5 ms·

I see this trainwreck going on in food, too. Like, Paleo and Keto are good things, they really are, I agree with what their tenants are. Together, it is simply

I see this trainwreck going on in food, too. Like, Paleo and Keto are good things, they really are, I agree with what their tenants are. Together, it is simply don't eat grains, don't eat refined sugars, don't eat legumes, don't eat shitty oils; eat meat, real vegs, some fruit, use coconut oil and olive oil and lard... but with 30g of carbs a day and a slant towards high fat. Where it goes wrong? The words Keto and Paleo on the product packaging (beyond the fact that "product packaging" usually means it isn't Paleo to begin with), and merely slapping the words on products skyrockets the price. The diets themselves aren't snake oil, but the bullshit peddlers showed up to derail Keto and Paleo for their own profit.

Angostura 9y ago
> The diets themselves aren't snake oil Except that there's no proper nutritional evidence that there is any problem at all with eating grains or legumes if you are a normal healthy person. I'm not sure there's any evidence that there's a problem with vegetable oils either. Bullshit is pervasive.
- canoebuilder 9y ago
  >* I'm not sure there's any evidence that there's a problem with vegetable oils either.* https://duckduckgo.com/?q=pufa+cancer&t=h_&ia=web https://duckduckgo.com/?q=pufa+cancer&t=h_&ia=web
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
- DiabloD3 9y ago
  Except you're going about it the wrong way. We've eaten simple unrefined foods for as long as society has existed. For example, what only existed recently has been highly refined seed oils like corn, rapeseed, and canola. It is up to them to prove that they are safe for human consumption, something that they have been unable to do. However, to continue the example, those types of oils are high in PUFAs (and specifically, high in Omega 6), and this has been linked to basically every modern first world disease, including diabetes and cancer. The same applies to grains: cereals such as wheat hybridize in ways that are unusual. There is probably a level of certain chemicals (such as, but not limited to, prolamins, agglutinin, and amylase trypsin inhibitors) that are safe for human consumption, but the hybridization of these grasses for modern commercial production have greatly increased the amount of these chemicals in a given food product. Just like the oils, these hybrids are a recent invention and no science was done before they were pushed into commercial production to prove if they are safe. Unfortunately, more and more scientific papers are coming out that they are not safe and cannot be made safe. I've taken the logical and scientific choice to stop consuming these foods. During this time, although my caloric intake has not varied enough to explain the results, I lost around 130 pounds in a year: the only change I made was removing foods that are on the list.
  - dagss 9y ago
    Look: Feeding the world on Paleo diet is impossible (right now ... with increased use of insects and sustainable ocean farming not based on rainforest soy that may change). When one choice is to recommend a diet that will significantly increase green house gas emissions and yet still be totally unavailable to poor people; and another diet which might be marginally worse, then yes the burden of proof should be on the former. Everyone switching to Paleo diet would be disastrous; and people HAVE attained 100+ years on grain diets, i.e. it is a matter of microoptimization not outright toxicity. (Also you say "only change you made", but did you really measure calorie intake exactly before the change of diet? A lot of diets lead to weight reduction simply due to people starting to think about what they eat and calculate calories...the act of thinking about what you eat and counting calories itself will reduce calorie intake and increase healthiness of food consumed, leaving most people with no comparison point, hence a lot of hyped diets. Did you try using as much mental energy on a healthy diet containing grains as a comparisonr point? Otherwise you do not even have an anecdote).
    - DiabloD3 9y ago
      Except none of that's true. We already grow sufficient amounts of common vegetables like carrots, and the members of the cabbage family, and potatoes, and onions, and garlic, and whatever else. Corn and rice and cereal grains are extremely poor uses of the farm land we have. They are nutrient poor, and the last thing we need to be feeding to poor/starving people is nutrient poor foods. Most of the reason we have starving people in the world is mismanagement of what we already grow, not that we don't grow enough. I also don't care what the statistical outliers do. The average American lives far shorter lives than our medical and technological prowess would otherwise indicate.
      - dagss 9y ago
        Sorry, I thought I was reading about the kind of diet where a potato would be the worst thing ever. I.e. avoid carbohydrates. Apologies. I agree that we grow more than enough food today but we also do not live sustainably, we must reduce resource consumption or hit the wall at some point. At some point there is no more rainforest to burn.
- TACIXAT 9y ago
  I'm a celiac and I legitimately believe a lot more people have problems with food than they realize. I'm guessing most people come across one of these diets and end up feeling better than they ever have. It was the same for my dad with the Atkin's Diet. The idea of cutting out carbs was revolutionary to him (it turned out to just be wheat) and solved a lot of his issues. You see the same thing with MSG. I get a sinus headache from it. Many people have no issue with it. From this, you see people claiming online that someone having a problem with it is imagining it, or that it's just a rumor. Doing an elimination diet changed my life. Every single one of my medical issues (daily sinus issues, digestion issues) was caused by things I was eating. I'm now a huge advocate for people experimenting with food and cutting certain things out. If you consistently feel shitty, it might be the best decision you ever make.
ashtonplayton 9y ago
But ultimately, dogs and humans are innately different. I don't think diet is a good comparison IMO. Just take a look here, you can see that some human foods can be rather dangerous to dogs (https://www.thegoodypet.com/bad-toxic-foods-for-dogs https://www.thegoodypet.com/bad-toxic-foods-for-dogs)
rjsw 9y ago
I think you mean "tenets" not "tenants".
- DiabloD3 9y ago
  Auto-correct strikes again, and too late to go back and fix it.
dominotw 9y ago
>don't eat grains, don't eat refined sugars, don't eat legumes I eat brownrice with lentils (daal) and chickpeas with yogurt, almost every other day :\. why are these bad?
dbingham 9y ago
The diets themselves are minor snake oil. When you look at the full evidence, few of the various diets really have any benefit over the others: https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/03/science-compared-every-diet-and-the-winner-is-real-food/284595/ https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/03/science-c... When you actually look at the science, the best advice seems to still be Michael Pollan's mantra: "Eat [real] food. Mostly plants. Not too much. [And get good exercise.]"

Angostura 9y ago

> The diets themselves aren't snake oil Except that there's no proper nutritional evidence that there is any problem at all with eating grains or legumes if you are a normal healthy person. I'm not sure there's any evidence that there's a problem with vegetable oils either. Bullshit is pervasive.

canoebuilder 9y ago
>* I'm not sure there's any evidence that there's a problem with vegetable oils either.* https://duckduckgo.com/?q=pufa+cancer&t=h_&ia=web https://duckduckgo.com/?q=pufa+cancer&t=h_&ia=web
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
DiabloD3 9y ago
Except you're going about it the wrong way. We've eaten simple unrefined foods for as long as society has existed. For example, what only existed recently has been highly refined seed oils like corn, rapeseed, and canola. It is up to them to prove that they are safe for human consumption, something that they have been unable to do. However, to continue the example, those types of oils are high in PUFAs (and specifically, high in Omega 6), and this has been linked to basically every modern first world disease, including diabetes and cancer. The same applies to grains: cereals such as wheat hybridize in ways that are unusual. There is probably a level of certain chemicals (such as, but not limited to, prolamins, agglutinin, and amylase trypsin inhibitors) that are safe for human consumption, but the hybridization of these grasses for modern commercial production have greatly increased the amount of these chemicals in a given food product. Just like the oils, these hybrids are a recent invention and no science was done before they were pushed into commercial production to prove if they are safe. Unfortunately, more and more scientific papers are coming out that they are not safe and cannot be made safe. I've taken the logical and scientific choice to stop consuming these foods. During this time, although my caloric intake has not varied enough to explain the results, I lost around 130 pounds in a year: the only change I made was removing foods that are on the list.
- dagss 9y ago
  Look: Feeding the world on Paleo diet is impossible (right now ... with increased use of insects and sustainable ocean farming not based on rainforest soy that may change). When one choice is to recommend a diet that will significantly increase green house gas emissions and yet still be totally unavailable to poor people; and another diet which might be marginally worse, then yes the burden of proof should be on the former. Everyone switching to Paleo diet would be disastrous; and people HAVE attained 100+ years on grain diets, i.e. it is a matter of microoptimization not outright toxicity. (Also you say "only change you made", but did you really measure calorie intake exactly before the change of diet? A lot of diets lead to weight reduction simply due to people starting to think about what they eat and calculate calories...the act of thinking about what you eat and counting calories itself will reduce calorie intake and increase healthiness of food consumed, leaving most people with no comparison point, hence a lot of hyped diets. Did you try using as much mental energy on a healthy diet containing grains as a comparisonr point? Otherwise you do not even have an anecdote).
  - DiabloD3 9y ago
    Except none of that's true. We already grow sufficient amounts of common vegetables like carrots, and the members of the cabbage family, and potatoes, and onions, and garlic, and whatever else. Corn and rice and cereal grains are extremely poor uses of the farm land we have. They are nutrient poor, and the last thing we need to be feeding to poor/starving people is nutrient poor foods. Most of the reason we have starving people in the world is mismanagement of what we already grow, not that we don't grow enough. I also don't care what the statistical outliers do. The average American lives far shorter lives than our medical and technological prowess would otherwise indicate.
    - dagss 9y ago
      Sorry, I thought I was reading about the kind of diet where a potato would be the worst thing ever. I.e. avoid carbohydrates. Apologies. I agree that we grow more than enough food today but we also do not live sustainably, we must reduce resource consumption or hit the wall at some point. At some point there is no more rainforest to burn.
TACIXAT 9y ago
I'm a celiac and I legitimately believe a lot more people have problems with food than they realize. I'm guessing most people come across one of these diets and end up feeling better than they ever have. It was the same for my dad with the Atkin's Diet. The idea of cutting out carbs was revolutionary to him (it turned out to just be wheat) and solved a lot of his issues. You see the same thing with MSG. I get a sinus headache from it. Many people have no issue with it. From this, you see people claiming online that someone having a problem with it is imagining it, or that it's just a rumor. Doing an elimination diet changed my life. Every single one of my medical issues (daily sinus issues, digestion issues) was caused by things I was eating. I'm now a huge advocate for people experimenting with food and cutting certain things out. If you consistently feel shitty, it might be the best decision you ever make.

ashtonplayton 9y ago

But ultimately, dogs and humans are innately different. I don't think diet is a good comparison IMO. Just take a look here, you can see that some human foods can be rather dangerous to dogs (https://www.thegoodypet.com/bad-toxic-foods-for-dogs https://www.thegoodypet.com/bad-toxic-foods-for-dogs)

rjsw 9y ago

I think you mean "tenets" not "tenants".

DiabloD3 9y ago
Auto-correct strikes again, and too late to go back and fix it.

dominotw 9y ago

>don't eat grains, don't eat refined sugars, don't eat legumes I eat brownrice with lentils (daal) and chickpeas with yogurt, almost every other day :\. why are these bad?

dbingham 9y ago

The diets themselves are minor snake oil. When you look at the full evidence, few of the various diets really have any benefit over the others: https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/03/science-compared-every-diet-and-the-winner-is-real-food/284595/ https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/03/science-c... When you actually look at the science, the best advice seems to still be Michael Pollan's mantra: "Eat [real] food. Mostly plants. Not too much. [And get good exercise.]"