be made to work? If you are going to compare prison with slavery, how about starting with the one thing they have in common, they both are denied their right to liberty!
  - blueben 16y ago
    If the point is to make the men work, then pay them a fair wage. Until then, no intellectually honest person can call it anything but slavery.
    - w00pla 16y ago
      > If the point is to make the men work, then pay them a fair wage. I agree they should be paid a fair wage. They should be given a bill for their housing and their debt to society and their victims which they can pay off with their wage. The vast majority of prisoners owe society (and their victims) more than they could ever hope to earn in a lifetime. The whole idea of being a prisoner is to take away rights of someone who have done harm to others. This is done by taking away his freedom (i.e. by locking him up in a prison cell), taking away his right to vote (in many countries) and removing his right to freedom of association. Locking a prisoner up is not the same as kidnapping (since you make false equivalences). Since a prisoner’s time is already wasted (by locking up in a cell), that time could just as well be used for something productive. --- You know what is slavery though? Forcing the taxpayer to pay for the housing and maintenance of a criminal. The taxpayer doesn’t have any say in the matter and doesn’t have a choice. Each person in jail had a choice.

yummyfajitas 16y ago

Another major part of the problem is that we no longer institutionalize most of the mentally ill (also a phenomenon starting around 1960-70). Many of them become homeless, and a few commit crimes.

nickpinkston 16y ago
Wait - a "major problem" is that a "few commit crimes"? I think the real issue is that the US has some socio-economic issues that we've as yet let unresolved: drugs (as mentioned), policing strategy, judicial/legislative strategy, welfare, education, etc. I don't think institutionalization is a major contributor.
- yummyfajitas 16y ago
  Just because a small portion of the mentally ill commit crimes does not mean that a small portion of crimes are committed by the mentally ill. A quick google search finds a source claiming that about 10-20% of the prison population (a few hundred thousand) are seriously mentally ill: http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/forensic-psych/content/article/10168/47631 http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/forensic-psych/content/artic...
  - jfarmer 16y ago
    Beyond that, the conditions in some prisoner (esp. California's) can lead to mental illness. Talk to someone who has been in AdSeg, as an example.
jberryman 16y ago
America has never had a working mental health infrastructure; we stopped institutionalizing people because American mental institutions in the 40s were about the most horrible things you can imagine: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=122017757 http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1220177... I think the history of our neglect as a society of the mentally ill has little to tell us about crime and a lot to tell us about the homeless underclass in America. To digress: I just visited DC again a couple weeks ago. You go in a public bathroom right outside the Washington Monument and there are big signs next to the sinks that say "NO BATHING". I felt ashamed.
- pbhjpbhj 16y ago
  >there are big signs next to the sinks that say "NO BATHING". I felt ashamed. Sorry, I'm not clear what you're ashamed of? That there are people that would want to wash in the sinks or that they are not allowed to? I don't think it would be a fair description of all homeless people to say they belong to an underclass.
  - scrod 16y ago
    >Sorry, I'm not clear what you're ashamed of? It doesn't bother you to be a citizen of a country that has allowed so many people to lose their homes that bathing in a public restroom is now a nuisance frequent enough to warrant official signage?
- Qz 16y ago
  I think the history of our neglect as a society of the mentally ill has little to tell us about crime That makes sense if you look at one as related directly to the other or vice versa (aka mostly not), but if you look at both as symptoms of a bigger issue then it becomes readily apparent that they are highly related: Americans don't want to deal with 'undesirables'. Lock em up or make them homeless, whatever, just as long as we don't have to deal with them.

scrod 16y ago

>But that's not all; prison labor is now used as cheap labor to compete with foreign countries, instituting a new age of under-the-radar slavery. Oh, don't worry, those countries are fighting back, too: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8677486.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8677486.stm Free the market, free the people, eh?

wazoox 16y ago

It's often admitted in Europe that jails are the US substitute for European social policies.

sorbus 16y ago
Admitted by Americans visiting Europe, or claimed by Europeans?
- whichdokta 16y ago
  Certainly observed by this African watching both continents.

w00pla 16y ago

> But that's not all; prison labor is now used as cheap labor to compete with foreign countries, instituting a new age of under-the-radar slavery. This is BS IMHO. Would you rather see prisoners set free or do nothing all day? Do you really think that a person will come out of a 6 year prison sentence (without working a day) and then start working and be a productive member of society? In the old days in my country there was a sentence called "hard labour" - which meant that criminals got a shorter sentence and learned valuable life skills (if they were co-operative) or learned how to make big rocks smaller (if they were uncooperative).

Ardit20 16y ago
Why does this comment keep being downvoted? I think he is making a fine point, would you rather prisoners sit around do nothing all day, or are given some work to do which improves them and improves the country in a way paying back their dues. Seeing as there was this article which said that keeping busy makes us happy, the least the downvoters can do is state as to why prisoners should not be made to work? If you are going to compare prison with slavery, how about starting with the one thing they have in common, they both are denied their right to liberty!
- blueben 16y ago
  If the point is to make the men work, then pay them a fair wage. Until then, no intellectually honest person can call it anything but slavery.
  - w00pla 16y ago
    > If the point is to make the men work, then pay them a fair wage. I agree they should be paid a fair wage. They should be given a bill for their housing and their debt to society and their victims which they can pay off with their wage. The vast majority of prisoners owe society (and their victims) more than they could ever hope to earn in a lifetime. The whole idea of being a prisoner is to take away rights of someone who have done harm to others. This is done by taking away his freedom (i.e. by locking him up in a prison cell), taking away his right to vote (in many countries) and removing his right to freedom of association. Locking a prisoner up is not the same as kidnapping (since you make false equivalences). Since a prisoner’s time is already wasted (by locking up in a cell), that time could just as well be used for something productive. --- You know what is slavery though? Forcing the taxpayer to pay for the housing and maintenance of a criminal. The taxpayer doesn’t have any say in the matter and doesn’t have a choice. Each person in jail had a choice.