11 ms·

Oh...shit. That is both stupefying and petrifying. More and more I feel that there is a new class war coming; and it is not rich vs poor so much as it is govern

Oh...shit. That is both stupefying and petrifying. More and more I feel that there is a new class war coming; and it is not rich vs poor so much as it is governments vs civilians. Really wondering whether this will be shot down or if other governments will follow suit down this road as quickly as possible. Instinct tells me the latter is more likely. I've not been on this Earth long, but where the fuck did all my freedoms go? It's like we're standing on a sandbar watching the tide erode our liberties from under our feet. And shit, it's the ocean. We can't do anything to save our little sandbar.

morogop 9y ago
They will be followed. In the US, this will be supported by "small government" Republicans, so long as they're promised tax cuts. There are already aspects of this happening, with Republicans and other so-called conservatives increasingly demanding support for governmental authority, and vilifying those who care about their personal freedom.
netsharc 9y ago
Government as a proxy for corporations. Even the "bastion of liberal democracy" the European Union (taking over from the USA) is run by lobbyists. Secret meetings to force TTIP, ministries of transports lobbying to keep lax emission testing rules so car manufacturers can cheat, the guy who was president of the tax haven of Luxembourg being president of the European Commission. Seems like we're returning to feudalism with the little people being serfs, while in the palaces the 1% enjoy their riches. Terror in Europe (and the export of fighters from that continent to the middle east) is borne out of little people not seeing any future and being easily influenced by talk of joining some "great" cause of Jihad...
- r00fus 9y ago
  Jihad or Nationalism. The centrists (e.g. May/Macron/Merkel) fear and yet benefit from both - they can sacrifice freedoms to sell corporatist agendas. Meanwhile populists across the spectrum are tarred and feathered as helping the extremists (or "not being strong enough against them").
KGIII 9y ago
I have watched ISIS recruitment videos. They have pretty catchy music and are well produced, actually. I've watched GPY stuff, older Taliban stuff, all that. I'm not even religious and it wasn't even scholarly. I was just curious about the debate and like to see things for myself. I'm not sure I'm going to do well in a dystopian future.p Anyhow, freedom is not something given once. It's something constantly defended. How you do that is up to you, I suppose.
rjeli 9y ago
This is why Americans have the 2nd amendment
- ykler 9y ago
  No, this is why we have the first amendment. The second amendment is crap. I have no very strong opinion on whether people should be allowed to have guns, but the issue is not very relevant. Governments will always have way more force than private individuals. The important thing is to contain that force. And it is a very bad thing if just looking at what extremists have to say can get you arrested.
  - mandelbrotwurst 9y ago
    It's possible that having even a small capacity to use force could create a deterrent effect against those who would otherwise harm you, even if they are stronger than you are. To give an extreme but not unprecedented example, if the government wants to wipe out all citizens of $ENEMY_TYPE_X, they might be at least slightly less willing to do so if the agents contracted to enter the homes of the citizens in question know that they are likely to face armed resistance. EDIT for clarity: I of course do not mean that any one individual would be able to defend their home against a powerful government dedicated to destroying them. I'm just saying that all else equal, a government considering whether to attempt to wipe out some particular group is more likely to think twice if there are likely to be costs involved in doing so.
    - TheSpiceIsLife 9y ago
      Nope. They'll just set up around the building, peer in through the windows with binoculars, and if you appear armed snipe you from afar. Regardless, they don't care: if you take out a few agents they'll just send in more.
      - mandelbrotwurst 9y ago
        I didn't say or imply that an individual person would be able to fend off a government dedicating its entire resources to invading their home.

morogop 9y ago

They will be followed. In the US, this will be supported by "small government" Republicans, so long as they're promised tax cuts. There are already aspects of this happening, with Republicans and other so-called conservatives increasingly demanding support for governmental authority, and vilifying those who care about their personal freedom.

netsharc 9y ago

Government as a proxy for corporations. Even the "bastion of liberal democracy" the European Union (taking over from the USA) is run by lobbyists. Secret meetings to force TTIP, ministries of transports lobbying to keep lax emission testing rules so car manufacturers can cheat, the guy who was president of the tax haven of Luxembourg being president of the European Commission. Seems like we're returning to feudalism with the little people being serfs, while in the palaces the 1% enjoy their riches. Terror in Europe (and the export of fighters from that continent to the middle east) is borne out of little people not seeing any future and being easily influenced by talk of joining some "great" cause of Jihad...

r00fus 9y ago
Jihad or Nationalism. The centrists (e.g. May/Macron/Merkel) fear and yet benefit from both - they can sacrifice freedoms to sell corporatist agendas. Meanwhile populists across the spectrum are tarred and feathered as helping the extremists (or "not being strong enough against them").

KGIII 9y ago

I have watched ISIS recruitment videos. They have pretty catchy music and are well produced, actually. I've watched GPY stuff, older Taliban stuff, all that. I'm not even religious and it wasn't even scholarly. I was just curious about the debate and like to see things for myself. I'm not sure I'm going to do well in a dystopian future.p Anyhow, freedom is not something given once. It's something constantly defended. How you do that is up to you, I suppose.

rjeli 9y ago

This is why Americans have the 2nd amendment

ykler 9y ago
No, this is why we have the first amendment. The second amendment is crap. I have no very strong opinion on whether people should be allowed to have guns, but the issue is not very relevant. Governments will always have way more force than private individuals. The important thing is to contain that force. And it is a very bad thing if just looking at what extremists have to say can get you arrested.
- mandelbrotwurst 9y ago
  It's possible that having even a small capacity to use force could create a deterrent effect against those who would otherwise harm you, even if they are stronger than you are. To give an extreme but not unprecedented example, if the government wants to wipe out all citizens of $ENEMY_TYPE_X, they might be at least slightly less willing to do so if the agents contracted to enter the homes of the citizens in question know that they are likely to face armed resistance. EDIT for clarity: I of course do not mean that any one individual would be able to defend their home against a powerful government dedicated to destroying them. I'm just saying that all else equal, a government considering whether to attempt to wipe out some particular group is more likely to think twice if there are likely to be costs involved in doing so.
  - TheSpiceIsLife 9y ago
    Nope. They'll just set up around the building, peer in through the windows with binoculars, and if you appear armed snipe you from afar. Regardless, they don't care: if you take out a few agents they'll just send in more.
    - mandelbrotwurst 9y ago
      I didn't say or imply that an individual person would be able to fend off a government dedicating its entire resources to invading their home.