8 ms·

Puerto Rican Hospitals Battle Life and Death Daily

145 points by curtis 9y ago

HillaryBriss 9y ago
FWIW, the full title of this article is: 112 Degrees With No Water: Puerto Rican Hospitals Battle Life And Death Daily i think it's important to emphasize the temperature difference here because almost every hospital anywhere battles life and death daily
- pvaldes 9y ago
  > No power, no air conditioning, no local water, no local food 46 celsius. Wouldn't be feasible to move at least some of those people to hospitals in the continent to be treated there? Seems a much easier and efficient way. Recovery could be much slower if patiens are keep in the current facilities.
  - maxerickson 9y ago
    I don't know what the extent is, but there have been medical evacuations. I guess it isn't simple though, people may not want to leave the island if they think the hospitals will be back to full service soon and things like that. And also transporting sick people 1,000 miles isn't necessarily trivial.
    - pvaldes 9y ago
      Is an interesting thing that there are aircraft carriers but not hospital carrier ships... would make some things much easier
      - bradyd 9y ago
        There are hospital ships, like the USNS Mercy and Comfort. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USNS_Mercy_(T-AH-19) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USNS_Mercy_(T-AH-19)
      - maxerickson 9y ago
        There is a hospital ship in San Juan: https://www.defense.gov/News/Article/Article/1334349/usns-comfort-arrives-in-puerto-rico-to-aid-maria-relief-efforts/ https://www.defense.gov/News/Article/Article/1334349/usns-co... It'd be interesting to see a real analysis of the difficulties. Among the first things that come to mind is efficient use of personnel. There is need for medical care there, so there is a decision between having medical people available locally and having them transporting patients.
      - gebeeson 9y ago
        My first thought as well - seems as though the USNS Comfort has been on site PR for a couple days now. I know the Navy only has two of those vessels - perhaps a third would be prudent and money well spent?
- curtis 9y ago
  I had intended to use the full title, and only just now realized that I messed it up.
  - copperx 9y ago
    Big time, mind you.
emodendroket 9y ago
It is truly shocking how slow the recovery is.
- toomuchtodo 9y ago
  Something came to mind the other day, when someone was on Hacker News in Puerto Rico mentioning how they were leaving (for Atlanta I think)? What if we just crowdfunded people getting out of PR and helping them get setup in the US? If the US government won't address the humanitarian crisis, yet its still a humanitarian crisis, could we still not address it collectively as private individuals? When a government turns its back on its citizens, its citizens are left to help their fellow citizens. EDIT: Based on the thread response, I suppose we'll just watch everyone suffer in Puerto Rico. Mission Accomplished /s
  - eropple 9y ago
    Scaling problem. If you wanted to get ten thousand people out and settled somewhere else, you'd be talking about close to ten thousand dollars apiece between transit and housing and job search and overhead--we're not crowdfunding a hundred million dollars. BTW, Puerto Rico has about 3.5 million residents. Crowdfunding as a patch is both mathematically unlikely in the short term and socially toxic in the long term--this is why we have governments, they can marshal the proper number of zeroes at the end of the number, it's their job. At least, when led by people who believe it is their mission to actually do their jobs.
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
    - cujic9 9y ago
      Hopefully your last point gets remembered at upcoming elections.
    - othersideofcoin 9y ago
      Isn't it a fallacy to do nothing because you can't do everything for everyone?
rayiner 9y ago
Sadly, we can expect to see more of this into the future. http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/puerto-rico-faces-weeks-electricity-maria-50020984 http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/puerto-rico-fa.... > The territory's $73 billion debt crisis has left agencies like the state power company broke. It abandoned most basic maintenance in recent years, leaving the island subject to regular blackouts. The Federal government can provide disaster relief (and should have done a better job here), but it's job isn't to rebuild local infrastructure (especially infrastructure that was already marginal due to decades of neglect). In that sense, Puerto Rico isn't different from Illinois, Detroit, Flint, or numerous other places where decades of mismanagement have hollowed out the resources of the local government. If a major disaster hit Detroit, I think you'd be surprised at how long it would take to recover.
- astrodust 9y ago
  It is different because it's not a state, can't declare bankruptcy, and has limited options for getting representation. Detroit declared bankruptcy. Puerto Rico cannot.
  - alexanderstears 9y ago
    States can't declare bankruptcy, cities can.
    - voidlogic 9y ago
      States can actually dismiss debt as sovereign entities. That doesn't protect them from the consequences.. for example no one loaning them money in the future. But they can do it.
      - alexanderstears 9y ago
        States can't use federal bankruptcy courts to restructure their obligations and are Constitutionally prohibited from 'impairing the obligation of contracts'. How can U.S States dismiss debt as sovereign entities? They can probably refuse to pay it but the debt holders would have a solid case to get judicial relief.
RandVal30142 9y ago
"Great anger" -Trump, commenting on the divisiveness he sowed using his supporters & the subject of the NFL protests, while ignoring Puerto Rico.
epitomix 9y ago
What's with the "force protection" with assault weapons? What exactly are they protecting from?
- drakonandor 9y ago
  There's always a big looter/violence problem during disasters like this, and it's difficult for police/security to do their jobs at normal efficiency.
- othersideofcoin 9y ago
  Useful to project authority.
dingo_bat 9y ago
Don't all hospitals? It's a place to treat and care for sick people. Obviously some are going to die.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
classicsnoot 9y ago
In regards to people questioning why the US Navy and friends haven't swooped in yet, it is a question of logistics. Contrary to cinematic portrayal, an endeavour of this magnitude requires a ton of planning and legal acrobatics, not to mention hiring and deploying contractors. A worthy read on this subject is Shield and Sword, an account of the US Navy in Gulf War I.
copperx 9y ago
Don't they all? Not criticizing the article, just the title.

145 points by curtis 9y ago

FWIW, the full title of this article is: 112 Degrees With No Water: Puerto Rican Hospitals Battle Life And Death Daily i think it's important to emphasize the temperature difference here because almost every hospital anywhere battles life and death daily

pvaldes 9y ago
> No power, no air conditioning, no local water, no local food 46 celsius. Wouldn't be feasible to move at least some of those people to hospitals in the continent to be treated there? Seems a much easier and efficient way. Recovery could be much slower if patiens are keep in the current facilities.
- maxerickson 9y ago
  I don't know what the extent is, but there have been medical evacuations. I guess it isn't simple though, people may not want to leave the island if they think the hospitals will be back to full service soon and things like that. And also transporting sick people 1,000 miles isn't necessarily trivial.
  - pvaldes 9y ago
    Is an interesting thing that there are aircraft carriers but not hospital carrier ships... would make some things much easier
    - bradyd 9y ago
      There are hospital ships, like the USNS Mercy and Comfort. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USNS_Mercy_(T-AH-19) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USNS_Mercy_(T-AH-19)
    - maxerickson 9y ago
      There is a hospital ship in San Juan: https://www.defense.gov/News/Article/Article/1334349/usns-comfort-arrives-in-puerto-rico-to-aid-maria-relief-efforts/ https://www.defense.gov/News/Article/Article/1334349/usns-co... It'd be interesting to see a real analysis of the difficulties. Among the first things that come to mind is efficient use of personnel. There is need for medical care there, so there is a decision between having medical people available locally and having them transporting patients.
    - gebeeson 9y ago
      My first thought as well - seems as though the USNS Comfort has been on site PR for a couple days now. I know the Navy only has two of those vessels - perhaps a third would be prudent and money well spent?
curtis 9y ago
I had intended to use the full title, and only just now realized that I messed it up.
- copperx 9y ago
  Big time, mind you.

emodendroket 9y ago

It is truly shocking how slow the recovery is.

toomuchtodo 9y ago
Something came to mind the other day, when someone was on Hacker News in Puerto Rico mentioning how they were leaving (for Atlanta I think)? What if we just crowdfunded people getting out of PR and helping them get setup in the US? If the US government won't address the humanitarian crisis, yet its still a humanitarian crisis, could we still not address it collectively as private individuals? When a government turns its back on its citizens, its citizens are left to help their fellow citizens. EDIT: Based on the thread response, I suppose we'll just watch everyone suffer in Puerto Rico. Mission Accomplished /s
- eropple 9y ago
  Scaling problem. If you wanted to get ten thousand people out and settled somewhere else, you'd be talking about close to ten thousand dollars apiece between transit and housing and job search and overhead--we're not crowdfunding a hundred million dollars. BTW, Puerto Rico has about 3.5 million residents. Crowdfunding as a patch is both mathematically unlikely in the short term and socially toxic in the long term--this is why we have governments, they can marshal the proper number of zeroes at the end of the number, it's their job. At least, when led by people who believe it is their mission to actually do their jobs.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - cujic9 9y ago
    Hopefully your last point gets remembered at upcoming elections.
  - othersideofcoin 9y ago
    Isn't it a fallacy to do nothing because you can't do everything for everyone?

rayiner 9y ago

Sadly, we can expect to see more of this into the future. http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/puerto-rico-faces-weeks-electricity-maria-50020984 http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/puerto-rico-fa.... > The territory's $73 billion debt crisis has left agencies like the state power company broke. It abandoned most basic maintenance in recent years, leaving the island subject to regular blackouts. The Federal government can provide disaster relief (and should have done a better job here), but it's job isn't to rebuild local infrastructure (especially infrastructure that was already marginal due to decades of neglect). In that sense, Puerto Rico isn't different from Illinois, Detroit, Flint, or numerous other places where decades of mismanagement have hollowed out the resources of the local government. If a major disaster hit Detroit, I think you'd be surprised at how long it would take to recover.

astrodust 9y ago
It is different because it's not a state, can't declare bankruptcy, and has limited options for getting representation. Detroit declared bankruptcy. Puerto Rico cannot.
- alexanderstears 9y ago
  States can't declare bankruptcy, cities can.
  - voidlogic 9y ago
    States can actually dismiss debt as sovereign entities. That doesn't protect them from the consequences.. for example no one loaning them money in the future. But they can do it.
    - alexanderstears 9y ago
      States can't use federal bankruptcy courts to restructure their obligations and are Constitutionally prohibited from 'impairing the obligation of contracts'. How can U.S States dismiss debt as sovereign entities? They can probably refuse to pay it but the debt holders would have a solid case to get judicial relief.

RandVal30142 9y ago

"Great anger" -Trump, commenting on the divisiveness he sowed using his supporters & the subject of the NFL protests, while ignoring Puerto Rico.

epitomix 9y ago

What's with the "force protection" with assault weapons? What exactly are they protecting from?

drakonandor 9y ago
There's always a big looter/violence problem during disasters like this, and it's difficult for police/security to do their jobs at normal efficiency.
othersideofcoin 9y ago
Useful to project authority.

dingo_bat 9y ago

Don't all hospitals? It's a place to treat and care for sick people. Obviously some are going to die.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

classicsnoot 9y ago

In regards to people questioning why the US Navy and friends haven't swooped in yet, it is a question of logistics. Contrary to cinematic portrayal, an endeavour of this magnitude requires a ton of planning and legal acrobatics, not to mention hiring and deploying contractors. A worthy read on this subject is Shield and Sword, an account of the US Navy in Gulf War I.

copperx 9y ago

Don't they all? Not criticizing the article, just the title.