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Hmm I’d never thought about swearing as a social signifier of freedom. That it shows dominance and that you are “free to do as you like”. What I’d be interested

Hmm I’d never thought about swearing as a social signifier of freedom. That it shows dominance and that you are “free to do as you like”. What I’d be interested in knowing is if people really respond to this psychologically? Is Putin or Trump popularity in part due to people seeing their “I don’t give a fxxk” attitude and being attracted to that?

ehnto 9y ago
Your username adds a particular flavor to your comment! I read it in Comstock's voice from Bioshock Infinite.
irrational 9y ago
My father (who ironically was in the military) always said "Swearing is a sign that you are in the presence of an inferior intellect". I'm not saying I believe it, but having been raised around that attitude I don't perceive swearing as indicating competence.
- comstock 9y ago
  Right, me too, or rather it’s mostly not of much consequence to me. But is a large part of the population different in this regard?
- mslate 9y ago
  Not competence--dominance, or independence
  - irrational 9y ago
    Competence was taken from the article: "Those who use foul language on social networks (such as Twitter) are sending an expensive signal that they are free – and, ironically, competent. You don’t signal competence if you don’t take risks for it - there are few such low risk strategies. So cursing today is a status symbol, just as oligarchs in Moscow wear blue jeans at special events to signal their power."
    - mslate 9y ago
      I interpret that quote as meaning that swearing signals independence, independence signals competence. Competence in this case means the ability to do something genuinely, without strings attached (independent, no hidden motives). This is important in determining a speaker's legitimacy, truthfulness, the provenance of what they are saying.
- dpweb 9y ago
  Theres many reasons to use profanity. While it can signal poor self control or even just poor intelligence or vocabulary, if youre already established well in those ways, can be used to establish intimacy, or im wild or unpredicatable. For instance, Trump saying son of a bitch in a speech I felt was particularly shocking, even by his standards, but totally contrived.
  - JumpCrisscross 9y ago
    > While it can signal poor self control It’s not always useful to be seen as stable or a worthy adversary. Being unpredictable or flying under the radar are legitimate strategies.
- jackvalentine 9y ago
  I don't think swearing is a direct signal, but rather an amplifier of existing signals. Person with other signals indicating dominance -> increase power. Person with other signals indicating lowly stature -> increases indication of lack of self control or weakness. I guess like all human relations it depends is the caveat that applies.
- vacri 9y ago
  Pft. That's an empty slogan to make puritans feel better about themselves. Plenty of smart people swear. They just don't swear to extreme, and control their swearing when they're speaking formally. As a ridiculously obvious example, look at Steve Jobs, darling of this site. Whether you love or loathe him, if you think he was an inferior intellect, you should be questioning your own.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- Broken_Hippo 9y ago
  And the attitude is seriously misguided. I really can't swear in Norwegian, but my native English? Sure thing. And it really limits my expression in Norwegian. The truth is that it takes some skill and knowledge to properly swear. And it has its place: Using other words simply don't get the point across nearly as well and folks can easily misinterpret your meaning (Example: Angry verses creatively displeased or disgusted). Using alternatives (in English things like "fudge") are equally powerful and equally difficult to place in the right context.
  - evincarofautumn 9y ago
    From my experience, swearing seems to be one of the last few things you acquire when getting competent in a foreign language. (Ignoring the fun “Teach me some swears!” pastime of a beginner—they learn the words but not how to use them.) In my time working as a programmer, most of my coworkers have been non-native English speakers, and I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the ones who swear the most are also the most generally proficient in English. Most of those top few are also native speakers of languages that are closely related to English, such as German, Dutch, and French, but curiously, the one who curses the most, and the most proficiently, is Israeli.
- caf 9y ago
  In reality, it seems that fluency in swearing is simply correlated with general fluency. ( http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S038800011400151X http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0388000114... )
- jacobush 9y ago
  Haha, I read that at first as "the person swearing would have come into contact with an inferior intellect" and therefore started swearing. :)
pizza 9y ago
Yeah
_jal 9y ago
I think there's some truth the the 'freedom signifier' thing, but I don't see an inherent link to dominance. I mean, of course it can be a dominance game, in the way that dominance games can be played with pretty much any mechanism you can imagine. But swearing isn't wrestling.
qquark 9y ago
I think some answer might lie in the question of what the speaker is trying to accomplish by swearing. If you think about it, why swearing instead of using standard words ? Putting aside "bad" habits (I put this into quotes because I don't think there is something inherently bad in swearing, it's just a subset of vocabulary data being transmitted to convey information ;) ), I would say that that goal is, subconsciously or not, to increase the emotional impact of what is being said. This will to increase the emotional impact can stem from the speaker's own emotional state, that needs to be expressed through speaking. This might be for lack of better words in one's vocabulary, "accessibility", perceived "style", etc. The person is stating something, that might be originally emotionally weak or neutral, but by swearing, he emphasizes the emotion associated to those words or sentences, and thus has the opportunity to convey an additional specific type of information, in a specific way. I would even say that swearing might be even difficult to replace in some cases where the intended effect is to be casual, or maybe to sound "cool" to a certain crowd while keeping this emotional effect. This might, in a way, be considered "manipulation" if done consciously. And I think this logic applies very well to Trump particularly, because appealing to people emotions seems to be mostly what put him in office. Rather than trying to win by giving the population high logic on the reasons why he should be elected, he is going the other way: make them feel things that put him under the spotlight as a good contender for the position of president ...
monodeldiablo 9y ago
Swearing is an important part of speech, used to communicate all sorts of things: - Trustworthiness - Listeners are more willing to trust someone who curses because careful censorship of one's own speech can come across as calculating and inauthentic. - Involvement - Swearing as an amplifier is often used to communicate emotional involvement. People curse much more about their favorite sports team than just about anything else, for example. - In-group membership - Cursing in a group setting denotes a less formal relationship, which can actually have the effect of encouraging associates to bond more. And, like all language, certain groups have their own curses which, when wielded in the proper context, demonstrate that you "belong". - And yeah, power - Cursing in a formal setting is a great way of challenging convention and asserting authority, demonstrating that one is immune to the typical social consequences for "bad" behavior. Do people really respond to this? I know I do. And I suspect that, if people didn't react as intended, cursing wouldn't be so pervasive in every language.
zeratax 9y ago
Having talked to many trump supporters, lots of them like him for not being PC, in my experience at least.

ehnto 9y ago

Your username adds a particular flavor to your comment! I read it in Comstock's voice from Bioshock Infinite.

irrational 9y ago

My father (who ironically was in the military) always said "Swearing is a sign that you are in the presence of an inferior intellect". I'm not saying I believe it, but having been raised around that attitude I don't perceive swearing as indicating competence.

comstock 9y ago
Right, me too, or rather it’s mostly not of much consequence to me. But is a large part of the population different in this regard?
mslate 9y ago
Not competence--dominance, or independence
- irrational 9y ago
  Competence was taken from the article: "Those who use foul language on social networks (such as Twitter) are sending an expensive signal that they are free – and, ironically, competent. You don’t signal competence if you don’t take risks for it - there are few such low risk strategies. So cursing today is a status symbol, just as oligarchs in Moscow wear blue jeans at special events to signal their power."
  - mslate 9y ago
    I interpret that quote as meaning that swearing signals independence, independence signals competence. Competence in this case means the ability to do something genuinely, without strings attached (independent, no hidden motives). This is important in determining a speaker's legitimacy, truthfulness, the provenance of what they are saying.
dpweb 9y ago
Theres many reasons to use profanity. While it can signal poor self control or even just poor intelligence or vocabulary, if youre already established well in those ways, can be used to establish intimacy, or im wild or unpredicatable. For instance, Trump saying son of a bitch in a speech I felt was particularly shocking, even by his standards, but totally contrived.
- JumpCrisscross 9y ago
  > While it can signal poor self control It’s not always useful to be seen as stable or a worthy adversary. Being unpredictable or flying under the radar are legitimate strategies.
jackvalentine 9y ago
I don't think swearing is a direct signal, but rather an amplifier of existing signals. Person with other signals indicating dominance -> increase power. Person with other signals indicating lowly stature -> increases indication of lack of self control or weakness. I guess like all human relations it depends is the caveat that applies.
vacri 9y ago
Pft. That's an empty slogan to make puritans feel better about themselves. Plenty of smart people swear. They just don't swear to extreme, and control their swearing when they're speaking formally. As a ridiculously obvious example, look at Steve Jobs, darling of this site. Whether you love or loathe him, if you think he was an inferior intellect, you should be questioning your own.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
Broken_Hippo 9y ago
And the attitude is seriously misguided. I really can't swear in Norwegian, but my native English? Sure thing. And it really limits my expression in Norwegian. The truth is that it takes some skill and knowledge to properly swear. And it has its place: Using other words simply don't get the point across nearly as well and folks can easily misinterpret your meaning (Example: Angry verses creatively displeased or disgusted). Using alternatives (in English things like "fudge") are equally powerful and equally difficult to place in the right context.
- evincarofautumn 9y ago
  From my experience, swearing seems to be one of the last few things you acquire when getting competent in a foreign language. (Ignoring the fun “Teach me some swears!” pastime of a beginner—they learn the words but not how to use them.) In my time working as a programmer, most of my coworkers have been non-native English speakers, and I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the ones who swear the most are also the most generally proficient in English. Most of those top few are also native speakers of languages that are closely related to English, such as German, Dutch, and French, but curiously, the one who curses the most, and the most proficiently, is Israeli.
caf 9y ago
In reality, it seems that fluency in swearing is simply correlated with general fluency. ( http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S038800011400151X http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0388000114... )
jacobush 9y ago
Haha, I read that at first as "the person swearing would have come into contact with an inferior intellect" and therefore started swearing. :)

pizza 9y ago

Yeah

_jal 9y ago

I think there's some truth the the 'freedom signifier' thing, but I don't see an inherent link to dominance. I mean, of course it can be a dominance game, in the way that dominance games can be played with pretty much any mechanism you can imagine. But swearing isn't wrestling.

qquark 9y ago

I think some answer might lie in the question of what the speaker is trying to accomplish by swearing. If you think about it, why swearing instead of using standard words ? Putting aside "bad" habits (I put this into quotes because I don't think there is something inherently bad in swearing, it's just a subset of vocabulary data being transmitted to convey information ;) ), I would say that that goal is, subconsciously or not, to increase the emotional impact of what is being said. This will to increase the emotional impact can stem from the speaker's own emotional state, that needs to be expressed through speaking. This might be for lack of better words in one's vocabulary, "accessibility", perceived "style", etc. The person is stating something, that might be originally emotionally weak or neutral, but by swearing, he emphasizes the emotion associated to those words or sentences, and thus has the opportunity to convey an additional specific type of information, in a specific way. I would even say that swearing might be even difficult to replace in some cases where the intended effect is to be casual, or maybe to sound "cool" to a certain crowd while keeping this emotional effect. This might, in a way, be considered "manipulation" if done consciously. And I think this logic applies very well to Trump particularly, because appealing to people emotions seems to be mostly what put him in office. Rather than trying to win by giving the population high logic on the reasons why he should be elected, he is going the other way: make them feel things that put him under the spotlight as a good contender for the position of president ...

monodeldiablo 9y ago

Swearing is an important part of speech, used to communicate all sorts of things: - Trustworthiness - Listeners are more willing to trust someone who curses because careful censorship of one's own speech can come across as calculating and inauthentic. - Involvement - Swearing as an amplifier is often used to communicate emotional involvement. People curse much more about their favorite sports team than just about anything else, for example. - In-group membership - Cursing in a group setting denotes a less formal relationship, which can actually have the effect of encouraging associates to bond more. And, like all language, certain groups have their own curses which, when wielded in the proper context, demonstrate that you "belong". - And yeah, power - Cursing in a formal setting is a great way of challenging convention and asserting authority, demonstrating that one is immune to the typical social consequences for "bad" behavior. Do people really respond to this? I know I do. And I suspect that, if people didn't react as intended, cursing wouldn't be so pervasive in every language.

zeratax 9y ago

Having talked to many trump supporters, lots of them like him for not being PC, in my experience at least.